It looks like Virginia creeper possibly?

one of the buckeyes? Not familiar with these trees - we have chestnuts (aesculus and castanea) in the UK.

chicago311: Definitely not Virginia creeper (I'm up to my eyeballs in Virginia creeper so I know it well). This plant is upright and shrubby and the leaves are different.

campanula: Maybe Aesculus parviflora (Bottlebrush Buckeye)? What bothers me is that the leaves seem to be alternate coming up the stem - they're just clustered at the top. Is this normal for a young buckeye?

Claire

Buckeyes seem to have palmately-divided leaves from the very beginning:

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/394698354812770628/

An image search for "buckeye seedling" shows more examples.

Doesn't look like an Aesculus to me. What about Asimina triloba, American Papaw? Not a tree I've ever seen myself.

missingtheobvious: Doesn't look like the buckeye images.

floral_uk: I hope it's a Pawpaw - that always sounds a little mythical to me. I just went out to see what's left after the high winds we've been having but all the leaves are blown off and I can't be sure which is which in the piles around it.

While I was out there a neighbor came by and he says he's seen pawpaws in the woods, although they're rare, and the fall color is similar to what I have/had.

Thanks!
Claire

This post was edited by claire on Sun, Nov 2, 14 at 11:35

I, too, was thinking Paw Paw. The leaves look similar to mine.

Thanks, babcia, this is sounding like a volunteer I definitely want to keep.

Claire

Sorry Claire, but your volunteer isn't a papaw... it's a hickory, most likely a pignut hickory which is identified by the five leaf cluster at the end of the twig and leaves alternating along the twig. The red-purple you describe is also typical. These are very slow growing and in deep shade, stay short and twiggy and shrub-like for a long time. The underbrush in the woods on our farm was full of them. The tree itself, when full grown, is a producer of very small, delicious nuts, a third of the size of a typical walnut, The nuts are very hard and generally you need a nutcracker and pick to get at the meat.

If you don't have a pignut in the immediate area (they are not the most common tree around, but coastal MA is very much their ideal climate; our farm was in MA and we had several in our woods) it's possible that a squirrel is responsible for your "volunteers". They will scavenge the area for food for the winter and bury their stores. A squirrel may have found one in his search for winter food and buried them in your garden.

kathyannd: I don't think it's a hickory - the leaves are not arranged in a cluster of five leaflets attached to one stem, they appear to be separate leaves, each with its own stem. The distance between the stems (internode length?) is just shorter at the top of the twig.

Between the squirrels and the birds I have lots of interesting volunteers in my yard (and some not so good, like poison ivy).

Claire

Hickory has pinnate leaves. The plant in the photo does not have pinnately compound leaves. The top two pictures clearly show single alternate leaves on the main stem. I am not insisting it is pawpaw since I have never seen one. But it is definitely not any kind of tree with a pinnate leaf which excludes all Carya, Juglans and Fraxinus.

Thanks, floral_uk, I was stumbling on the nomenclature.

Claire

I think it looks like black gum, Nyssa sylvatica.

I was thinking it looked like hickory too!
But i cant be sure.

I am no expert on N American trees but Hickories have pinnate leaves. This plant does not. Ergo it cannot be a Hickory. This isn't a matter of opinion but a matter of botanical fact. AFAIK the leaf shape isn't right (ovate rather than cuneate) for Nyssa sylvatica either and they don't appear glossy enough. How about posting this on over on the trees forum? There are people there who will be able to id it I'm sure.

Try to get a close up picture of the leaf bud that has already formed for next year. It is right where this year's leaf adjoins the stem (or where it used to be if the leaf has dropped now).

Black gum leaves can be quite variable.

As floral_uk says, these are simple, alternate leaves. Hickory is not even in the running.

esh_ga: It's dark now so I'll try to get a close up of the leaf bud in the morning and post it here. All of the leaves were blown off in the windstorm.

floral_uk: I'll post on the trees forum after I've got the leaf bud pictures.

Thanks,
Claire

Lindera benzoin?

Not a great pic but it does show the terminal bud with hints of the lower buds. The leaves on the ground are probably from the wild cherry above, not from the unknown woody.

{{gwi:367733}}

It's beginning to rain but I can try to get a better photo if necessary.

Claire

I just posted on the Trees Forum: ID woody volunteer with nice fall color?

Claire

If you get an idm could you please post here? I'm quite curious!

The consensus seems to be Nyssa sylvatica; in fact, no other ID was presented. You can read the discussion at the link two posts above.

Claire

How interesting.... I would not have guessed that. I thought black gum leaves were more red than gold in fall. We saw so many small shrublets that looked just like that in our woods. We had several pig nut trees... I loved pignuts!

PS... thanks for the update! Do you plan to leave them and see how they develop?

Nyssa sylvatica leaves can be variable in size, color and texture. I used to have a forester friend that said "If all characteristics point to Nyssa and you can't id as anything else, it probably is a Nyssa."

kathyannd: Several people on the Trees forum said that Nyssa leaves are usually yellow in the shade - that was my concern also. They need sun to turn that bright red.

I was also told that the root would be about twice the length of the above ground segment so I need to move the seedling before it gets much bigger (or the root elongates). I'll probably be moving it in the next few days....I'm not quite sure where....

Claire

Claire, we had three tuliptrees show up as volunteers. They grew from seeds that had fallen into perennials that we bought at a garden center. They had brought the perennials in from another state. Apparently, the seeds from the tree fell all over the perennials. Anyway, they started sprouting in our perennial beds. A total of 3 sprouted and grew into trees. We gave one away and moved the other two.

We contacted a landscaper/tree expert and he said not to move them until they were totally dormant and all leaves had dropped. We are on North Shore and he told us to wait until December 1. The trees had grown considerably (those buggers grow over 5 feet a year) so we hired someone to do the job and we moved them in early December.

I'm in CA right now, not really keeping tabs on MA weather, but you might want to wait a few weeks. I'm not sure if that advice applies to all trees or just the tuliptree, but I thought I'd share it. In the meantime, if you do decide to wait, you could choose a spot and dig the hole - that will save you having to do it when you move the tree, but you might want to wait at least a couple more weeks until it drops all of its leaves. Just a thought... maybe someone else has more experience with this.

Thanks, kathyannd. The leaves are all dropped now, at least partly due to the high winds we had. I figure sometime in the next week or two I should dig the seedling - I'm mostly concerned about getting it out before the taproot gets even longer and harder to excavate without breakage. The seedling is still small, only about 18" tall so it will be easy to move now.

The soil stays relatively warm in the fall here on the coast (we haven't had a frost yet, although it's getting closer), so I expect root growth to continue for a while and I'd like it to continue in the new location.

I'm waiting for the neighbors to decide if they want it in their yard; if not, I have a location planned for it.

Claire

Lucy you, black gum is a choice tree, and especially if it's a volunteer.

Thanks, calliope. That's how I feel too - most of the plants in my garden are named cultivars, bought online or at local nurseries, and I love them dearly, but a volunteer is special. "Look what just walked into my yard!" An unexpected gift.

I moved it this morning. Luckily, there were a lot of stones in the soil and the taproot had to switch back and forth so it wasn't too deep. The new location isn't ideal but it's a lot better than next to the road and under a wild cherry.

Claire