I've been touched by his noodley appendage....

wow.

Shady, whereabouts on your person were you touched?

My very soul :)

I just might have to convert. Thanks for the link.

Shaun

I just knew these Intelligent Design people were on to something. I KNEW it. They just had a couple of details wrong.

My life now has purpose and meaning. I have a reason for getting up in the morning. I am now saved. YIP!!

Shady - You have a soul?

K

"Shady - You have a soul?"

No, I was joking. But I am a Pastafarian.

Yeah. Hopefully these people don't hijack our science classes. After all, we're dead last in math and science of all the industrial nations, right?

How do you know that you are dead last? I doubt it?
Anyway, the great noodle has failed in one aspect of intelligent design. If you read the post by Ana of the Pacific you will see that us males are sadly lacking in many areas.

His great plan for us (men, I mean) isn't yet fully realized -- we are currently only at the early "al dente" stage of our development.

Oh, we're definitely not dead last now that we're going to be saved by the FSM!!! LOL... I wouldn't mind being converted to a Pastafarian, already half way there!!!
Thanks, Jim, for an eye opener! LOL...

Arthur: (I know this article is a bit old..but still true)

SF Gate
U.S. Teens Rank Low in World Tests
High school students dismal in math, science
- Nanette Asimov, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 25, 1998

STATEWIDE -- In the most complete international study of schooling ever conducted, U.S. high school seniors ranked near the bottom in math and science, reflecting what educators call a crisis in American education.

The dismal results, released yesterday, are the latest part of the Third International Mathematics & Science Study (TIMSS).

U.S. educators said the study points out the critical need for stronger graduation standards and much improved teacher education.

``There is something wrong with the system, and it is our generation's responsibility to fix it,'' President Clinton said. ``You cannot blame the schoolchildren. There is no excuse for this.''

One of the more ominous findings in the latest study is that even the American students taking advanced courses could not measure up to students from other nations. In math, they ranked 15th out of 16 nations. In physics, U.S. seniors ranked dead last.

In general math and science, American seniors ranked near the bottom among 21 nations.

Japan and China, usually the gold-medal performers in past studies of younger grades, did not participate in the seniors' round of the multiyear study.

Instead, U.S. seniors were outgunned in basic math by Sweden, Switzerland and Germany, among others; creamed in science by Canada; and overpowered in physics by the very country that is supposed to be looking to the United States for scientific expertise, Russia.

Only 11 percent of U.S. seniors understood, for example, one of the most basic concepts of energy conservation: that the amount of light energy produced by a lamp is less than the amount of electrical energy used to power the lamp in the first place.

On average, 21 percent of students in other countries got this right.

``Our students fare poorly on the largest, most comprehensive and most rigorous international comparison of education ever undertaken,'' said a disappointed Bruce Alberts, president of the National Academy of Sciences.

``This simply is not acceptable. It is our responsibility to prepare our youth for the next century, and we are failing them.''

Only 10 percent of high school graduates qualify for even entry- level jobs, he said.

International rankings for grade 4 were released in June and for grade 8 in 1996. American fourth-graders scored competitively, but as math classes progressed, scores declined by eighth grade.

The researchers hope that educators in each state will look at the results of the study and beef up standards, improve teaching practices and upgrade academic requirements.

California had such an opportunity last fall, when it debated what voluntary statewide standards to adopt in math.

But few educators and politicians could even agree on what it meant to match the state standards to the findings of TIMSS.

As a result, members of the state Board of Education clashed with the state Department of Education. Each side said its preferred set of math standards more closely reflected the best academic practices of the highest-achieving nations in the TIMSS study.

Even the TIMSS researchers got into the debate, with TIMSS executive director Bill Schmidt strongly criticizing the board's standards, and another important TIMSS figure, Harold Stevenson, praising them.

The standards preferred by the board members, who are appointees of Governor Pete Wilson, eventually were approved in December over the strong objections of state schools Superintendent Delaine Eastin.

