Chico: I tell you What Check Out Bad Boy Lawnmowers ! I have just checked them out and for the Price you are getting a Commercial Grade Unit "Push Mower" for the
Price of a Retail Homeowner Unit . I wish I was close to an American Dealer ...I would be 1st in Line . Yeah you could Buy a Toro or other Top End Unit and Probably be back on the Forum Complaiing about "Their not Like They Use To Be ?"

Thanks e ..

I just looked at their site and seen the specs and they are impressive compare to some of the lawn mowers I have been looking into. However, I can't find any feedback on them from actual owners and that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Thanks and I will keep looking for actual reviews.

Chico : Your absolutely right in your assumption , I'am the same from Missouri philosophy . I would love to Demo one myself . I would imagine there must be a consumer or buyers report somewhere but I have not identified any to-date . Good Luck on your Search !

Yeah in the meanwhile I'm just looking to purchase one in HomeDepot, Lowels or Ace - Any recommendationS?

Any Toro / Cub Cadet Product Middle of the Road to High End will Suffice depending on what you are looking for . If you go Self Propelled the Rear Wheel Drive Models have superior drive reportedly , I have used a Front heel Drive Sears Product which was very maneuverable but lacked the traction on steep uphills. Like I said I have read mixed reviews on both , their commercial grade units are rather pricey but you only get what you pay for .

I would suggest you look for a local Power Equipment dealer for a better grade of lawnmower models. I just went to a big box store and the Toros and John Deeres were the lowest end models without many extra options. Plus the employee in that dept didn't know much about any of them. I would rather spend a bit more and get something that is easier to use and will last longer than spend money on something with lots of plastic that falls apart quickly

If $400.00 is your budget stretch it a bit and buy a Toro Super Recycler for just under $500.00 It is a better design than the box store models.

Rfb: Toro put out a Top Shelf Product in their Commercial Line. When you go to Box Stores you do not find the better models whether its Husky Chainsaws or Toro Lawnmowers !

re: "I would suggest you look for a local Power Equipment dealer for a better grade of lawnmower models. I just went to a big box store and the Toros and John Deeres were the lowest end models without many extra options. "

What extra optionas are you looking for? I know my toro dealer sold me the PP years ago, it differed from what is in HD in that it had an aluminum deck and better wheels....it also cost $200 more than the steel one at HD. If thats in your budget, I'd go with that. I love my PP.

Go to SearsYardGuru.com It will ask you questions about your lawn and then give you recommendations. There is also the ability to compare mowers with the competition and their are reviews to each product. It will at least give you a starting point. Good luck

Here is a link that might be useful: YardGuru

Just get the Toro Recycler with PP.$350.00 I got one in 1999 and have only done oil changes yearly,new plug and air filter every 2 years and it still starts on the first pull.

I think the Honda mowers are very nice, but I've never owned one. You may also want to consider the Snapper, which is just as pricey as the Honda and built to last forever. I own the Snapper and it has a design that is tried and true, but less flexible than the Honda in my opinion.

The Snapper comes with a 2-Blade mulching system (AKA the Ninja Blade) similar to the Honda, but you have to change out the blade to use it. Like I said, itÂs less flexible but has fewer gimmicks in the design. I have to say, I prefer to mulch and have NEVER seen a better mulch cut than with the Snapper. It can mulch more grass to a finer pulp than anything else, other than possibly the Honda, which I donÂt know about from direct experience.

If your priority is raw power and something that is built like a tank, the Snapper is ideal. The variable speed real wheel drive mechanism allows you to jog behind the mower if you want to save time with exercise. I'm not kidding; it's really pretty fast. When I purchased the Snapper, I thought it was heavy, but I think the Honda is actually heavier. The mechanism to engage the belt drive train is much easier than the thumb controls with the Honda.

