Today's synthetic blend oils are miles ahead of the LB oil, so don't be too concerned about it. Since these oils are more concentrated, they don't mix as readily as the old 'thin' LB oil, so you have to pay attention when filling your gas can - put the oil in first, add some gas, agitate, add more gas, agitate then complete the fill. Shake the can hard after capping and before dispensing each time.
The ratio: most of these oils are calibrated for 50:1, but in your position I would be inclined to go no higher than 40:1, or 3.2 oz oil to 1 gal gas. You could go ahead and make it 32:1 (8 oz/2 gal) if you wish without hurting anything. Even then, you'll probably see less smoke than before and it'll run a lot cleaner. Echo products are very highly regarded, and I would run Echo oil without concern.

I use the Echo 2 cycle synthetic for my Boy - works great (also have an Echo trimmer).

In general the synthetics can safely be run closer to 40:1 (or higher) - that is about what I run all my 2 cycles on (the trimmer, a V-engine Boy and a Tecumseh Snow King snowblower). I get less mess, smoke and carbon buildup from the Echo oil for sure.

I would say any synthetic 2 cycle oil is the way to go vs. the LB oil.

I've been running some oil tests this summer and was very impressed by the cheapest oil I could find locally. It was run in my mothers 7351 all summer and then checked for carbon deposits this fall. Everything looked great. The oil was Quaker State 2 cycle oil. My local Menards carries it for $2.68 a quart. Wal-Mart's Super Tech isn't that cheap by the gallon. Oil is your engines life blood. Run a good quality brand name oil. Buy it by the quart for better value and mix it 32:1 like Lawnboy instructs. This will give you better ring sealing and cooler running. Happy mowing.

thanks, I'll give the echo oil a try.

http://www.amazon.com/Lawn-Boy-89932-4-Ounce-2-Cycle/dp/B000BXOGM4

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(xgm0dm45cm4ekl55usyyqxv4)/productDetails.aspx?SKU=7006646

The Lowes and HD sell LB oil by me. I still use LB oil. Why, I like the metal can, the nostalgia, and the smell. And my LBs are running after 30 plus years, so it works. My neighbors say it smells like roasted marshmellows when the wind blows their way, and that is priceless.

AND LB Oil today is not the LB oil of 20 years ago.

Walt Conner

I use full synthetic oil like Amsoil. Synthetic supposed to be burning even cleaner. Heard a lot of good things about, Amsoil, Stihl Ultra( white bottle) and If you can still get it, Mobil 2T.

There has been some debate on other sites about the constant use of synthetic oils causing glazing of the cylinder of two stroke engines. I'm not sure if it's true or not but here is a good article that talks about it.

Here is a link that might be useful: About 2T oils

I've been using Mobil 2T in my string trimmer , leaf blower & Toro snow thrower for 2 years and love it...they seem to run better and with less smoke & smell. Also I use Mobil 1 in my JD LT.

I think it is beyond debate that synthetic oil is better all around. How much I don't know. I love my equipments so I am willing to pay a little more.

I hate the smell of Mobil 2T!!! I like Amsoil because it smells better. Echo would be my second choice.

I read good things about Penzoil cheap 2 cycle oil. Test show it is very good. It is not synthetic, nor it is rated by Jaso and SAE.

"I think it is beyond debate that synthetic oil is better all around."

Did you read the article I linked to?

Too many people having good result, go to LS and read. Do a search on Mobil 2T, Amsoil and Stihl Ultra. Each comments are not scientific, but the totality give you a very good indication. Those are hundreds of testements.

The test was done by Legend people!!! You can find Stihl Ultra test data also!!! Until a total independent lab perform the test, I would not take it that serious.

I don't think the issue is wear, it is the deposits issue where the synthetic shine. Castor oil do a superior job in lubrication, but the deposit is going to kill the engine. If you open some of the older heavily used glow engines that still have good compression. The ball bearing inside usually gummed stiff by deposits and not even turning. I bought a few older OS and K&B engines on ebay, they all were like this. I still have them here!!!

I had opened an Echo SRM260 engine. One ring was glued into the piston by deposit!!!!

All the Echo and Shindaiwa and Redmax etc. oil do a great job in lubricating, but there are complains on carboning up the engines.

