Its a Tomos ST, if you go to Myron Mopeds, Fullerton, California you get a nice description. It lists it as having 2 HP and a max speed of 29 mph. There is a restrictor plate on the carburator and a larger than factory sprocket on the rear wheel which allows it to qualify as a Moped in the US. Remove the restrictor plate and change the sprocket to a smaller one and the HP increases to 3 with max speed up to 40. I have done that and the difference is dramatic.

For one week I have not used my car, 175 miles so far with one fill up at 100 miles, took 1.01 gallons. I obviously will need to use my car on occasions but not very often and expect to save about $200 a month. I put $300 in my car in July.

Besides that its a kick in the head and a chick magnet! Kidding, but I don't care if people think I look ridiculous (overweight and 67), I'm having fun. One is not allowed on the freeway but can go anywhere else. Plan to go to Palm Springs tomorrow (from LA), will take about 4 to 5 hours but it gives you a different appreciation of our world than one gets zipping along on the freeway. In 4 weeks I plan to visit my son in Redding CA. The non-freeway route takes me through the mountains to Reno and then west to Redding. 660 odd miles, should take about 22 hours of driving and make for a nice adventure.

Anyone else doing something radical about the high price of gas?

Nick

Your new ride is a good idea. We sold our motorhome and are using bicycles to get us around town. If it's raining, we put on raingear and walk. If we need to go out of town, we use our Mazda 3 which gets about 34 mpg. It's 3 years old now and only has about 15K miles on it. One of the really big energy savers for us was to turn our water heater down to about 125. This has saved us about 20% on our electric bill. Seems like these threads have a lot of good information. Too bad some of it was lost earlier this week. Would like to use more CFLs, but many of the lights are on dimmers and others are where it gets too cold in the winter (garage and yard). The big killer for me is the greenhouse. I use propane and and can go through a tank in about 10 days in mid-winter. I think I might let my phals go down to 58 this winter and keep them on the dry side and see what happens. I know that a minimum of 60 is OK.

Mike

Tomos builds them with 3 HP and a top speed of 40 and then detunes the ones heading for the US to qualify them as Mopeds. Most owners immediately uptune them as I did.

Nick

Too true about Motorists not seeing, my wife was involved in an accident a few weeks ago where she didn't see. The guy riding the Motor Cycle put himself in a position of danger by passing on the inside. Lucky, that it was only a glancing blow and he ended up in the ditch pretty much unscathed though the police and ambulance were called.

Just looking at US petrol prices... about $4 a gallon. Way up on what they used to be. My maths say we are paying about $5.50A a gallon here. Still cheap by world standards. Must be hurting some people a lot with big cars bought when petrol was cheaper.

What I'm trying to say is... please be careful! Be aware that motorists around you are, many times, not paying attention to where you are... they're busy talking on cell phones, conversing, playing with stereo knobs, etc... it only takes a split second for an accident to occur... and without a seatbelt and a large vehicle around you, the odds of injury are huge! It takes a loaded semi an entire football field length to completely stop, just as an example.

The pros of riding scooters and/or motorcycles are many... big gas savings, and there's nothing like the feeling of the wind in your hair... and as you move through the countryside, you feel the different temperatures in air pockets change, and smell everything from farms to flowers!

I'd get on the back of a motorcycle again, in a heartbeat! Perhaps one day, we'll buy another.

Please be careful and extra observant when riding, though!

Brooke

My husband thought that was the funniest thing he ever heard.

Not long after that, he went to Lowe's on his scooter, and "mindlessly" bought six - 8 foot, 2 X 4's, 3 gallons of paint, and 4 twelve packs of Coke (on sale!)..............

I thought that was the funniest thing I ever heard.

The priniple is that one has to assume that the car does not see you. Even if I have the right of way, I never claim it, let them give it to you instead. I am a traveling light show at night with blinking red lights and tons of reflective tape. California has a motorcycle license exam, the correct answer to many of the questions is: "Assume the car does not see you and yield"

Thanks for your concerns but I feel safe driving very defensively.

Nick

You might think you've got it covered but one blink of an eye and there's NO DEFENSE against idiots !!! It happens in cars it happens everywhere. In cars you have 10 times the protection ! There IS NO protection on a bike, ESPECIALLY those things you're all raving about !!! They couldn't accelerate out of a wet paper bag !! Nine times out of ten, the throttle is what gets you AWAY from 'THEM' ! AGGRESSIVE OFFENSIVE driving is what keeps bikers alive !! GREAT gas mileage, better up your life and health insurance and if the insurance isn't 5 times what a car's is those agents are also idiots !!

