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cjwatson_gw

Non-Orchid End-of-the-Earth Doomsday Thread

cjwatson
15 years ago

Here's where it belongs. Not in the Orchid Discussion area. Feel free to discuss to your heart's content.

Comments (40)

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've come to the conclusion that internet forums are the worst possible places to have these types of discussions. It takes too long and too much typing to argue back and forth and often very few people really listen to what others are saying anyway. Most people are only interested in expressing their own opinions and pretty much ignore everything else that may be said by others. Of course there are exceptions to this, but not many IMO.

    Kevin

  • stitzelweller
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kevin, I will be interested to see if there is as much effort expended here as there was at gumming up the Forum.

    --Stitz--

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    True. I guess I'm just the type of person who likes to do these things in person.

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't been around for a few days which is probably good because i would have been caught up in the mess over the other side.

    Just a little question. Which developed country is the largest emitter of carbon per capita? No! it is not the USA. It is Australia. There are Twenty or so million of us.

    As for the doomsday theory, i do not believe it. We are in a stage of history which will be known as the age of waste. You only have to go into any house in the developed world to see all the junk that everyone owns to think what a waste and this cannot continue.

    But there is hope. There are abundant power sources available and lots of wonderful deserts. Witness that solar power plant in California. Also lots of Methane in coal seams. Better to tap that than waste a valuable resource by burning it.

    From reading my daily Blat, i get the impression that the state of California is actually doing something about the energy crisis.

    Science and technolgy will save us in the end.

    Not all the stuff in this house is useless. There is this computer and the little gadget that says.

    Current Greenhouse gas use .8 Kg per hour
    Current electricity charge Shoulder .10094 cents per KW.
    Greenhouse gases produced 591 Kg. last four weeks

    The last figure is frightening. Only the dragon woman and i live here

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree totally. You know, that whole mess over there kind of started when I made a statement about how I'm cutting back. I think I mentioned my kwh use. Lord only knows I would never admit to you guys other stuff I'm doing. You'd all think I was nuts! In any case, I've been amazed at how little my quality of life has changed. More crap, more energy use doesn't always equal a significantly better life.

    And I also have the satisfaction of knowing I'm morally superior to most folks. (That was a joke.............kind of. Yes, to keep the peace, that was definitely a joke.)

    K

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kevin, i could ask you. "How do you measure moral superiority? Lol. But getting back on topic..... Interesting about the information flow from there to here is all one way. When in America or anywhere else for that matter there is never any news from Australia or even Austria.

    Guess, this is what leads to "American Exceptionalism" mentioned by Shady in another thread. You guys have to get up and about more, but i guess that is more difficult these days now that the US$ doesn't buy much. But great for us, we can buy more HBO goodies.

    My son has a PHD. Wow! i can ask him if exceptionalism is really a word. No seriously, he is working on those bacteria (germs) that are producing lots of methane in coal seams, methane that we can tap and burn without wrecking the planet. Just one little way that Science is going to save us.

    And, he tells me that Just one of those solar plants covering an area of 50 square kilometers could supply all the current energy needs of Australia.

    There is hope!

  • xmpraedicta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I'd consider myself an apprehensive optimist...I do think it's scary because while we are much more aware these days, the potential for destruction is also much greater than it was 40 years ago.....then again, apparently every generation has thought that they were on the brink of destruction.

    I used to think I was morally superior...until I moved to Toronto and started gardening with 'the collective' upon which I met many pals who would put my lifestyle to shame. I do my best without sacrificing too much...I think the key is to live with good habits. Once something becomes a habit, it's no longer a sacrifice.

    PS - Arthur - love to hear more about what your son is working on, if you can share any more details (nothing that might entail the scooping of a science or nature paper of course :)) Although I'm stuck doing my work in medical research, I'm itching to break away and enter that field.

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Calvin, i like "apprehensive optimist"

    What does a gardening collective do? Is it like the English system of gardening plots.

    Sorry cannot share any details because it makes makes my head spin and i would get it all wrong anyway. His wife is doing medical research and doesn't like it because of politics.

    If you could put the equation here for what happens when methane burns, it might help understanding of us lay people. We are the worlds worst emitters because we have many coal fired electricity generators and burning coal produces lots of Carbon.

  • clintdawley
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gee..heavy stuff over here.

    I also hear that Australia recently beat America as the most obese nation...hard to believe..