But Bill Lucia, the board's executive director, said that despite disagreements over just what practices are likely to yield the highest test scores, the voluntary standards that were adopted are better than what California, like most states, has now: none at all.

``We don't even specify what math you have to take,'' he said. ``You can graduate knowing only basic arithmetic.''

Although the TIMSS report contains no recommendations for what states should do to improve curriculum and teaching, researchers looked carefully at the practices of nations that consistently outperform others.

Surprisingly, the answers suggest that use of calculators, amount of homework assigned, after-school jobs and even stress do not explain American students' low scores.

Instead, the highest-performing students are those who take the most rigorous subjects and whose teachers are qualified to teach them, having majored or minored in the subject area, said assistant secretary Gerald Tirozzi of the U.S. Department of Education in announcing the study results.

About 55 percent of students taking physics in the United States, for example, are taught by someone who never majored or minored in the subject.

Bob Chase, president of the National Education Association, said the TIMSS results represent a crisis in American education, and he called on universities around the country to improve teacher education departments and on school districts to professionalize the field to attract math and science experts back from industry.

Here are some of the study's other findings:

-- In all countries but South Africa, boys scored significantly higher than girls in math and science literacy.

-- Despite their relatively low performance, U.S. seniors were among those who had the highest perception of their performance, with 70 percent believing they did well.

-- Despite the different educational approaches and structures in the various countries, parents' education is related to students' math and science literacy.

COMPARING U.S. SCORES WITH OTHER NATIONS

Test scores of 5,400 seniors in 210 public and private high schools

were compared with seniors in other nations in four subjects:

advanced math, physics, general math and general science. Among

16 countries, U.S. seniors outperformed only Austria in advanced

math. In physics, U.S. seniors ranked dead last. Below are the

rankings of all 21 countries that participated in the comparison

of general math and science knowledge, as well as a sample question.

.

Sample question: General science knowledge

.

Some high-heeled

shoes are claimed to damage floors. The base diameter of these

very high heels is about 0.5 cm and of ordinary heels about

3 cm. Briefly explain why the very high heels may cause damage

to floors.

.

Examples of correct answers:

.

-- ``The pressure from the heel is greater because the area is smaller.''

-- ``Because of the narrow diameter of very high heels,

all the body weight is spread over a smaller area. There is

greater pressure exerted on the floor with the higher heels

because it is all placed in a small area. The pressure is less

on a wider heel because the weight is distributed over a greater

area causing less damage.''

.

Percent answering correctly: U.S.: 42%, International: 61%

.

GENERAL MATH

.

Nation Average score

Netherlands 560

Sweden 552

Denmark 547

Switzerland 540

Iceland 534

Norway 528

France 523

New Zealand 522

Australia 522

Canada 519

Austria 518

Slovenia 512

INTERNATIONAL AVERAGE 500

Germany 495

Hungary 483

Italy 476

Russian Federation 471

Lithuania 469

Czech Republic 466

United States 461

Cyprus 446

South Africa 356

.

GENERAL SCIENCE

Nation Average score

Sweden 559

Netherlands 558

Iceland 549

Norway 544

Canada 532

New Zealand 529

Australia 527

Switzerland 523

Austria 520

Slovenia 517

Denmark 509

INTERNATIONAL AVERAGE 500

Germany 497

France 487

Czech Republic 487

Russian Federation 481

United States 480

Italy 475

Hungary 471

Lithuania 461

Cyprus 448

South Africa 349

.

The problem with this is that there are ratings for two subjects. There are statistics and lies. To get the complete picture you might have to rate the whole education system. If there was a decision to improve Maths and Science, resources might have to be taken away from some subjects that are deemed important in the USA.

Not qualified to comment anyway. Not much lernin, left school ages ago aged 15.

Let's get back to the great noodle.

We ARE a dumb country, Arthur..and I can say that because I AM an American. Trust me..with third world momentum from Mexico, we are rapidly becoming the "intellectual ghetto" of the planet. I've seen first-hand what an influx of foreigners can do to the public school system.

