Why?

My son, an engineer in the US merchant marine just sent me an email about the Emma Maersk. This may be the largest or close to the largest container ship crisscrossing the Pacific.

1,302' long
110,000 HP
123,200 ton displacement
Speed 31 knots
Crew 13
Containers: 15.000

This monster brings containers from China to the US 4 days faster than any other ship. It goes non stop.

****The punch line: It returns with 15,000 EMPTY containers, picks up a new load and repeats the process.

Every time we buy something this thing brings over we are diminishing an American's chance of a job. I'm not against trade as long as the playing field is level. Europe,Canada, AU, Japan etc all pay living wages leading to fair competition. No problem there. I was at WalMart the other day and virtually everything is made in China, Bangladesh etc, all countries that pay minuscule wages.

Since our politicians seem unwilling or unable to put a stop to this maybe we can. I'm not sure we can, as I also am not willing to pay 3 times as much for an item but I'm going to look around first to see if there is even a choice.

Tomorrow I'm going to Home Depot for PVC pipes and some copper fittings. If its all made in China I'll check out the competition, look around a little and if there is no choice will buy it as I need it. I'm just going to look harder to see if it is not possible to stimulate our economies from the ground up.

I'm probably fighting wind mills, wouldn't be the first time.

Nick

Its a two way thing. My golfing partner has this golf club...

Designed in the USA

Bits made in China

Assembled in the USA

Bought via Ebay (new from the USA)

Pretty good golf club, i tried it and it hits "not very far + 10 to 15 meters"

You are going to have to do a lot of checking....and what happens when the USA stops trading with China, we have GFC ++++ and i'm already suffering from a normal GFC.

LOL Arthur "not very far + 10 to 15 meters"

If you can teach people they want regular socks for $10 a pair instead of a package of three pairs for $5.00 from WalMart, you can win the battle. The hardest part will be getting an American worker to take a reduced salary to compete with the foreign workers hourly wage.

*We* think the foreign workers are being forced to work for, in our opinions, slave wages but in reality, their standard of living has drastically improved. It is better for them to sit at a sewing machine than to scavage the dump to find something of value to sell.

Be careful fighting windmills, one of the blades might strike you :>)

Brooke

I'm not going to spend $10 for a pair of socks when WalMart sells them for $5 / 3 either. I'm just thinking that one should make an effort to look around a little bit and maybe find socks made in the countries I listed. I would be willing to pay a little more, say 20%. I have never done that before, just automatically bought the $5 package.

We are not going to stop trading with China, Arthur, but tweaking it a little cannot hurt. Also, we are intimately tied to Canada and Mexico, their well being will only benefit the US. Canada is off no concern, they are doing better than us in many ways, but Mexico deserves some thought. If I can buy the socks made in Mexico, rather than China or Bangladesh, it will indirectly benefit us. So, even if they cost a little more, we should do so. The better off the Mexican economy is, the less the pressure for their people to gate crash the US. I'm a firm believer in the North American alliance, like it or not, the 3 of us are in bed together. If we are going to loose some manufacturing jobs, lets loose them to Mexico. I'm not altruistic enough to a give rat's tail feathers about the economy of Bangladesh.

Nick

This project lasted less than 24 hours. Went to HD and checked out plumbing supplies I needed to install the heater and the swamper for the new greenhouse. Found NOTHING made in America. All China and some Taiwan. Went to OSH and found the identical situation. Next a Mom and Pop hardware store in our hood. Same stuff only nearly twice as expensive.

Back to HD, I need the stuff. Need to change the object of the exercise to how long it will take me to find ANYTHING (short of a Hershey bar) made in America.

This is a deplorable situation.

Nick

Well....i was instructed by the Dragon Woman to put the washing out yesterday.
Most of it was my daughters stuff, she doesn't live here but her washing does.

So did some research and have to report that every single item had "made in china" on the label.

This is a deplorable situation. Lol.

Ps. Dragon woman arrived and complained about my clothes hanging style. She shouldn't look gift putter outers in the mouth. Besides that i was doing essential research and was not fussed about peg marks.

GFC? Geelong Football Club??