Nick, I wouldn't bet a nickel on your life expectancy !! You've stacked the odds so far against you it's astronomical !! Aren't you past the 20-something immortal stage ?? I WILL give you credit for riding a bike with enough HP to get you out of situations !! Those things they're gambling with are merely motorized bicycles !!

If you can't get this $.80 a gallon obsession out of your minds, do your families a favor and double your life insurance policies and do yourself a favor and take a motorcycle safe driving course because if you don't = YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE A MOTORCYCLE !!!

I wish you all a powerful brain enhancing drink, but I don't have or know of one. Too bad ! Good luck !

1983 Yamaha 750cc Midnight Virago

Chryss, the ALIVE EX-motorcycle driver !

An impressive list of crashes! You must be surrounded by idiots where you live, its not that bad here. It is permitted in California to split (otherwise known as 'share') lanes, even Motorcycle Cops do it. Possibly because of that motorists are more used to cycles passing them all the time. I feel much safer when I'm going a little faster than the cars, passing them continuously, rather than having them pass me. Either that or acting like a car, smack in the middle of the lane, that works too. On the Moped neither strategy is possible, one has to act like a bicycle and stay out of peoples way.

I need to make a left turn on a busy intersection on a daily basis, a white knuckle experience until I adopted an easy way out. Go through the intersection straight in the curb lane and make a U-turn in the service station on the other side. Two uneventful right turns substitute for a hair raising left turn. I think with a little strategizing like that I'll be fine.

Thanks for your concern. When Cortez arrived in the New World, he burned his ships. He felt it would motivate his men. I think I'll cancel my life insurance, that should keep me alive!

Nick

-Bruce C.

I've only had & crashed the Yamaha here, the other 6 were in the SF BAY AREA !!!

You're talking about motorcycles sharing a lane and yes, that helps but how often in traveling does that happen ? I would guess only when you plan a buddy trip or just happen on another bike for part of your commute.

I see your point and again you're right about acting like a bicycle. That's MY point !! You're at THEIR mercies and not only are THEY ignorant but most are also arrogant !! HEY, I did 2 years without a car in the Bay Area and bicycle riding (in traffic) or anything resembling it is an adrenaline pumping way to gamble with your life !!! Too bad it sounds like you traded your beemer bike for a moped ! Have a good time !!! I'd bet a nickel on YOU !

Blessed be !
Chryss

I've only had & crashed the Yamaha here, the other 6 were in the SF BAY AREA !!!

You're talking about motorcycles sharing a lane and yes, that helps but how often in traveling does that happen ? I would guess only when you plan a buddy trip or just happen on another bike for part of your commute.

I see your point and again you're right about acting like a bicycle. That's MY point !! You're at THEIR mercies and not only are THEY ignorant but most are also arrogant !! HEY, I did 2 years without a car in the Bay Area and bicycle riding (in traffic) or anything resembling it is an adrenaline pumping way to gamble with your life !!! Too bad it sounds like you traded your beemer bike for a moped ! Have a good time !!! I'd bet a nickel on YOU !

Blessed be !
Chryss

My husband prefers Fords, so we also have an Escort. Not the prettiest car on the road, but it does go far on a tank of gas.

I gave my ex the Harley, and the current husband prefers speed over a nice slow putt... so, the next bike will be another Yamaha or Honda or something along those lines, I'm sure...

I do miss riding in nice weather... I hope we get another bike fairly soon!

I noticed an interesting twist of the mind. As gas prices have fallen allmost $1.00 per gallon, I should be happy as I now only need $7.00 for my weekly trips instead of the $9.00 when gas was at its peak. My daugther in her Suburban is deleriously happy as she now only needs $100.00 to fill up that gas hog where it cost $120.00 3 months ago. Instead of being also happy, one part of my twisted brain decries any further drops in cost per gallon as it makes me feel less of a genius having switched to the Moped.

The human mind is a wonderous but unpredictable thing,

Nick

With the above "hypermiling" the last 3 fuel tamks have give me 140 to 145 mpg. The Moped dealer where I bought it has customers who routinely get over 150mpg. If I lost 50 lbs, I have no doubts that the way it is set up right now I also would get 150mpg. Why is it only Europeans and Asians know about these things? I'm beginning to see a few more on the road but it certainly is not catching on.

Getting 150 miles to a gallon is so incomprehesible to most people that when I mention it, they at first look at me as if I'm nuts. When it dawns on them that this is real I do get some serious questions.

Nick

In fact, we're loading up everyone to go north this weekend... my husband is taking me to the Chicagoland Orchid Festival! We'll stay with my son and his family, and we'll get to visit with the grandkids! If everything goes according to plan, I should return home by Tuesday at the latest, and have several orchids and a lot of pictures!