I do read a lot of articles on this issue. Actually if go to "Bob the oil man" or something like that, they dadicates a whole section on oil!!!

I forgot to mention. When Stihl first came out with the 4Mix engine, a lot of them had drop valve problem relate to deposit built up on the valves and drop into the combussion chamber and totalled the engine. This was particularly true for the BR600 blower. They actually had to come out with the Stihl Ultra full synthetic oil and instructed people to use it exclusively on those 4Mix engine. The problem was since greatly reduced. People using Amsoil get the same result. This was very well documented. Just go to LS and do a search.

I've done tons of research and and been to the sites you state. I'm just saying that there are other debates and other opinions. I love amsoil saber and Klotz Benol. I ran Benol in my C21ZPN all summer without having the deposits you claim will kill my engine.

There are good non synthetic oil. Penzoil 2 cycle air cool is one of them. There was a test on deposit by a RC modeler on deposit with different oil including Amsoil, Mobil 2T, Amsoil etc. Penzoil came out first. He is total independent. I put more weight on his testing than the company sponsored ones.

This kind of debate has been going on, I was one of those people two years ago!!! All good oil are good enough.

After reading all the information and opinions that are on the net, I came to the conclusion that I had to do my own tests. This summer, I have run 10 different Lawnboy 2 stroke mowers on 10 different 2 stroke oils after cleaning the exhaust ports at the beginning of the summer. At the end of the summer, I found that none of the oils gave me any real problems and all performed well except for the castor based oil used in my C21ZPN. A Klotz engineer told me that castor oil would be excellent in my mowers but that 32:1 was too rich and I should start at 40:1 and adjust from there. I wanted all my tests to be at 32:1 so that's what I used. He was correct. I had excess deposits in the exhaust with the castor based oil but none of the gummy residue that plagued castors of the past. I'm now running 40:1 in the C21ZPN but don't have enough run time to give results. The surprise was with the cheapest oil I could find. Quaker State 2 cycle from Menards at $2.68 a quart. It mowed all summer in my mothers 7251 with no deposits and excellent performance. If you want to know what other oils I've been testing just ask.

A lot of people will be thanking you for this.

I think instead of suggesting more oil. You can test the operating temperature vs oil mix ratio without adjusting the carb. There was a test the the person test with one or two oil mix with the same type of gas but using 50:1, 40:1 and 32:1. The big finding is the temperation consistencely show a little higher going from 50:1 to 40:1. Not much higher, just about 5 degrees. But going to 32:1 make the temperature rise even higher. The result show people should not use more than 40:1. Not body verify this test. If you can do this test, you can support or dispute the result. For once and for all end the oil ratio debate. Also look at the deposit amount between the different oil ratio. Important not to adjust the carb for different ratio.

I tend to believe most JASO or SAE rated oil are close enough, synthetic or not, difference would be small. What is the difference whether the engine last 2000 hours vs 2200 hours?!!!

I think the person that test the temperature measure the exhaust port, that would mean he had to remove the muffler. I don't think it is a good idea. This will change the back pressure and change how the engine operate. I think using a temperature probe measure at the exact same spot, maybe with a touch of high temperature bearing greese for better heat conduction to give better reading. Maybe on the top of the cylinder.

I thank you for many people on this site and other. You can publish the data. I tell you, there are only two individual that I could find those days, test that was not done by oil company.

I can never understand the temperature rise for 32:1 ratio. I don't believe that little oil will change the air fuel ratio. Might be the heat generated by burning of oil.

There is where we have different information. I have read a lot of statements where professional chainsaw men are running 40:1 mix in their 50:1 chainsaws. They are claiming cooler running and better horsepower due to a better ring seal from the richer mix. Who knows? I have heard from lots of other sources that richer mix means better ring seal and higher hp but never heard of the higher temperatures. Just don't run too rich a mix to cause deposits. Once again, I can't prove this either way.

Personally, I have no good way to measure temperature and no thermometer that I would trust for accurate enough measurements. Also, controlling ambient temperature and humidity would be beyond my ability to run accurate enough tests to satisfy my demands. I will continue to run my mowers in real world use and check deposits, gumming, piston scoring and compression and see what happens. This will take some time though and working 52 hours a week doesn't help.