Stitz, the subject is GFC as in Global Financial Crisis. How to hang washing out correctly. How not to play golf. How much should three pairs of socks cost.
Why the last government got turfed out here when they introduced USA Employment type rules (Work Choices nickname Serf Choices)
When are things going to get better over there? Future Shock = Now Shock.
My families trade deficit with the USA.
Etc. Etc.

But, absolutely nothing to do with the the Geelong Football Club.

arthurm, thank you very much for setting me straight. Please, arrange my execution by gunshot at sunrise for
blatantly attempting to highjack this thread's topic to the Geelong Football Club.

We both know that nothin' is more impo'tant than the price of Bengali or Tijuana sox at WalMart!

--Stitz--

alright i'll bite, why would you be interested in the Geelong Football Club. They play a game of football where most of players need to be long lanky beings at least 7 foot tall. Similar to Gridion where most of the players are 7 foot tall but, in addition are at least three feet wide. Both games are a puzzle to the unknowing.

Even worse, in the state of Victoria, this particular game induces media madness
A player's groin strain will be the leading news story of the day.

I couldn't imagine that someone in OZ would relate to a GFC global financial crisis. Relative to the US$, your A$ has improved from around 1.95 to around 1.10 over the past several years, a remarkable achievement!

So, it only seemed logical to me that you must have referenced the GFC Geelong Football Club!

BTW, I see that you are freely using English measurements to measure the sizes of GFC global football contestants. Back when I had daily contact with Aussies, y'all used to drive me nuts with measurements like "stones" -- from a country that is metric! :) When I was in Great Britain, I rarely heard "stones".

Always something to liven the day if we look...

--Stitz--

Stitz, i am only being nice and doing the when in Rome thing by using those ancient terms.

As for doing well, you would not believe it watching current affairs programs. All Doom and Gloom in Socialist Australia.

Where is Nick? This thread needs him.

I'm busy learning Chinese. Our capitalistic system is doomed! The leading corporations care only about the bottom line and nothing else. The Wall Street geniuses need more and more to satisfy their greed, won't stop until they have ALL the wealth under their belt. Just like the Ebola virus, who is so effective and efficient that it destroys it's host, our super effective moneymaking machines are going to destroy the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Recent article in the LA times: American corporations are brilliant in realizing that there are a couple of billion of potential consumers in China and India and have identified products that they can sell there and make more money. So far so good, their shareholders should be happy. Now the punch line: To insure maximum profits they are building factories in China and India to produce these products! This is hardly noticed near the end of the article.

Where does that leave America and the American workers? Out in the cold.

Capitalism has become like a super efficient cancer consuming everything for the benefit of more and more profit. We desperately need a little socialism, can you send some over Arthur? You seem to have too much of it, we have too little.

There, that out to get the rabid, foaming at the mouth Tea Baggers going. Maybe the brilliant Sarah Palin will weigh in and show us the way to the promised land.

Nick

Hahaha.
Fat chance.

It's not that the corporations only care about the bottom line, that's truly their reason for being, its the politicians they've bought who swear hidden somewhere in the constitution is a corporation's right to earn 100% profit year over year, whether they did anything to earn it or not. The banks had record profits last year, on the taxpayer bailouts (I haven't researched/corroborated this myself but on several occasions I read-passing references- that the banks profits equaled the size of their bailouts). And then received record bonuses based on how astutely they chose their lobbyists.

My answer to this:I gave up credit cards years ago and at Christmas I dumped the big bank and signed up with a credit union. The only way to stop the big banks is to cut them off at the knees.

Stopping China is harder, especially since they want to go "green". If that happens, and they can turn their ship around a whole lot faster then the US, third world here we come (I guess the one thing you can say about communist countries, they get a wild hair and go for it, while we drown in BS politics).

Besides the fact that Sarah Palin is an idiot, on more levels than can be counted, her family is on "socialized medicine" via the native Indian group her husband is descended from. Wonder when the "death panels" are going to toast the kid she carries around like a loaf of bread.

Love your comments, Laura. I want to add my 2 cents worth on some.