150 mpg is some serious savings, Nick! Imagine the Christmas cash you could save up... or the new orchids you could get... there should be quite a chunk of cash in your pocket that wasn't there before the scooter!

Nick

These days, if a car stops because the computer fails. Its call the tow truck.

My late father was a car enthuasist. He used to collect Hudsons. Always had one going with parts from the half dozen or so wrecks that were strewn around the place.

In a way, sort of wondrous, built like tanks, heaven knows what they did to the gallon. In those days no seat belts, so if the car stopped by hitting something, it wouldn't have much damage, but you would. No crumple zone in those cars.

Wonder what he would think of my GM car, made in Germany, assembled in Australia with its seat belts, gadgets, air bags and crumple up design to protect those inside in a prang.

US laws require Mopeds to have less than 2 HP and speeds under 30 mph. Then you don't need insurance, a motorcycle license and yearly registration. In order to qualify for this they detuned it with a carburator restrictor plate and a different rear gear ratio. Now, when put on a dyno, it cranks out only 2 HP and reaches a top speed of 29 mph.

Most owners return it to the original factory condition by removing the carburator restrictor plate and changing the rear gear so we are now back to a screaming 3 HP and a top speed of 38 mph. A different exhaust pipe will further increase the speed but lower the miles per gallon unless the carb is rejetted. I don't plan to do this, I'm happy the way it runs right now.

Nick

Not too shabby for a Ford wagon, built in 1999! The gas gauge barely moved on the 3 1/2 hour trip back home! We've since made several shorter trips to town, and still haven't stopped to fill the tank! We just sold the Neon...

Not too shabby for a Ford wagon, built in 1999! The gas gauge barely moved on the 3 1/2 hour trip back home! We've since made several shorter trips to town, and still haven't stopped to fill the tank! We just sold the Neon...

Gas has become so cheap, I've seen it dip below $3.00, that it becomes less and less onerous to drive a my car. I'm still on the Moped most of the time tough, its just a lot of fun.

Nick

Gaston

What's happening to our car industry is frightening. I have 6 adult kids, here are the cars they and their spouses drive:

Honda Odessy
Honda Accord
Toyota 4 Runner
Toyota SUV mid size, I don't know the name
Porsche Boxter
Toyota small truck
Chevrolet Suburban
Nissan mid size
Cheep wrangler.

2 are thinking of new cars but would not consider buying American as 'They are not reliable'. They are delaying the purchase of what ever until the economy gives them more confidence.

I have a Dodge Caravan 4 cylinder with 205,000 miles on it and no major repairs. Front axle, fuel pump, water pump are the only repairs other than brakes, tires, timing belt and battery replacement which I consider routine maintenance. My kids say I'm lucky and I baby the car but they would not consider buying a Dodge because 'They are not reliable'. A blanket statement with no facts to back it up.

Their attitude is the opposite of what America needs now. They are delaying major purchases and they probably will buy Japanese cars when they finally do. What a frightening situation. Once a good reputation is lost, it takes forever to regain it. What a steep hill American auto makers have to climb! I don't know that they will be able to do it without government intervention.

I'm not only taking about a bailout but protection from foreign products (tariffs), a progressive lic fee which decreases as the % of American products in the vehicle increases, a tax credit for buying American and other measures. I'm sure none of this will ever happen, only Japan, Korea and China are allowed to protect their car makers from foreign competition, we are above that kind of thing.

What a screwed up situation, enough to make one sick.

Nick

The car i am driving was bought from a GM dealer and as i said above it was made in Germany.

Who would want to be a politician? Putting up those protection walls sounds so easy but the genie is out of the bottle and the world has got to be a very complex place indeed.

Now i wonder what the share market will do today. It usually follows what happens in the Engine Room of the world economy (the USA).

It sounds great to say you want to increase the fees and put more restrictions on foreign vehicles but many of these vehicles are made right here in the good ole USA. Anyone here drive a Camry? Toyota builds them, and other models now, in the county just north of me. With Toyota and all the other car supply businesses that have arrived in this area, it is a boon to the economy.

You always hear how many jobs are going overseas but you never hear how many jobs are imported from overseas. Why is that?

It costs $78 an hour to build an American car and it costs a foreign auto maker $38 an hour, why is that?

Don't worry, they will get the bail out or if you prefer, loan but nothing will change except we, the taxpayers, will be deeper in debt. It's illegal for me to print money but the government can and does.