    Australians would seem to me to be the most ecologically minded people...at least all famous or most of the famous Australians are/were: Steve Irwin/Kiley Minogue

    Well...then you have the Mel Gibson nuts and all..kinda like here in Texas..

    This is a weird post..

  • cjwatson
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am posting what I feel is an applicable excerpt from a post on the other side. Let me explain myself and discuss a bit about my personal involvement with rainforest research and conservation so no one would even think I don't care about the planet:

    "I am a research botanist, have been for the past 40 years, my specialty is vegetation of tropical microclimates and ecotones. I lived in rainforests and cloud forests for over 10 years in Central and South America working very hard under often difficult and even dangerous conditiions to enhance our scientific knowledge about what was there, how the eco system worked, and how to preserve these tropical forests. A good percentage of my time there was devoted to volunteer research projects for organizations and countries who couldn't afford the work or didn't have enough professionals to do it when so much needed to be done. I also helped put together income-producing businesses for the local villages in many areas I worked in, such as butterfly farms -- where butterflies can be raised as a crop for sale internationally to collectors rather than netted out of the forest. We were building research stations (funded by many countries, mostly European) that local families could manage and earn money doing so. I worked on various tourism projects such as creating small nature reserves with improved trails which also sold local crafts. We also got iguana ranches started; they don't harm the rainforest and are sold for pet food in Japan and other countries. Lots more. These were some of the alternatives to chopping down the rainforest for subsistence agriculture; the families were able to earn a living using the forest instead of destroying it.

    "Remember, America (and other developed countries) attained much of its great wealth as a result of centuries of chopping down our own native forests to build homes, for railroads, bridges, furniture, paper, factories using steam power, to build ships, fences, churches, fireplaces/stoves, exporting timber to other countries, etc. So having done it ourselves and benefited mightily from the destruction, we now tell people in third-world countries that they can stay poor by forbidding them to do the same with their own forests. But that doesn't work, they have to have an alternate souce of wealth; even the poorest campesino has to feed his children."

    MORE:
    Research and conservation projects in tropical forests worldwide are very much in jeopardy because governments and organizations have less and less money to spend in these trying economic times. And unlike in the past, researchers can no longer afford to take off months, years to work for free. Unless there is a vast improvement in the global economy, we can kiss all the forests goodbye; both temperate and tropical.

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Carol, not much activity on this this thread.
    You have certainly made the point about the useless activity of going tut, tut about the destruction of rain forest. The solution is in the form of carbon credits. $$$$'s to poor countries to preserve what is left.

    The government here has made the first moves in introducing an emission trading scheme. How it will work and whether it will be successful, i do not know, and it will make some things more expensive.

    Such a scheme is supported by 60% of the population even though it is going to hurt pockets. No doubt, if you polled the US public, you would find similar figures.

    There are going to be great problems here in weaning us off cheap, polluting,
    coal fired, electricity generation. I am still staggered by the 591Kg of CO2
    produced by just two people in a month.

  • littlem_2007
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i would like to do more in the way of conserving and recycling. but i find that in order to do it with real significance would require the kind of monetary committment which i don't have. for example, i would like to use solar energy instead of electricity but to have a system like that in place is prohibitive for me. same for getting a hybrid car and it goes on and on. there seems to be many ways of conserving but only the rich can afford to. so, i do the little bits that i can. it would be interesting to learn of different ways of conserving and if/how it can be incorporated in one's way of life.
    sue

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, In the other thread, i did mention the three different rates of power charging here , so that we run the clothes dryer, dish washer when the power charge is off peak (cheapist) and the electricity is not generated by using so much polluting coal.

    Then there is the garbage bin system. Recycle, Green waste, Non recycleable.
    3 bins plus putting anything that will rot down into the compost heap.

    These days there is not that much that gets into the non-recyceable bin.

    But all you can do is what is within your means and that might be one of the reasons that the other thread went the way it did. Everyone is limited in some way in what they can do, but every little bit helps.

  • xmpraedicta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the study of alternative modes of energy generation is FASCINATING stuff...Tidal power, solar power, etc...I have always had (what I thought to be an absolutely fabulous) idea - to install energy generators in the doors (either normal or revolving) of buildings with a lot of traffic. With the flux of people moving in and out, we'd be able to generate energy from human power! Also, I remember reading an article about energy generating tiles that produce electricity when pressure is placed upon them...some large train station in Japan has these installed in one of the main lobbies, and with the number of people stepping on them each day, the station can essentially power itself!