Palin may be an idiot but I consider her a threat in 2012. The GOP will probably have to move to the middle in order to be competitive. She won't be on the ticket but if she actively campaigns she may bring some of the brain dead, extreeme right wing nuts to the polls who would otherwise sit out the election because they can't stomach the ticket. On the other hand, I heard that the crazy Tea Baggers will field their own candidate in Nevada to run against Harry Reid. If that's true they will split the GOP vote and give Harry another 6 years. Hopefully Annie Oakley Palin will become their de facto leader and more 3rd party candidates will surface.

On corporate greed, our corporations are probably only slightly more greedy than their European counterparts but benefit from so many tax loopholes that they pay the lowest actual taxes in the western world. The money they do pay is not used by our government to provide a solid safety net for all citizens the way Europeans do. Bottom line is that our corporate profits benefit the citizenry less than in other parts of the world.

I like your banking idea but unfortunately it would not work for me. Me and all of my 6 kids use the same bank so we can shuffle money around with the click of a mouse. I have not written a check for over 3 years, don't even have a checkbook anymore, automatic bill pay, the ATM card and PayPal take care of everything on line. If I actually had to hand someone a check I would have to purchase a money order from the Post Office. So it would be hard to walk away from this, the bank does not charge me for anything, zero bank fees, hard to beat. I still like your credit union idea, just too impracticable for me to make a switch.

Some how or other it all works, Nick

Bank bashing seems to be a universal pastime. Nick, i'm certainly with you on the subject of corporate greed and excessive salaries, especially when the b.....s do not deliver and then walk away from a company with decreased shareholder value and get a payout to boot.

This happened with Australia's most hated company after it hired an import from the USA to fix things up. He didn't

Contrast this with one Robert Joss, he certainly did fix up an ailing bank to my eternal gratitude. Do not know who Robert Joss is? Read the link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Joss

One difference between companies here and there might be dividend imputation. If a company has paid tax and pays you a dividend, you get a tax credit to be used when filing your income tax return.

Did not know what a tea bagger was....googled Tea bagger. Yuk!

Of course Nick knows what a tea bagger is - he meant it as an insult to anyone who is center right instead of far left.

Arthur the term Tea Party stands for anyone who is Taxed Enough Already. It is for people who want their politicians to be fiscally responsible instead of spending money we have to print. The current adminstration racing toward socialism has awakened the silent majority. We now owe our future to the Chinese and the Japanese who are buying our Treasury Bonds. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I love how the mention of Sarah Palin makes the left froth at the mouth - very entertaining.

Nick don't worry, all Republican candidates running in the Nevada primary poll ahead of Reid.

Brooke

I'm aware of Reid's predicament. Even though he is one of ours, I think he is a whimp who with the massive majority in the Senate got very little done. Imagine how much the likes of LBJ or Everett Dircksen could have done with a majority like that.

Any ONE of the GOP hopefuls may be ahead of him but field TWO and they will loose.

Arthur, the Tea Baggers nead to be euthanised but a humane way has not been agreed upon. Tell me about your efforts to gently and painlessly do away with the Buffo frogs by freezing them to death. I thought bashing them on the head with a club would be quicker but I have never been accused of being a caring, sensitive individual.

Brooke, you got me all wrong on Sarah Palin. I love that woman, she is the gift that keeps on giving. Anything she does or says is hilarious, if I hear that she is on the news I drop everything and rush to watch CNN. One does not even have to listen to her speeches, when she holds her hand up you can read the talking points on her palm and go back to watering orchids. She is so good at stand up comedy that SNL quoted her verbatim instead of having one of their comedy writers tweak her comments. She is the Great White Hope of the Democrats, if she runs I will contribute to her campaign. The only thing I have not seen or hear her do is speak in tongues while flailing on the floor in rapture. If I had any wisdom teeth left I would offer one up for that event.

Arthur, you wanted me to rekindle this blurb, are you satisfied? If this subject dries up we can mention abortion and/or gun control, this gets the blood of any red blooded, low IQ American boiling. Yeah!!

Nick

All your insults are more than welcome Nick - independents particularly enjoy them. Many people who aren't far right wing and just consider themselves fiscally conservative need to be kicked in the butt to pay attention to what's going on around them.

As I said, Sarah's ability to make the left's eyes spin and drown in their own spittle - big thumbs up! I agree, Saturday Night Live is a great news organization.