Brooke

In defense of the Union, they have made major concessions so that $78/$38 discrepancy no longer applies. But, no matter how you cut it, the taxpayers are going to get shafted. What really burns me about this whole debacle is that our economy seems to work like a ratchet. When times are good, the CEOs and the shareholders make off with the profits, when times get rough the taxpayers bail the companies out. There should be some way to recoup the profits of the good times but that's a pipe dream.

I'm only whining, I don't know the answers, Nick

Back to car business, my daughter also has a car bought from a GM Australia dealer. This one was made in Spain.

Nick, I agree about CEO's..... many of them are overpaid. Not about Shareholders. When times get rough their shares have have dwindled in value. Don't you believe in free enterprise?

I'm a firm believer in free enterprise. It was practiced with abandon prior to 1928 and we all know what happend then. FDR put some rules and regulations in place which did us well until Reagan removed them. Again the unbridled capitalism without over sight has led to today's mess. I'm not blaming the Republicans alone, Bill Clinton could have re-regulated but elected not to do so.

I think it's the height of irony that Little Bush is forced to what amounts to a mild form of nationalization and a smacking of socialism. The weekend bailout of Citi Group includes assumption of ownership, regulation of CEO's salaries and limiting shareholder's dividends to 1 cent per year until the thing becomes profitable again and the taxpayers are reimbursed.

Same as in 1928 too much of a good thing is not necessarily good. Too much delicious ice cream gives you a bellyache and unregulated shoot for the stars capitalism gives the world a headache.

Things will change, they have to.

Nick

I can't say for certainty but I'm fairly certain the entire vehicles are manufactured here. Many of the parts for the vehicles are also manufactured here in the state by outside jobbers and purchased by Toyota.

If some of the components come from Japan, once they are shipped, someone in the USA is getting paid to get the parts to the factory. Too many people want to see the bad in free trade and none of the good.

A CEO is only overpaid if the company faulters. Blaming the shareholders for the follies of a company is a double edged sword. The stock goes down but they, as taxpayers, get to help pay for the problems.

How much money would it take for you to run GM right now and get them out of this mess? And would you be overpaid if you fail?

You are correct, things are going to change but I'm not convinced socialism is the change I want.

Brooke

I did misunderstand your post. My response is still valid in a non-generic way in that I referred to an article which analyzed so called 'Made in America' cars with more than 70% of contents shipped in from outside the US.

The change I'm referring to is not socialism. Socialism can work, I have relatives in Norway, Austria, Denmark and England. All enjoy good lives, I would not trade with any of them but my life is good. People who are living on the edge in the US are far worse off than the bottom rung in these countries.

I think we need to and we will go back to the regulated and controlled capitalism we saw prior to Reaganomics and I don't have a problem with that. Under FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Carter and Ford we did not have socialism but sensible regulations which prevented the excesses which led to the current problems.

We have full on socialism when it comes to the Fire Departments, the Police departments, roads, airports etc etc. Health care probably needs to be included in this. We pay 3 times as much for health care than virtually all of the Western Democracies and our results are near the bottom of the list. We have universal health care right now. No one is refused care, they just go to the emergency rooms when they get sick. This is the most inefficient and least productive way possible. One could not design a lower performing more wasteful system.

Nick

Nick, you are wrong. Results are near the bottom of the list?

I have an inherited corneal disease problem that I follow closely. I may need a transplant(s) in the future. I can schedule the surgery for December without any problem, with highly qualified corneal surgeons in the USA. Canadians are put on a ten month waiting list for the identical surgical procedure if they can find someone qualified to do the work and when a transplant can be located/transported.

Europeans frequently come to the USA for advanced medical treatments. You don't (won't!) read or hear about it here!

Whining gets print/time in the media.

--Stitz--

"A new study reports that the U.S health system is the most expensive in the world, yet its quality among the industrialized world's worst.

The report, the second national scorecard from this influential health policy research group, shows that the United States spends more than twice as much on each person for health care as most other industrialized countries. But it has fallen to last place among those countries in preventing deaths through use of timely and effective medical care, according to the report by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit research group in New York."

'Preventable' needs explaining. Ovarian cancer is a monster. Impossible to diagnose early and hopeless to treat, it is not included in this group. Colon cancer on the other hand is slow growing and easily diagnosed, PROVIDED ONE BOTHERS LOOKING! With timely colonoscopies it should be nearly preventable. A colon cancer death is ranked as a preventable death. A small number are inevitable but beyond that its an inditment of preventive health care. We have one of the highest rate as our uninsured population can go to the ERs with ailments like rectal bleeding but not for a routine colonoscopy. By then its too late.