I have no prove on temperature rise with more oil, don't even make sense to me. But there was a thread on either Arborist site under Chainsaw or LS. I forgot, I did try to look for it and I can't. It's been at least two year ago.

ok, bringing this one back from the dead...

I have used the echo oil for a few mows and it seems fine. I mixed it at 32:1 and can't say it smoked more or less than the LB oil. The only bad thing about the echo oil is the price- which is outrageous. If you are just using it in a trimmer/blower at your house, it's not a biggie as a container will last a long time, but I can't see spending $30 on oil to mow my lawn for a season on oil at $18/qt- that's 4X what Mobil 1 4 cycle oil costs.

Has anyone used the homelite 2 cycle oil? it was a few bucks cheaper at HD than the echo.

So, I guess I will try either the pennzoil or q state 2 cycle next if I can find it locally.

'There is where we have different information. I have read a lot of statements where professional chainsaw men are running 40:1 mix in their 50:1 chainsaws. They are claiming cooler running and better horsepower due to a better ring seal from the richer mix. Who knows? I have heard from lots of other sources that richer mix means better ring seal and higher hp but never heard of the higher temperatures. Just don't run too rich a mix to cause deposits. Once again, I can't prove this either way.
Personally, I have no good way to measure temperature and no thermometer that I would trust for accurate enough measurements. Also, controlling ambient temperature and humidity would be beyond my ability to run accurate enough tests to satisfy my demands. I will continue to run my mowers in real world use and check deposits, gumming, piston scoring and compression and see what happens. This will take some time though and working 52 hours a week doesn't help.'

You confuse the issue by referring to a lower-ratio fuel/oil mix as 'richer'. The term 'rich' must be reserved for a lower ratio air/fuel mix. This of course gets more complicated with the 2-cycle since a richer fuel mix also means more oil, regardless of fuel/oil ratio, but you still can't call a lower fuel/oil ratio 'richer' without clouding the issue.

That's true Saxman. I'm referring to a greater oil to gas ratio as being "richer". You make a good point.

As to you steve p, go to Autozone, Pep Boys, Advance or O'Reilly's and look and see what they have in 2 cycle oil by the quart. My Autozone has Valvolene, my Pep Boys has Castrol, my O'Reilly's has Lucas. I can't remember what Advance has. My local Wal-Mart has Pennzoil Marine Plus during boating season and I have had good luck with it. Much more cost effective by the quart no matter what you buy. Good luck.

I have Lawn Boy oil available.

I have a 1998 Lawn-Boy 2-stroke Dura motor, I used the recommended Lawn-Boy oil at a 32:1 ratio up until 2 years ago, when the Lawn-Boy got too expensive up here. I run Castrol Super 2-stroke in all my equipment(Stihl,Lawnboy). I have had no complaints yet. Both of my manuals recommend Lawn-Boy, and Stihl OR a high-quality name brand if the manfacturer's oil is not available. However, NEVER use 2-strok outboard motor oil, as this oil is used for water-cooled 2-strokes, and can't handle the higher heat of air-cooled 2-srokes. Happy mowing!

"Marine Plus during boating season and I have had good luck with it."

My new (read expensive) Stihl says just as above, never use marine oil and I sure as heck am not going to gamble on it.

"I have Lawn Boy oil available."

How much, price that is?

Walt Conner
wconner5 at verizon dot net

Never Use Marine Grade Oil within a Air-Cooled Engine and not expect Bad things !

"Never Use Marine Grade Oil within a Air-Cooled Engine and not expect Bad things!"

Lawnboy 2 cycle lawnmower engines are considered marine grade engines and Lawnboy recommends TCW-3 (which is a marine grade) oil to be used.

Orange:
Never use TC-W3 on Aircooled Equipment . I used it on numerous Outboards Great Marine Grade but not going near my Air-cooled does not meet the Specification Friend !

Note: I suppose I should have clarified "for extended usage"

ewalk.

Please read any Lawnboy 2 cycle mower manual. It states clearly that you are to use TCW-3 oil. I never use it in my other air cooled stuff but you are dead wrong about Lawnboy mowers.