No Reid won't have a three way race - no third party will be needed in NV after the primary. I'm glad you claim him. I was really impressed when the Senate Majority Leader stated that men out of work become abusive to their spouses. Yes sir, quite a stateman. I hope Mrs. Reid gets a restraining order right before the election.

I can understand why you favor abortions since that was your specialty and your bread and butter. I also can understand why some people oppose it. If they oppose abortions, who am I to tell them what to believe. I try to respect all people's rights, even your far left views, and I try never to insult anyone.

Please, impress Arthur and others with your continued use of the term Tea Baggers - for some reason it seems to make you feel really good about yourself.

Brooke

Always something to liven the day...

I also never try to insult anyone and will never press my views or morality on others. I respect other viewpoints and only get irritated when there is an attempt to impose one's morality on others. We have laws for that, if consenting adults are within the boundaries of the law the matter should end there.

You may have noticed that I'm not a big fan of Harry Reid's either. If he had the cahunas and the determination of Klondike Barbie, we would have health care reform by now. Even though I disagree with almost everything she stands for, I'm actually a big fan of her, truly admire her for her guts, determination and willingness to take big chances. In addition to that she is easy on the eyes. While governor of Alaska she made no attempt to impose her morality on others, much to her credit. She does the talk but she also does the walk, no hypocrisy there and I suspect she may not truly insist on forcing her morality on others.

None of which qualifies her to be president and she is still funny as hell.

Nick

Reid had the cojones that produced this mountain of future debt

"This bill does not control costs (or) reduce deficits. Instead, (it) adds a new health care entitlement when we have no idea how to pay for the entitlements we already have."

"The bill has 10 years of tax increases, about half a trillion dollars, with 10 years of Medicare cuts, about half a trillion dollars, to pay for six years of spending. The true 10-year cost (is) $2.3 trillion."

 "The bill takes $52 billion in higher Social Security tax revenues and counts them as offsets. But that's really reserved for Social Security. So either we're double-counting them or we don't intend on paying those Social Security benefits."

 "The bill takes $72 billion from the CLASS Act (long-term care insurance) benefit premiums and claims them as offsets."

 "The bill treats Medicare like a piggy bank, (raiding) half a trillion dollars not to shore up Medicare solvency, but to spend on this new government program."

 "The chief actuary of Medicare (says) as much as 20% of Medicare providers will either go out of business or have to stop seeing Medicare beneficiaries."

 "Millions of seniors who have chosen Medicare Advantage (Medicare through a private insurer) will lose the coverage that they now enjoy."

 "When you strip out the double-counting and ... gimmicks, the full 10-year cost of the bill has a $460 billion deficit. The second 10-year cost of this bill has a $1.4 trillion deficit."

 "The 'doc fix' (restoring cuts in Medicare reimbursements) costs $371 billion ... a price tag (that) made the score look bad. (So) that provision was taken out, and (put) in stand-alone legislation. But ignoring these costs does not remove them from the backs of taxpayers. Hiding spending does not reduce spending."

 "Are we bending the cost curve down or are we bending the cost curve up? If you look at your own chief actuary at Medicare, we're bending it up. He's claiming that we're going up $222 billion, adding more to the unsustainable fiscal situation we have."

Thanks to Rep. Paul Ryan, WI for providing this insight into the actual cost of the proposed bill.

Brooke

The office of budget analysis, or what ever its called, says the opposite. Either they or Paul Ryan are all wet.

By all means let's not mess with the 'best health care system in the world'. Never mind that we rank near the bottom when compared to other civilized nations in little matters such as:

Maternal mortality
Infant mortality
Preventive disease elimination
Life expectance

Never mind that we spend 2 to 3 times as much for health care as others and get much poorer results. Sure, the super wealthy of the world come to the Mayo Clinic for care but the AVERAGE AMERICAN (this includes the 30,000,000 who have no insurance) gets quality of care far inferior to the care given in most other western nations.

So lets not change our wonderful 'for profit insurance' system. Let's privatize Medicare instead so the insurance companies can benefit from millions of additional customers.

Nick

Enough about Sarah Barracuda, back to the topic Today was the first time I was able to buy something US made. Mousetraps made by Woodstream in PA. Until now everything I bought either came from the Orient or I could not tell where it was made.