Sure, with good insurance, a corneal transplant can be scheduled quicker here than in Canada or Britain, but in these countries ALL of their citizens can get in line. That's the difference.

Nick

Exactly!

Yes, probably more medical advances are made in this country than in any other in the world and treatment here can be some of the best, but who has access to all this? Increasingly, that pool of people is shrinking by the day. That little fact has to be brought into the equation when making a decision as to who has the best medical system and who delivers the most for each $ spent to the greatest number of people.

Kevin

Maybe, the infant mortality in Nicaragua or EL Salvador would be worse if the poor, child-bearing adults remained in their home countries.

Universal health coverage is a laudable goal. We can't afford it for all residents, legal and illegal.

--Stitz--

Nick.

Are you under the impression if we had Universal Health Care colon cancer would disappear? That people with health insurance never get colon cancer and only the uninsured get it? Will the government force everyone to have the colonoscopy? You can offer a person some water but you can't make him drink the colonscopy goo unless he decides to swallow.

Did I miss the news of England being a socialist country? I know I've been busy but I missed that newsflash.

Nick you said "people living on the edge" have it better in other countries. Is it because more people come here for a better life than to those other countries?

Kevin who funded the Commonwealth Fund to do the research. Yes, it would be funded by someone - non-profit doesn't mean they weren't given money by someone to do the study.

Now back to the car industry - I don't know when or who wrote your article on 70% of Japanese car parts being imported but that is not true of all the cars. The people in KY, SC, AL and IN (and probably other states) sure do enjoy working and getting paid by those foreign car companies. On reason AL is becoming a hot spot for foreign car makers is because of the proximity to the B'ham steel mills.

This country may have a few warts but they aren't the ugliest warts I've seen.

Brooke

Brawley [Otis Brawley, chief medical officer at the American Cancer Society] agreed that more needs to be done in prevention, and he noted that the incidence rates and death rates remain higher for minorities and poor people. But he said the new report showed that rates are falling for all groups.

"If you look at the data, you can see there's something positive for black people and white people and Hispanic people. There's something positive for men. There's something positive for women. There's something positive for rich people, and there's something positive for poor people," Brawley said. "It's the first time in my career I can see positiveness for everything in the population, no matter how you slice it."

--Stitz--

I don't have to 'want to pay for the health care of all the people residing in the country' as we are doing this already. Its just being done in an incredible wasteful and nonproductive way. The child of a legal (uninsured) or illegal (also no insurance) individual going to an ER with a cold soaks up several hundred dollars where a $35 office visit could have accomplished the same thing. That money comes out of all of our pockets, a silent tax not recognized as a tax but essentially being just that. We would be much better off steering that child into an office even if we have to pay for it, much cheaper and better results.

I have no illusions and know that will not happen for quite a while but eventually the wealthiest (still?) country in the world with the best health care system (really?) in the world will fall in line with ALL THE REST OF THE CIVILIZED NATIONS OF THE WORLD and make health care a right for all, not a perk for an ever decreasing pool of the insured.

On the cars my source is the LA Times which suggested that even though many jobs are created in the US by the Japanese auto makers producing cars here, there is a fallacy as much of the contents of the cars is manufactured overseas, shipped here and assembled here. Nothing wrong with that except that the Toyota made in Alabama or where ever is not quite as American as it sounds. Japan, China and Korea are all protecting their auto industries by severely limiting our ability to sell our cars over there. Maybe someone in the car industry can correct this if its inaccurate.

Cancer rates have dropped, that is good news which should be and is applauded but probably relates more to a decrease in smoking and other unhealthy habits than our stellar health industry providing yearly chest X-rays and 5 yearly colonoscopies to the uninsured.

I enjoy the benefits of Medicare for which I am grateful, thank you LBJ. I have however a hard time explaining to my European relatives why the aged in America don't need hearing aids, eye glasses or dentures, none of which are covered by Medicare. I guess old people don't really need these things. I take 6 medications but have opted out of the Medicare prescription plan which makes no sense what so ever. After a monthly premium of $39 I get to purchase generic drugs with a co-pay of $10 per month. I can buy the same drug from the same pharmacy for a total of $11 for a 3 months supply as long as I pay cash and don't use my medicare prescription plan. Another drug, which is not a generic, generates a monthly co-pay of $79. Buy the identical drug from Canada on the internet and the cost becomes $27 per month. Does any of this make sense?

Would I consider moving to England, Denmark, Norway or Austria? Not for a nanosecond. Nice places to visit, thank you, but that's all. This does not mean that we cannot improve our situation on many fronts and a healthy discussion is not Unamerican. When evidence obviously points to a better way of doing things an open mind is beneficial.