Here is the quote straight from page 8 of my 2003 10424 Lawnboy manual.

"Do not use automotive oil (i.e., SAE 30 or
10W30), a two-cycle oil that is not NMMA
TCW III-certified, or a fuel mixed at the wrong
gasoline/oil ratio. This can cause engine damage not
covered under the Lawn-Boy warranty."

Orange: I won't argue your Operator's Manual it may well say what you have indicated. Probably why LB has had such a poor hitory within early crankshaft failures and overheating issues in the last 5-10 yrs. I had a LB-2stroke also back in the mid 80's (1980-83) can't recall exactly . I used Lawnboy Oil exclusively , but not TCW-3 it was proper API-TC Rated for Air-Cooled Engines. Any marine Grade Oil has Heavier Base Oil Content Rating due to the inherent load demands of a Marine Application (Constant High Speed Operation) followed by extended Idle . This heavier viscosity along with rust inhibitor's and dispersant's for ash control (since Marine grade Oils do not have detergents for carbon reduction) wreak havoc within Higher Operating Temperature Air-Cooled Engines. Believe me I have been involved within Racing Air-cooled vehicle and have witnessed 1st hand the carbon fouling and scuffed pistons due to Inferior Specifications Rated Marine Oils. I agree that many Manufacturers offer and may even recommend their TC-W3 Rated Oils for A/C Applications , but believe me long term it's a Bad Decision. Now Let's get real and go Synthetic rather than what I use to use (Klotz R) in my Racing Days a Caster Blended Mineral Grade . But then Technology has come a long way from then with Amsoil & Sabre etc. lol . Anyhow use the TC-W3 in your LB if you wish , I know that Rotax insists on only API-TC in their Air-Cooled Equipment and they are Worlds Leading Manufacturer !

All Lawnboys from at least the D600 series on require TCW-3 oil to keep the warranty valid. I frequent other forums that cater to mostly Lawnboy 2 cycles and most have decades old engines that have run marine oil in them without problems. Outboard Marine Company, the maker of the Lawnboy engine was well aware of the lubrication requirements and was a marine company. If you check the Lawnboy manuals of the D, V, E and F series engines, they all recommend the same oil. I agree with you on the point of there being better oils out there today but to say that marine oil of the type recommended by the OEM is bad for the engine is just a matter of you not knowing what you're talking about. Being stubborn doesn't make you correct.

Been running LBs for about 40 years, maybe longer. For many years, I used plain old SAE30 wt. motor oil for my mix, no failures, more carbon I am sure. In 80s, I did maintenance work for commercial lawn service which used exclusively LBs. They were constantly blowing engines. I finally asked what oil they were using in mix, some cheap off brand. I told them use LB oil or find someone else to maintain mowers. They did and mostly put a stop to blown engines. They were using "summer" help.

I have now been using LB oil for probably over 30 yrs. That said, and as said above, I sure as heck am not going to gamble my new $$$ Stihl on anything other than what they said including 89 octane gas which I never used in LBs AND NO MARINE OIL.

Walt Conner

I totally agree Walt. Never use TCW-3 oil in anything air cooled that runs at high RPM, like your Stihl. Lawnboys are never supposed to run above about 3350rpm. Due to this, OMC determined that TCW-3 oil was more than sufficient for the Lawnboy 2 cycle engine. Too many people get caught up with the words "outboard" and "marine". These are meaningless words as long as you pay attention to the ratings, be it JASO, NMMA or whomever. The engine manufacturer would never validate a warranty with an oil that wasn't up to standards. If TCW-3 standards are what Lawnboy says are good enough, then good oils that meet this standard will work fine over the long haul. It's been proven for decades. Once again, Lawnboys are the only air cooled engines I would run this in because the OEM says so. Running the cheapest oil you can find is never a good idea. I run better oil in most all of my 13 lawnboys, but saying that TCW-3 is bad for them is just plain misinformation.