Nick

Brooke, I can't believe your attack on Nick. Do you know Utah just declared a pregnant woman to be no more than a walking womb? It is now a felony to have a miscarriage in Utah. Another state recently did the same thing but didn't take it quite so far. Don't believe me, google it? Do you have any clue how many things can cause a miscarriage? Hell I read a research paper today listing the chemicals women ingest in the first 3 months, when most don't even know they are pregnant, are probably the cause of autism, and frankly, common sense would dictate miscarriages too. How would you like to be accused of murdering your fetus if you didn't know you were pregnant? Or had a blood disorder you didn't know about? Or were taking the wrong medication for depression, heart disease, cholesterol, anemia, etc?

Centrist republicans don't want government getting in between themselves and a doctor but are more than happy to let an old, misogynous, white, male politician go there. Makes a lot of sense.

The only thing that will bring both the cost of health care down and the national debt is single payer/medicare for all. Unless the government can negotiate prices, as socialist governments do, we will always pay more. Do you really think a drug that costs $30 a month in Canada and $150 a month here is any different? Or that the manufacturer is not still making a profit at only $30? Of course they are making a profit or they wouldn't sell in that country. By the way, we, as tax payers, fund most drug research via universities, the NIH, etc., the drug companies then go and register the patents off shore, so they don't have to pay taxes on their earnings, and then scalp us again on price due to their sweetheart deals with our wonderful government. Yes, deregulation is working very well for the haves, while we pay twice for the same drugs and technology other countries negotiate much, much lower prices for. Let me see, I believe a brain scan in Canada, the UK, and France costs $30 but between $500 and 1k in this country. The price of remaining corporatist? Priceless and rising.

By the way, in case you weren't looking, GW drove the national debt to new heights only seen previously from space.

Laura

It's OK Laura, thanks for your support but I invited that kind of attack. We are not going to solve the problems of the world, just having a little fun on a rainy day when I'm getting bored with the Olympics.

On your medication issue, you don't have to go to Canada to prove your point, just go to WalMart. I'll give you one example:

Warfarin costs me $10.00 for a 3 month supply. I don't believe WalMart is loosing money so even at that ridiculous price they are making a little. I have Medicare but the drug plan is such a rip that I withdrew from it a couple of years ago and never use it. If I paid for one of those rip off drug plans, my copay per month would be higher than the total cost for 3 month worth at WalMart. In addition Medicare would pay $70 plus for their share as the drug companies can literally set the price, GW made sure Medicare is not allowed to shop for the cheapest price.

The VA, Medicaid etc all negotiate for the lowest price, same as WalMart, Medicare feeds the corporate greed of the big pharmaceuticals.

I'm also against the health care overhaul but for a different reason. Obama is trying to fix a system that is so systemically corrupt that it is beyond repair. The only purpose the insurance companies serve is to make money for their shareholders. They truly contribute NOTHING to our well being. They are a filter between us and the health care provider that siphons of billions for profits, advertisements and a layer of paper pushers. Every nation in the world except us makes it illegal to run a profit company for the administration of primary health care.

The only fix is to scrap the entire system and have Medicare for all. And that needs tweaking too. Of course I still hope that they will pass something which will be no more than a foot in the door with bigger and better to come in the future. Eventually we will realize that there is a reason why every single western nation, without exception, makes health care a right of their people and sees to it that everyone gets it. We assume that when it comes to police or fire protection. It was not too long ago that people had to buy fire protection and if they failed to do so the fire department allowed their house to burn to the ground. The conservatists of the day probably screamed that they don't want the government involved with the fire department, let the market take care of it. Eventually we will feel the same way about health care, I doubt that I'll live to see it but it will come.

Finally time to go to bed, sunshine is expected tomorrow, I'll be busy with the orchids so won't be insulting anyone then nor make fun of the poor Sarah Palin.

Nick

No Nick the CBO did go back and correct their first report on the Senate bill plus the Medicare Advisory Board also had corrections to add.

If the bill is changed to include what the President wants, the cost will explode even higher because the Senate bill taxed high end insurance policies. The Unions cried boo hoo so they changed that provision to also include non-union plans until the year 2018 - after the Prez is out of office. This increase adds billions to the cost of the plan - remember the CBO hasn't scored BO's plan yet.