    Arthur - A gardening collective is essentially a group of people from the community getting together to garden...but it's not run in the fashion of a typical democracy, in that while one person acts as the principle organizer (I think the word we used was 'node of knowledge' or something like that), decisions are made collectively through discussion until everyone agrees. No bureaucratic levels etc...To be honest, it was a little difficult for me to handle (I was the 'node of knowledge' for several years) because ultimately I'm more of a believer in democracy than this form of communal decision making. Anyway! Back on topic...

    The combustion of methane is CH4+O2--> CO2 + 2H2O + heat (energy I suppose)

    I think it's a fascinating area of research - using nature's tools to help us clean up. I remember learning about grasses that grow up in northern Ontario, where an abundance of nickel mines have polluted the soil. The grass there has evolved a way to sequester the nickel in nodes within their roots, and avoid the toxicity. I forsee a system where these grasses can be planted in fields, harvested, and the nickel re-extracted, allowing for a cleansing of the soil.

    To be honest, I think ultimately this world is driven by economy....which means, money. Businesses will never bend because something 'is the right thing to do' (despite what they say in their fancy public relations campaign posters...) But if incentives are offered in the form of tax credits as rewards for lowering emission, or carbon credits that can be traded and sold, change will follow. I think a lot of the research in how economies can handle or be manipulated to take environmental protection into account really compliments the field and lab research going on. It gives a practical means by which large scale change can occur.

    Sue - I agree...my family recently purchased a new car that handles gas more efficiently compared to our old van...we did have the choice of buying the hybrid prius which can run on electricity, but it was simply outside of our budget range. But as Arthur says, I think there are plenty of little things that can be done that not only help save the planet, but may even save you dollars! (ie filling up your printer cartridges with ink instead of buying new ones and tossing the old empty ones)

  • cjwatson
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    People ignore the progress which has been made in energy saving appliances over the past 30+ years. The old tube TVs took far more electricity than our solid-state ones. Back around 30-35 years ago, a very modest window a/c unit in a bedroom took more kilowatts than a central air system today. It's amazing how much more energy efficient our homes are nowadays. And I don't see that we have any more electric/gas appliances now than we had then. Same refrigerator, dishwasher, washer/dryer, TVs, water heater, stove, air-conditioning, lighting, vacuum cleaners.

    And the real energy saver: the microwave oven. Instead of cranking up a big gas or electric stove oven for an hour, you can zap most things in the low-energy microwave in just minutes -- or less. Back in the mid-1950s, my mother took me to an exhibition of what the future kitchen would be like. And they had this big metal unit there, about the size of a refrigerator, and the lady took some cake batter, put it in cupcake papers on a paper plate, and stuck it into this contraption. Just a minute later, she took it out with her bare hands (no potholder?) and the cupcakes were completely baked. Amazement went through the audience. It wasn't until at least ten years later that I saw another one, now much smaller, at the 1964 NY World's Fair. A few years after that, these great energy-saving devices started to be marketed to the public.

    Sue, I have done little things to conserve energy. I have replaced the lightbulbs which stay on for long periods of time with CFLs, like the light at my desk which is on about 18 hours a day. I've switched from taking baths to taking showers to conserve water and the extra energy to heat it -- at least in the summer. I save up and run my driving errands together rather than going back and forth to run a different one each day. We use ceiling fans to circulate the air and can turn the a/c thermostat up a couple degrees in the summer and feel just as comfortable; and can reverse the fans in winter so they pull down the heat which has pooled at ceiling level, and can then drop the heating thermostat a few degrees.

    Lot's of other small things that can be done. It's all related; energy and environment. You can volunteer to help conservation groups. These groups often rely on volunteers to help with fundraising and other jobs: office, phone, and work in the field. Maybe there is something going on in your own hometown you can join in with. Some people get with their local Audubon group and go out and count migrating birds for the research data bank, as an example. Saving energy while letting the environment fail isn't part of any solution nor is the reverse.

    Tossing out just a few ideas. We each do what we can.

  • orchid527
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "The needs of the many overshadow the needs of the few"

    Didn't Spock say this to McCoy?