Orange : Not Stubborn at all just knowledgeable within Proper Oil Specifications. You have 13 LB which run ok on Marine Grade Oil then that's all that matters to you . I have run Snowmobiles , Snow-blowers , Chainsaws , Motorcycles , Outboards and Inboards and frequently upgrade my Oil Specifications accordingly to the Best (Better than Suggest Manufacturer Grade). I also repair and rebuilt the above for numerous friends and clients for over 30 yrs. I guess that's why have Chainsaws and Lawnmowers and Snow-blowers that never quit due to improper maintenance or inferior lubrication , because I have seen the results 1st hand.I further understand that the TC-W3 Specs which are Administrated from the NMMA have been recently amended , however that has do with the reduction in dispersant additive within the oil for anti fouling due to moisture intrusion from thermal cycles or leaking seals . It had nothing to due with the adding a detergent to Reduce Carbon which is a Proponent your Marine grade oil will not provide your air-cooled unit. Any amount of carbon 0.40 fouling on a Piston Dome can cause rapid failure . This is why Old Mineral oils required routine Engine Top End De-carbonizing back in the Day . As I said I don't Rely on a Manufacturer who wishs for eventual unit replacement to Guide my Oil Selection . The Oil I use is a little more expensive but I feel it's warranted do to the Application of Use and the Additives Required. You have a right to your opinion but I would suggest you review the Most Recent Oil Specifications Guide on Marine vs Air-Cooled Engine Recommendations and Not Minimum Standards of one Manufacturer . Anyhow Good Luck with your Lawnmowers Bro ! I enjoyed the discussion :)

ewalk: You keep throwing in chainsaws, motorcycles and other high RPM engines into this discussion. I have never said that they apply. This is strickly for Lawnboy 2 cycle engines and the oils that they are warranted to use. I don't use TCW-3 oil in all my lawnboys but I see very little, if any difference in the ones running Pennzoil Marine vs the ones running Maxima Super M, Bel-Ray MC1 or Klotz Super Techiplate. I do regular checks and compression tests and there is not enough difference in these tough cast iron bores to worry about. That said, I would NEVER run the TCW-3 in my chainsaw, blower or trimmer. We'll just agree to disagree but Lawnboy's are not damaged by TCW-3 oil, unless you call normal wear damage.

Orange " I respect your experience within the LB Saga Bro . This Oil Debate has been going on for over 2 yrs with your active participation with various other forum members . I choose not to Operate any air=cooled unit with an oil that does not prevent choking . TCW-3 Oils do not have Detergent Additives which prevent Carbon within Air-Cooled Motors. That's my Issue . But I agree that if you are not experiencing any excessive carbon fouling then your oil is doing it job apparently . I don't understand why unless you are using fuel additives for that purpose ? Anyhow sorry we can't agree on this one but heck of a debate none the less Bro . Enjoy Your LB their few and far between hearabouts epsecially 2-strokes Mine lasted for over 15 yrs until the crank met a immovable object lol :)

Orangedot, What are the other forums you frequent that cater mostly to Lawn Boy 2-Cycles?

MTF, mylawnmowerforum and mylawnboyforum.

I use echo oil,2 different mixes,and i put in a cap or 2 of sea foam and let the sea foam decarb as i mow.

Similiar approach of Orangedot . Echo oil is a premium oil also .

That's a good recipe lawnboy_fan. I use Seafoam in the first and last tanks of the season and run MMO all year long. MMO is much more cost effective and it's added lubricating ability helps offset the problems with ethanol laced fuels.

Do I hear a Round of Agent Orange for the House !

I see so many people challenged by 2-cycle oil mix ratios, oil products, etc....and it behooved me to post this response to all previous inquires, and to stem any further silly questions. I am a licensed small engine mechanic with 30 years of hands on experience, and a Lawn Boy collector. There is no such thing as a special oil. If you collect the old style green canned oil, just go on eBay; its sold to this day, from a single can to a case. Next, ALL 2-cycle equip't can be fueled from a single can. Just squirt a tube of Optimol Synthetic Oil into a 1-gallon container. NO engine has failed to do its job with synthetic lubes....

Maybe you should also read your manual, and pull your muffler........its the other end of the throttle/choke chain.

Finally, if you are one of those guys with 14 gas cans, marked with a marker, and want to maintain a slew of different 2-cycle ratios.......you are a putz. The mix is only good for 30 days.......simply mix the cheapest 2-cycle oil you can find a ACE, at 32:1. Your units with either smoke or scream.

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