Regarding parts, I believe the Snapper is going to cost less over time. The design hasnÂt changed a great deal in the last 20 years, but the Honda seems to be updated quite regularly with new flashy things. With mowers, I prefer to keep it simple because the more complex, the more chance it will break and the parts will be higher when it does break.

However the Honda deserves some accolades and may be preferable if you want lower emission, less noise, and more gadgets that offer consumer friendly benefits, (girl friendly I mean  no IÂm just kidding!).

In my opinion, these are the 2 best options. Yes, they are pricey, but both will pay for themselves in the first season and will last decades. With both options, I would recommend the overhead valve engine design. Don't know about Bad Boy since I probably live in the wrong part of the country for these.

I failed to mention the Toro. It's a good mower because I owned one (the equivalent of the Super Recycler, not the version made for a big box retail outfit).

The weakness with the Toro is the cable and rear wheel drive mechanism. The cable controls would always wear out and break. I would splice it with heavy gauge wire four or five times before I would replace it. But this required several adjustments to the splice before it was correct. When I replaced it (2 times in 10 years), the part was priced very high and then the part was discontinued. Back to splicing I guess.

Anyway, it's a good mower for less than the Snapper or Honda, but frustrating when a simple cable keeps causing problems with an expensive mower.

PS, let me know if you decide on the Honda and how it works out for you.

"The weakness with the Toro is the cable and rear wheel drive mechanism. The cable controls would always wear out and break."

Huh??? This is the first I have heard of this problem on Toro mowers. I'm trying to conceive how you could wear through over two control cables in 10 years.

Other than the control cable and rear wheel drive system the Toro is a fine mower. But yes, the control cables are not worthy of the price charged for this mower. The drive cable only lasts five years maximum. Also, the drive train is inferior to either the Snapper or the Honda. I would have to help the Toro going up a slope or suffer the consequences of the self propel clutch drive sticking when you try to pull backward. I saw another user compare this Toro phenomenon to pulling a dead cow.

With the Snapper, the mower pulls you along instead of you pushing in thick grass or up a slope. I also think the personal pace system is a girl-friendly marketing gimmick that will eventually fail the test of time. With the Snapper I can adjust the drive to whatever speed while in motion. Honda refers to theirs as Hydrostatic drive, but itÂs the same principle. And thereÂs no resistance with reversing the mower when the drive is not engaged.

The Toro requires you to push the mower forward after you disengage the drive, but it doesnÂt always work. Sometimes it stays engaged. To troubleshoot the problem Toro recommends that you make sure there is adequate grease in the rear wheel gears, but that wasn't the problem in the first place. I guess it is just a design flaw. That's why the commercial crews down South stick with a Snapper walk behind.

I have the Bad Boy mower you mention, it is the same mower as the John Deere JS46, and is without a doubt the best mower I have owned. I especially like the self-propel, similar to Personal Pace but you have a lever to control the speed. It is a beast of a mower, plenty of power, mulches great, beautiful cut. I found mine at Tractor Supply on a markdown to 299 dollars, I couldnt walk away from it.

Snuffy: I just posted you on another Thread ! My Daughter just called and located a Dealer just South of her in Michigan and the Caster Wheeled Unit is also on Sale for
$100.00 off list . I will be calling Monday to confirm Mulching availability and Horse Power Rating 7.5 vs Torgue Rating 8.75 . TSC at her location apparently does not offer
Badboys currently ? How do you like the Self Propelled Belt Drive any unusual wear yet to the tires or belt ?

After researching for hours and days, i finally Just bought a Honda HRX 217 vka for $600 minus 10% = $540 -at HD...it was close between the Honda and the toro super recycler...but the Honda quality reputation and better engine made my decision

I had a similar experience to slipshod...a toro recycler that lasted 11 years but had cable problems and some other minor issues..overall though it was a good mower.

My new hrx is a very good mower, easy to use, powerful, fantastic mulcher with the twin blades, and the legendary Honda reliability and quality.... You would love this mower...it actually makes mowing more fun.