    Mike

  • orchidnick
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You guys got off topic with communism and Star Wars etc. It's all about saving the planet. I made a major contribution to save our endangered world this weekend. I got a 120 mpg Moped! My carbon footprint is infinitsmal, I'll save so many ecofrindly gallons of gas that would have otherwise contributed to global warming. The world is a safer and better place!

    If you believe any of this dribble, there is a bridge I want to sell you. Email me directly. The Moped is real, the motivation stems from the fact that I spent $300 on gas in the month of July going to places that can be reached easily on a Moped. The car gets 25 mpg, the Moped 120 mpg. Same distance would have cost $60 instead of $300. I drove it all over the place today, had a lot of fun and covered 6o miles. Just for the heck of it, I filled it and sure enough it took half a gallon! There is my motivation.

    I let the tree huggers mother the redwoods, I plan to spend the extra money on orchids, free range collected or otherwise.

    Nick

    PS The Moped is a Tomos ST which cost $1350, has 3 HP and can get up to 40 mph after changing the air intake and the rear sprocket. I got the last one available in SOCAL, there is a waiting list for the next shipment in either Sept or Oct. They are made in Jugoslavia, not in China. Chinese vehicles can be had for as little as $5oo but are junk. A friend of my daughter works on these things and he says the Chinese ones are nothing but problems, he advised me to avoid them. Italian and Japanese models are also very good but way over $2,000 for the cheapest ones.

  • xmpraedicta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nick, you said "I plan to spend the extra money on orchids, free range collected or otherwise."

    Please, do explain. I'm not sure whether you said this to be inflammatory, or whether you actually believe it's OK to buy free-range collected orchids and support an industry of poaching. I just have this feeling that we learn about all the reasons why this is wrong in middle school, so I'm curious as to how you justify this.

  • orchidnick
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is no justification. I don't believe in it and said it just for effect. We have a lot of fun with 'Free Range Chickens' being touted to be better. That's were the term came from. I'm totally opposed to collecting wild orchids commercially, surely we can flask as much as we need.

    Sorry, Nick

  • xmpraedicta
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nick - I should be sorry...didn't really click what free-range meant and misinterpreted what you were saying. Forgive me? :) I wonder how a free range orchid farm would be run.

  • orchidnick
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No problem.

    They air this funny commercial from a 'Green' radio station where the announcer states they are entirely wind and solar powered. Then the guy slowly s l i p s o f f t h e a i r as their mechanism fails. Next you hear chickens clucking and he is back on as their 'Chicken Powered Generator' saves the day. Apologetically he explains that they are free range chickens.

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Calvin. i am the node of Knowledge at the working bee at the local golf club.

    Frustrating!. There are little patches of native vegetation that are being invaded by weeds from abroad.
    "Now leave that one. its a native" Chop. aaauuuuuarrgh

    Being a green tree hugger is hard work because i'm sure that weeds are going to win in the end.

    Clint, if our lot are fatter that your lot. it's a worry.
    Steve Irwin was good for the tourist trade but the problem is stereotypes. No one i know, goes around saying crikey.!!!

    Once met a couple of delightful ladies from Texas on a bus tour. Not like the stereoptype at all.

  • littlem_2007
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    thanks to all for all your suggestions. i am enjoying reading this thread: i like the exchange of ideas and information. some of the little things we do, sometimes only saves a little bit but every little bit adds up. unfortunately for me, i am with nick - whatever i save (and more) has been spent on orchids or things for orchids: fancy pots, "designer" fertilizers, etc.
    cj, those conservationist groups that you mentionned: i may look into them in more detail.
    sue

  • the_analyst
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, another idea if you are interested. Many of the large conservation groups (i.e. Sierra Club, Greenpeace, Nature Conservancy, WWF, etc.) have email newsletters you can receive for free whether you are a paying member or not. I know Sierra Club and Greenpeace often recruit volunteers for various missions through the emails. Also, Sierra Club have local chapters which you can join and often they look for volunteers. Last Halloween, I volunteered through Sierra Club to hand out CFLs to the parents of kids trick-or-treating. Sierra Club gave me 60 CFLs for free to hand out.

    Sarah

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, it is a pity that some non abusive bits got the chop in the recent purging of some entries.... sigh. I'm a one finger typist so i'm not about to retype stuff.

    Interesting about the CFLs, only have one or two of the old filament type left and using 8 watts per light is much better than 40. Though there is always something to spoil the inner glow in that the CFL are supposed to have a little bit of mercury used in their manufacture.