There was a time in America when people bought fire insurance from the local fire department. After houses with no coverage were allowed to burn down while the fire trucks hosed down the adjoining structures with insurance, it was finally decided that this protection is a civil right. That is not socialism, just common sense. If we extend health care for everybody as a civil right that also does not make us a socialistic nation. By the way, you can keep your guns, America will still be America.

Nick

IMO, when you remove the incentive to be the best, then you won't get the best. That's just one of the things that sucks about socialism.

I grew up fairly poor, my parents never took a hand out for anything and taught us 4 kids the value of a hard days work and now all 4 kids have become more successful than our parents. I'm not so sure this would have been the case if they would have been in lines asking for handouts when we were younger. We 4 are now part of the contributors, not the takers.

What happens when the contributors are mostly gone? Communism?

If they were to take the monies and teach the takers how to become contributors, great... but I think a lot of the takers are happy not having to work to be contributor.

Bob

1)Patients are free to choose who they see. Everyone gets care, same as here, the difference is the overuse of the ER here.

2) Physicians are free to choose who they treat. It behooves them to have nice offices, pleasant staff and good bedside manners. See point #1.

3) Fees are dictated by a third party. (90% of MD fees in America are dictated by HMOs, PPOs and other third party payers.)

4) Both patients and physicians can choose to revert to a cash system and leave the gov mold (or HMO mold) if they choose.

5) Productive MDs enjoy a higher income, capitalism is alive and well. See point #1, #2 and #4.

6) Abuses like excessive surgeries are clamped down upon, just like here.

7) MDs are doing what they do because they love their profession, same as here. Bottom line is less important than most people realize.

Differences are:

1) Great emphasis on preventive medicine. Improves all the statistics and reduces overall cost.

2) Immediate treatment and hospitalization of all urgent conditions. Not always the case here if there is no coverage.

3) Longer wait for elective procedures, not so here if there is good coverage, eternity if there is no coverage.

4) No quilt like coverage, all conditions are always covered.

5) No loss of coverage with employment changes, no pre-existing condition exclusions, no denial of coverage if you are a high risk case.

6) Peace of mind, coverage for the infant, the child, the unemployed adult, the self employed adult, the high risk middle aged, the elderly. Everyone is treated the same.

7) No over utilization of the ER, simply not necessary.

8) No one having to declare bankruptcy because either deductibles or cost exceed coverage in catastrophic situations.

I'm sure I've left out many items maybe some Canadians can chime in.

Again I need to emphasize that I'm not advocating socialism nor do I suggest copying the Canadian system. All I'm saying is that our health care system sucks, poor results at an astronomic cost. Something needs to change, lets analyze how other nations are getting much better results at a much lower cost and devise our own system by cherry picking the best of the other systems. It will probably take a presidential term or two but I believe it will happen. Change is always incremental.

Nick

The article does not go into what % of the vehicles are manufactured (rather than assembled) in these factories but Detroit makes a lot of their stuff out of the US also.

None of this is good for the big 3 automakers but certainly is beneficial to not only to the local but also to our entire economy which is by no means synonymous with Detroit.

Nick

These improved statistics are evidence that preventive medicine through better education is effective. Education is a powerful tool toward improving public health. The result is a reduction in medicine dispensed through pharmaceuticals, needles, machines or fabulously expensive devices.

--Stitz--

The sub-headline singles out "Obesity, smoking, and lack of health insurance remain critical areas for national improvement". Let's look at cigarette use among high school students.

The CDC in July 7, 2006 published in their MMWR, "Cigarette Use Among High School Students --- United States, 1991--2005". An editorial note included the following conclusion:

Evidence-based strategies that can increase the rate of decline in youth smoking include greater exposure to effective media campaigns, comprehensive school-based tobacco-use prevention policies and programs in conjunction with supportive community activities, and higher retail prices for tobacco products (10). (underlining by Stitzelweller)

I have been invited into junior and senior high schools during the past few years. As a concerned member of my community, I participate in classes to help students learn about the dangers of cigarette smoking .

Kevin, you wrote "We're still not doing well." What are you doing? Improved health care is something that every citizen should take more seriously.

We need a grass roots movement from within our population to improve health care. Sitting on the side lines isn't helping.

--Stitz--

"The United States currently falls behind 27 other countries in terms of a healthy life expectancy with an average of 69 years, while Japan leads all countries with an average of 75 years. Some of these differences can be attributed to the inability of the United States to effectively treat disease. The United States has the worst mortality rate from treatable conditions when compared to 18 other industrialized countries. The U.S. has fallen four spots in the last five years.