We all know that math and science are the most important subjects after you learn how to read.

I hate to agree, but I can't disagree! We waste more resources than just petroleum. Teachers wages are an embarassment: I went back to my hometown where I went to high school and saw the best Biology teacher possibly in the state working nights at a convenience store to supplement funding for his kids' college tuition. And the students were/are lucky to have him in the school district--most "best and brightest" go on to work in their area of study while all too often those individuals who can't find jobs in the field resort to teaching. I KNOW there are invaluable professors out there, so this is just a generalization, but there is little incentive to become a teahcer at the high school level.

It's hard to complain about the influx of foreigners--after all, everyone but Native Americans are relatively new to this land--but while lower class groups fill public schools, it lowers the mean as resources are realocated to adjust to the differing needs of new students who may not even speak English. DH and I have already resolved to put our kids in private schools. The cost is tremendous considering we will still pay property taxes to suport that school system we do not favor, but I think the payoff will be well worth the cost.

Again, this is generalization. There have been plenty of immigrants who have not only bettered themselves by moving to USA, but also have made wonderful contributions to US society.

But in general, the class gap widens, as it becomes more difficult to stay on the better end on the spectrum.

Yes, Nicole..I agree..but when our ancestors came to this country they were forced to learn English..catering to immigrant groups that don't speak English is a BIG waste of resources.

Having several teacher friends, most of them agree that new immigrants are reluctant or refuse to learn English.

Just sent a probe to Pluto. Pretty Dumb.

Beware of those Hispanics*. That was probably said about 100 years ago when one of my wife's British Ancestors arrived with his Spanish/Chilean wife.

Anyway, the education system here is way better than when i went to school all those years ago to learn redin, riten and rithmetic. 50 in a class.
AND, dear daughter would have failed any Science Math test in high school.

Went on to Uni and has a double history major. Fancy studying "the black experience in America" at an Australian University. What use can that be!!!

Actually, very useful, all that ferreting of info. was good ground work for what she does now. Research Analyst. No maths? Not a problem!. She has purchased Statistics for Dummies!

Can we get back to the great noodle and the fact that many good intentioned people forget. The USA is a secular country. Wonder why the founding fathers did that?

*Wonder when that word first appeared. Oh to be a black and white thinker and be certain everything is going to the dogs and to long for the good old days etc etc.

Arthur, I can't help but think back to when I first ventured to the Dark Side ... something about politics came up and I tried to remind you of the "special instructions for off-topic conversations"--please keep away from politics, religion, etc. And yourself and others said I must be new: I will soon learn that anything goes and threads often get hijacked. I think I have conformed to the standards of the forum ;)

But you're right ... a man on the Moon, and now a probe to Pluto is certainly cutting edge progress. The standard of living is undoubtedly increasing as a whole compared to 20, 50, 100 years ago and counting.

Maybe it's us idealistic Americans with a complex for being the best at everything (there must be a name for it but the dumb American I am doesn't know it ahahah) that causes the perception that we're dumb because we don't rank in the top three in the world on test scores. We also are unlikely (at least compared to European states) to learn a second language. Geographic proximity to other languages may have something to do with that, but I think it contributes to the perception of Americans being arrogant. But that's the view from the inside. The media has us thinking that we are disliked or envied to the point of hostility. Being on the other side of the world, maybe an Aussie can give us a better idea of how USA looks to the rest of the world.

Anway, I would hazzard a guess that the education of the American population is skewed to the right where the vast majority of people have low-to-average education levels--in fact: "half of today's young adults now enter universities or other institutions offering similar qualifications at some stage during their life. An average 32% complete a first university-level degree, but this ranges from less than 20% in Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany and Switzerland to 45% in Australia and Finland." Graduating from college does not guarantee intelligence, but this does illustrate that about 70% of Americans never graduate from college. Those scientists capable of sending a probe to Pluto are few. Has the USA accomplished this because of its brain power, or by virtue of its wallet?

A complicated matter, this is.