  • littlem_2007
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hi, when the cfl's first came out - i think i paid about $15-$16 each. however, i did change over my lights as the old ones wear out. i noticed a signaificant diff. in my electricity bill and of course, they last for such a long time that i did not have to buy any more bulbs for a long time. i did replace them after 5 years or so even though they were still going strong: for 2 reasons: 1. new ones came out and were more compact 2. i read somewhere that they should be replaced before they die out - i think because of the mercury.
    Sarah, thanks for the info. i will google to see what is here in our area but giving out cfl's for halloween is a good idea.
    to be honest, i was not much of a conservationist until i got involved in orchids and heard some talks on conserving orchids,etc. and the other dreaded thread - which have me thinking much more about it - i have been doing bits here and there: like the green box thing, the rain barrel, cfl's, low energy efficient appliances, etc which i think most households are doing. it would be challenging to become more involved with more like-minded groups. thanks guys.
    sue

  • the_analyst
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, if you are interested in Sierra Club, their website has chapter search based on geographic regions. You will mostly likely find one for where you live. Also, since you are new to conservation, you may like Sierra Club over some other groups more, b/c while Sierra Club is zealous they are a bit less dogmatic than groups such as Greenpeace. Or perhaps, just less extreme in their approach.

    Sarah

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nick, iv'e just realised that my reply to your post was deleted.

    Nothing much except the reference to the bash hat and whether you must wear it otherwise a fine.

    Also, Clone names 'Yondi' refer to plants bred or owned by Sid Batchelor one of the great native orchid Hybridisers here. He has gone to the great orchid growing place in the sky.

  • sambac
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Back to end of world Dooms day- it will be interesting to see if any Archeologist are around here. Happened to stumble upon an article about Mayan Calendar/ Mayan date system: Apparentely it is only dated to about 2012(it goes back 16 millions + years). I truly wonder if there is any validity and truth to this prediction.

  • stitzelweller
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sambac, I will begin USING UP everything by December, 2012. Unlike Y2K, I won't need to hoard. I still have fuel and food supplies from 1999!

  • the_analyst
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sambac, that is true. I always forget that little Mayan tidbit. In fact, I believe the Mayan calendar states the Great Cycle will end at the Winter Solstice, December 21, 2012. Though, there are various interpretations of their calendar. Will the world end caused by cataclysmic events or will humanity begin a new cycle?

    Of course, Nostradamus said the world was supposed to end in 1999. I guess we provided him wrong! Well, unless you follow the course in miracles approach to living an think we are simply part of a dream. ;)

    Sarah

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I googled some of this stuff and of course it sort of makes sense that the earth and the sun circle the centre of the galaxy, but they have done so many times before so why is 2012 so special.

    There is a doomsday cult predicting the end of the earth and they are featured on a program from the National Broadcaster tomorrow night. Must watch.

    We had 1984 , 2000, the coming of Jesus anytime now, and 2012.
    Why are people so interested in the end of the world?. Apart from the scheduled end when the sun runs out of hydrogen, we could have a meteor or a nuclear war. Who knows.

    What is amazing about all this stuff is that ancient people kept and gathered all these records without much other than the power of observation.

    Though it must be said that i do know where the shadow is on the the 21 st June. It is at the base of the clothes-line. Ancient people living in the frozen north must have been terrified that the sun would, one day keep heading south, never to return.

  • the_analyst
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Arthurm - Don't forget The Great Disappointment in which Jesus was supposed to show October, 22. 1844. ;)

    You are right, there are so many prophecies. My thought is enjoy them, have a laugh, but don't take the date seriously b/c we've seen and lived through so many "disappointments."

    Sarah

    By the way, the AFI link seen in the link below is a great song.

    Here is a link that might be useful: The Great Disappointment

  • jodik_gw
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    According to scientists, study of the earth's layers and core samples of coral reefs, coupled with what they already know, reveal that while the planet SHOULD be heading for another ice age, it is heading in the opposite direction due to greenhouse gas... the oceans have risen a degree or two in the last couple of hundred years, and methane is seeping out from under the sea floor at a higher rate than ever before.

    None of this will cause the world to end in our lifetime, but the truth of what's happening, and what we've done to our planet, are concerns for future generations...

    There was a very interesting program on Discovery International channel... last week, I believe it was... and all scientific indications point to the fact that our planet is just about beyond saving... it was a very educational documentary.