Results from a UNICEF study found the United States is second to last among 21 developed nations for child well-being as the result of high infant mortality rates, a high percentage of low-birth-weight infants, and an average rate of immunizations. In addition, the United States is last in health care system performance when compared to Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom. Despite spending twice as much as these countries on a per-capita basis, the U.S. is last on dimensions of access, patient safety, efficiency, and equity."

All in all, this isn't what I would expect from this fantastic health care system you seem to imply we have. Yes, people come here from other countries for treatment. Recently in our local news there was a report about some Saudi prince coming to the Mayo Clinic for something or another. While he and his entourage were in town, they spent so much money as to actually bring the local economy of Rochester MN out of the red. In fact, that story wasn't all that unusual. It seems like the Mayo Clinic is the clinic of choice for many folks from oil-rich countries. I have yet to hear a single story about the general population of any industrialized nation with some sort of national health care plan up in arms because they want the same system as the Americans.

"Kevin, you wrote "We're still not doing well." What are you doing? Improved health care is something that every citizen should take more seriously" ------ So what's going on here? I certainly didn't hear you asking that question of Nick or Arthur or anyone else participating in this thread. It's great you're doing the volunteer work you're doing. Quite frankly, that's not my area of interest. Does that make me a bad person? Are we all required to do that type of work? I also don't give money to ending world hunger or saving baby seals although I fully support the work those types of organizations do. My volunteer hours for the past 10 years or so have been spent on housing issues and revitalizing inner city neighborhoods. We're talking new construction, rehab, Eco friendly housing, energy efficient housing, bringing the middle class back to the city, addressing issues of crime and safety. Is that less worthy than what you're doing? We all have our areas of interest and passions. That's mine. Yours is yours

A nation should be judged how it looks after its bottom rung population. We have done very poorly when it comes to that. The change we are about to see is that a segment of the middle class is about to join that group because of loss of jobs, home equities and work related health insurance. When reapplying for new coverage, the slightest preexisting condition will make them uninsurable in the conventional sense. Only by getting new jobs with automatic coverage will many of this group get new policies. The way things look that may be tough.

I believe that this time around the outcry will be loud enough and the ears of the new administration large enough to hear and make something happen. Long overdue.

Nick

And talk about the middle class losing their middle class status re: health insurance - For the past 15 years, I've had the same 2 health conditions. In my last job, there were about 2000 employees, and my health insurance premium was about $170/month, with the company paying the other half.

For years, I've had 2-day long, debilitating migraines. No drug knocked them - or biofeedback or homeopathy or acupuncture, until I got to a neurologist and started Maxalt.

This was several years ago, and there's no generic yet. I've tried some of the meds that didn't work earlier, and they still don't work. Even if some of the newer drugs work, they have no generics, either.

1 Maxalt tablet knocks the migraine and knocks me out for about 8 hours, in contrast to being in bed for 2 days and wretched without it.

Six years ago, my overall deductible was $1000 - my choice - it could have been higher or lower, a month's supply of Maxalt was 12 tablets, and my co-pay was about $5/tablet. Then the monthly amount went to 9/month.

I now work with a small company, and we have a Health Maintenance Account. $2000 mandatory deductible, and my premium is almost $300/month, with the company paying almost $300.

When DH went to get 3 Maxalt tablets yesterday, the pharmacist said the 3 have to last me 21 days!!! So that means I get 4 a month, for a co-pay of about $15/tablet.

If I need more, I'll pay about $35/tablet, out-of-pocket.

Couple that with my income being significantly less at this company for performing the same work as the 11 years before, and it's a bit grim. Believe me, I'm grateful for this job!

DH and I still have a middle class lifestyle, although hardly what it's been before. We're fortunate, compared to close friends w/ 2 teenage boys & and an 11-year old girl - always breaking something or coming down with something. For quite awhile, they were self-employed, trying to bring a family dream back to life. Yes, investment money, but nothing for health insurance.

We've loaned them $$ for broken arms, conks on the head, a couple of terrible cases of flu. Sometimes they went to the emergency room because they didn't have another option for acute conditions.

STRICTLY BECAUSE OF HEALTH INSURANCE, they've abandoned their dream and turned the company over to passionless bean counters. The guy's taken a job for which he has no passion but that provides health care. She has no higher ed and has always been a full-time homemaker. Now she's a part-time aide at the kid's school.

And they're more fortunate than so many in the US - at least one of them has the education, skills, and work history to have the option to re-enter the corporate world and get health insurance.

Perhaps one day, we'll live as people do in other industrialized, developed countries - We have health insurance, period. It doesn't depend on having a job with a company that provides ever-more-expensive health insurance to employees whose real earnings have stayed static since the 1970s.