My advice is to spend an extra $140(find a 10% coupon) and get the Honda. An extra $140 for a mower that will probably last you 15 years is worth it.

slipshoddon-Do not know where you get your info,in your dreams maybe.I have a Toro bought in 1999.Everything is original,even the drive cable that you say lasts 5 years max.Only thing I change is oil,air filter and spark plug.And if you grab the crossbar under the PP handle and push the mower ahead a couple inches,it unlocks the drive system and pull backwards just fine."When all else fails,Read the directions"

gorper - you and I probably have the same toro recycler, i bought mine in 99 as well...but i had similar problem to slipshod with my cables..twice having problems in 11 years...overall though, it was a good mower for 11 years.

regarding the drive system and the problem with backing up the mower:

1. yes, it is simple to just push the mower forward to disengage the drive system, and then it will pull back normally.

BUT

a. should you really have to do that? (I don't have to do that with my new Honda and that has been a nice change)

b. there are so many times when mowing that you mow up to something like a wall or tree or landscaping, where you can't simply just push it forward several inches because there's an immovable object in the way....so then you have to drag it back.

it's not a huge deal, because you do learn to adapt to the problem(release early) so that it occurs less often.

"Other than the control cable and rear wheel drive system the Toro is a fine mower. But yes, the control cables are not worthy of the price charged for this mower. The drive cable only lasts five years maximum. Also, the drive train is inferior to either the Snapper or the Honda. I would have to help the Toro going up a slope or suffer the consequences of the self propel clutch drive sticking when you try to pull backward."

Where is the support for this stuff??? I have never heard of cables wearing out in five years on Toro or any other consumer mower. If you had to help the Toro up the hill it was either because you were using the entry level front wheel drive machine or the drive belt needed adjusting. There is no clutch on Peronal Pace - only a drive belt that is tightened and loosened with a pulley setup.

Golfnbrian, good choice on the Honda. I think the extra money spent will be well worth it in the long run. I see you've had an issue with the Toro rear-wheel drive mower too. Like I said it's not a bad mower, but I agree with your comment below:

a. Should you really have to do that? (I don't have to do that with my new Honda and that has been a nice change)

I don't have to do it with my Snapper either. But with the Toro on many occasions I was up against a fence or swing set and couldn't push the mower forward to release the drive. You just have to grin and pull (or sweat and pull in my case).

I live in a warm climate with a long growing season. Maybe the cables don't wear out as quickly when the grass doesnÂt grow as fast or for as many months as it does here.

At any rate, the Honda is a top-notch mower.

I havent noticed any unusual wear to the belt or wheels, but then again I havent had it very long at all. It seems to be basically the same setup as Toro's personal pace or lawn boys easy stride in that speed is controlled through belt tension. Like the lawn boy, you may have to let it "coast" before backing it up, though it does seem to be less noticeable that the easy stride on the lawnboy 10550 it is replacing. I do not think you will be disappointed with the mower at all, though I personally do not care for caster wheels. Mine has the fixed wheels.

Roadbike...obviously there are two of us with cable issues.

Anyway, I agree with u roadbike about upgrading to a super rec from the reg recycler...def worth the extra $100 for cast alum, better muching, warranty, free sharpening...etc.

I had the same thought process, but took it $40 further and bot the Honda hrx 217 for $600 less10% off..$540

By the way, for anybody that doesn't know..u can buy a HD 10 % off coupon for $3 on ebay...worked for me

I would look very close at the "fit and finish" on whatever mower you want to buy. I spent about 20 minutes at Sears (could not get any help either!), then again at Honda, (I knew more about their mowers than they did), and ended up at a Tora dealer and bought the 20092. I liked the zerk fittings on the rear wheels, little things about the mower. It was 529 dollars and more than I wanted to spend but I like the 5 year warranty and good reviews. I was using a reel mower so this is a big improvement. One side note. The Toro dealer had a vintage 1950's Lawnboy mower...what a tank!!!..