  • stitzelweller
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    arthurm wrote,

    "What is amazing about all this stuff is that ancient people kept and gathered all these records without much other than the power of observation."

    A contributing factor to success at growing orchids?

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Stitz, you have mentioned orchids in conversations again. Do people say?"Don't mind him, he's from Baltimore".

    The great orchid growers all have one thing in common. They spend hours and hours every day talking to their orchids. I'm not a great orchid grower but i do spend hours talking to them every day.

    Switch that love to the sun or the moon or major planets and you have astronomers in ancient times watching and wondering.

    In another thread, there is a discussion about breeding dogs. You feed the dogs name into a computer or some such and it says that it will be an OK parent. My prediction in the brave new world is that boy will find girl and before love finds a way, they will have to have their genome checked by a computer. How Romantic!.

    Have to ask my son about Methane seeping from the sea floor and if this is a terrrible thing. I imagine Methane is seeping up all over the place from coal seams and oil fields?

    The word seeping doesn't apply to the Methane produced by cows and sheep and i believe the figure for Australia is that 11% of the carbon emissions comes from agriculture. Must ask about what happen to Methane once it is in the atmosphere. Does it just stay there or does something break it down.

    There is a problem with a lot of those "Science" shows on TV. Many of them are light on Science and heavy with padding.

    Watched the Doomsday thing and wonder about people who get religion in a strong way. They are so certain about everything. Perhaps that is better than being a fuzzy thinker like me.

  • stitzelweller
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do people say?"Don't mind him, he's from Baltimore".

    They might!

    Then they'll wonder, "What happened to Australia's swimmers. Didn't they win medals in the past?"

  • jodik_gw
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    According to the program I saw, the greenhouse gases don't dissipate, but rather build up in the upper atmosphere... the scientific suggestion is that when the oceans temperatures rise enough to cause what's under the sea floor to melt, thus allowing mass amounts of methane into the atmosphere, our atmosphere will become flammable/explosive, and any lightening produced will have catastrophic results. I don't know how much of the programs are truth, and how much filler, but it's certainly food for thought.

    I was raised a Catholic, but as an adult exposed to all the scientific information we know now... I sometimes question how religion fits into it all... and how those beliefs came to be...

    I do believe that organized religion these days is more about the money and license to control... I no longer attend the fancy fashion show that Mass has become, although I do privately retain my spiritual connection to what I personally believe.

    We jest about using technology to pair humans for procreation, but in fact, we could potentially eliminate some terrible genetic problems by doing so... hardly romantic, and I'm glad I had my own choice in partners!

    All we need to do now is add politics to the discussions, and we'd have the largest pile of fuel for a flame war on the internet! LOL!

  • arthurm
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Jodik, my understanding is that the Methane is broken down by UV Light into CO2 and water. So i hope the program didn't suggest what you say because if so , it is twaddle.

    They could have a program suggesting that eating beef is a danger to the planet (and it is) because every-time a cow burps out comes lots and lots of Methane.

    I'm not knocking religion because i think it is a basic human need and to the Catholics i know it is part of their way of life. Some of the way out religions exploit.

    I've never seen a flame war over here.

    Stitz, in my dodders, maybe i got that wrong. i read the thread again and perhaps you are not from Baltimore.

    As for the swimming, do not care that much and will be glad when the Olympics are over. Read the Phelps thread, i'm with Bruce on that one.

  • jodik_gw
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think what the scientists were suggesting was that the amount of methane released into the atmosphere was too much to be broken down or dissipate... imagine not only the methane from agriculture, but also tons upon tons of methane released from the ocean floor all over the planet, all at once... that's a lot of methane... and then there's the greenhouse gases that already exist... not being a science buff, that's how I understood it.

    Catholic people in general are good... it is the richest religion in the world, though, and I have a problem with the small amount actually reaching the people who need it the most. I also have a problem with an organization that merely slaps the wrists of its priests who molest little alter boys, ruining them psychologically for life.

    Religion in general is a good thing... it's wonderful to have that faith, to have something to lean on in hard times...

    Eating beef is only dangerous when the meat is pumped full of growth hormones and steroids... and other chemicals that preserve it and make it look all red and juicy on the store shelf. Real meat is not bright red... as soon as oxygen hits it, it turns a brownish color... but then, not a lot of people butcher their own meat...

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