This country needs to walk its talk and take care of its own before it starts trying to force its talk on other nations.

Humph! Whitecat8

I always think when someone complains about the medical system here that they should hop on a plane and go somewhere else and see the real world.

Then you get those horror stories about someone breaking an arm or similar in the USA when they went there without travel insurance. Horror stories about the bill not the quality of treatment.

Here they have a wonderful system called the PBS which provides certain drugs at far less than their real cost.

I take three pills a day as a preventitive measure only. I'm not sick, but male members of my family have the unfortunate habit of dropping dead suddenly.

I wonder how many people bother to read labels.

Atenolol. Real cost $9.64. Cost to me $5.00
Irbesartan Real Cost$29.81. Cost to me $5.00
Atorvastatin Real Cost $109.82. Cost to me $5.00

Tally it up. Real Cost 149.27. Cost to me $15

If i wasn't retired. It would be dearer, (about $90 a month) but still less than the real cost.

As for volunteer work, i have the impression that the USA is the volunteer work Capital of the world, but i might be wrong about that.

Stitz good luck with your crusade against the evil weed. I have played a round a round of golf or two with a guy who is gasping for breath... but at nearly tee, this guy lights up another fag....

But why pick on Kevin?

My Son in Law works with Workman's comp cases, again legal battles and big bills. The Medical Malpractice field, PI ripoff system etc all depend on the large medical bills generated for which the attorneys can fight each other tripling the ultimate cost while decreasing the ultimate compensation for the victims.

In Canada these are not issues as health care is covered, no litigation is necessary. I believe car insurance is also 'No Fault' although I'm not sure of this. We just need to get over the conviction that ours is the greatest country in the world and we have nothing to learn from the other Western Democracies. We are the greatest country in the world in many aspects but we have plenty to learn from the others and we would be better off if we maintained an open mind.

There is a reason why we spend 2 to 3 times as much for health care as the others while ranking near the bottom in performance stats.

There is a reason why we have 9,000 plus handgun deaths a year while all of Europe has way less than 1,000 combined, but that's another subject.

Instead of vilifying Michal Moore and his movies we should admit that there is usually a fire when there is smoke. We have a lot of smoke but I'm hopeful a new wind will blow some of it away and maybe some one will even even consider attacking the fire.

Nick

Brooke

Nick

My 25 year old daughter finally bought her new car. She compared all the Japanese compacts and selected a Honda Fit. Despite my urging she refused to look at any American car because "They are not reliable". Its going to take Detroit a long time to overcome this prejudice that is probably undeserved at this time.

I, besides the Moped, am still driving my 1990 4 cylinder Dodge Caravan because it never breaks and gets 28 mpg as long as I baby it. Several Chrysler dealers are closing in our area and giving huge discounts, way below their costs. I thought maybe its finally time to upgrade so I callerd one of them to see what kind of a deal I could get. I asked for a 4 cylinder Caravan. The unbelievable answer I got is that they stopped making the 4 cylinder available in the Caravan years ago!

They deserve to go under. Their smallest 6 cylinder is rated at 18mpg city and 22 mpg highway. I told them 'Thank you but no thank you, talk to you in a few years if you get up to speed with what people really want.'

Nick

-O-

Nick

For which price is George W Bush to blame?

--Stitz--

Blame Dubau? That will soon be a distant memory. Of course it is all his fault but it becomes harder and harder to blame everything on him. A new scape goat will have to be found as none of it, of course, is Obama's fault. There is a good supply of stand up comedians amongst the GOP hopefuls (Palin, Trump) but it would be a major stretch to blame anything on them.

The Boner will probably serve that function in the future but he has not been on the job long enough yet. Give him another 6 month and he'll likely become the official bogey man on whose doorstep all of America's ills can be laid.

Nick

--Stitz--

Nick

PS He is unique as most Boners don't get as tanned as he does.

Nancy Pelosi

At least when W was in office, it was because the price of oil was $140/barrel. Why $4 now?

In true actuality, I believe it to be a 'manipulation' of supply/demand most of the time. Nothing like the Saudi's shutting down production and then our price going up because of low supplies??? How about our own refineries only running at <87% capacities? Yet low supply??? Bend over America, I make much more money selling 20 gallons at $4/per than I do selling 30 gallons at $2.50/per. It's the $5 + the reduced cost to produce.

I heard this morning that Obama says he is going to investigate, let's see if it has any effect. I sure hope so. Won't help me when I'm driving @500 miles this weekend to visit Mom, but maybe Memorial Day weekend!!!

Bob