The outcry from the Nebraska deal was taken out by the Prez. Well, it wasn't really taken out, it was given to ALL states for several years, then 90% is still picked up by the Fed - this alone will add billions/trillions to the unscored plan.

I don't know if the special tax breaks for those evil insurance companies in Nebraska, NY and MI are still in play or not. Or if the Medicare Advantage for FL only was included but the Senate version permitted FL residents to be special.

Please quit using an old WHO report for misleading figures regarding our health care system. All deaths including traffic and violence are included in the report.

If you own a business and you make a 4% profit for the year is that considered lavish? When everyone cries about the billions made in evil insurance companies, it averages out to 4%.

Medicare is privatized - it is run by the government. When you are on Medicare you better be smart and buy additional insurance to cover everything Medicare won't cover. The insurance company that denies more claims is Medicare, not the private insurance companies. The current rate of denial by Medicare is 65%.

Laura I didn't attack Nick - I believe it was Nick using a sexual term and who mentioned abortion. Hopefully anyone in Utah having problems has access to transportation to find the help they need.

Actually it isn't going to be an old, misogynous, (I LOVE that word) white politician between me and my doctor. It is going to be the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services plus many other new bureaucratic appointees tucked into new governmental agencies deciding everyone's medical decisions.

Many of the decisions "shall" and "may" be decided by the HHS - an appointed Cabinet member, former governor with ZERO medical background. Most of these new agencies will not include anyone with a medical background. Whether they are old, misogynous, white men won't be known until everyone is appointed. I'm confident there will be a rainbow of color with some old white women in the mix - not counting Siebelius. What we need is more goverment employees receiving high salaries. Also what will happen when a new HHS is appointed - are they able to change the "shall" and "may" provisions in the bill?

If you are unhappy with the pharmaceutical industry and want to import cheaper drugs from Canada then you don't understand the deal given to the President. For 10 billion, they are now permitted to extend their patents on new meds from 10 to 12 years. NICE!

Since the pharmaceutical and medical device manufacturers have a profit percentage around 20%, you would think the loud protestations of the evil corporations would keep us awake at night.

It is also very tiring hearing the GW did it - BO doubled Dubya's deficit in one year.

Nick sorry you chose such a crappy drug plan policy. My plan gives me the same price as WalMart for generic drugs. Non-generic drugs are more expensive but they are at WalMart too - in fact, they are the same price as WalMart. Hopefully all of your future meds will be generic when you need them.

Do I think something will be passed? Yes I do. My next form of entertainment will be which States will opt out of the Fed plan because several have already started the process.

I'm also anxious waiting to watch this slog through the court system to reach the Supreme Court to see if the Constitution permits the Federal government to mandate a citizen MUST buy something or be penalized. Don't give me the Interstate Commerce provision - it doesn't make anyone buy anything, just permits them to have access.

Brooke

Many of your objections to the current bill are valid. I think it's a monstrosity but it's the only game in town. At the beginning of this process Obama said the only option NOT on the table is to continue the existing status quo. I totally agree. This is why I hold the current crop of Democrats in low esteem as, with a huge majority in both houses, this is the best they could come up with.

The unity and discipline of the GOP and the 2 to 300 million spent by the Health care industry has done the job for them. Something will be passed and it will be the foot in the door. I hope.

Nick

Nick,
Returning to your original post in this thread......

Recently, I went to Target to purchase a leather belt. I had a gift $25 card. I found GOOD quality, $20 belts from CHINA to be superior to the $14 ones from Guatemala and Honduras. The cheep ones from Central America seemed like reinforced cardboard!

NO leather belts were available from the USA.

At the same time, I purchased a ten-pack of EXCELLENT sweat socks from HONDURAS for $8 + a chunka change to pay the difference and TO my GOVERNOR!

NO sweat socks were available from the USA.

Some orchid people choose to use CINNAMON as a bacteriostat/fungistat. EXCELLENT quality cinnamon is found in INDIAN food stores in bulk packets. It is necessary to grind/smash the sticks... FAR, far cheeper than McCormicks!

--Stitz--