If they've been through the testing - "blood tests, ultrasounds, x-rays, etc" - then the last trip would not be "an unfamiliar environment and unfamiliar people sticking her with needles". It would be another trip to the vet with a peaceful sleep that follows.

You can try to justify it anyway you wish, but a bullet in the back of the head is not a peaceful way to end of the life of a beloved family member.

Brooke - another country dweller

I'm not trying to justify anything... I don't have to. It's obvious that you've never put a gun to the brain stem of an animal and pulled the trigger, if you think it's painful. It's an incredibly peaceful way to go. One milisecond, the animal is suffering... and the next... nothingness. Or a trip across the "rainbow bridge", if you're one of those.

Another obvious thing here, is that certain people don't read what I write... did I, or did I not, say that I sedated my girl before I put her down? I believe I did. Yes, there it is... I did.

How much more peaceful can it get? You're at home, in familiar surroundings, with the people who love you, you're floating in a sedate world, and the people you trust and love are talking to you, stroking your fur, telling you how good you are, and how wonderful you are... and the next instant... nothing. You're gone. You're on your way to doggie heaven, or wherever it is you go next. You have no pain, no illness, you're not old or sick or whatever it was that got you there in the first place. How much easier do you want it?

You can say all you want about a vet office, but most times when a pet visits one, they get stuck with a needle or have a thermometer shoved up their rear... someone they don't see on regular basis is poking and probing every orifice they have. How comfortable is that?

When you're sick and dying, where would you rather be? At home with the comfort of your caring family around you? Or in some sterile, unfamiliar hospital with other sick people and nurses too busy to be of comfort to you, with tubes and monitors attached to every part of your body, forced to dump in a bedpan because you can't out of bed, hoping someone turns you over so you don't get bed sores? Maybe you'd rather die in a nursing home, where death is in the air every day, and there's a parking space reserved for the local hearse?

No thanks... I want to die at home... with my family around me. I want to die in my own bed, with my own familiar things around me. I'm certain if my dog could talk, she'd tell me the same thing.

You know... you people are all ganging up on me for the way I do things... but what you don't realize, is that for every little law that gets passed, like the one in question, one more choice gets taken away from us. Pretty soon, you won't have many choices left... your freedoms are being removed from you little by little... and you don't see it because you're too busy hugging that tree or trying to tell someone else what YOU think is best.

My Father fought in WWII, and lost a lung and half his teeth and part of of his stomach so we could all enjoy the freedom to make choices. How can you sit there and berate me for my choice... you should be happy that we HAVE the choices we have!!! You should be thrilled that you can still make the choice to do what you wish!!! What are you thinking??!!!

Jodik, you are talking as a farmer and that is fine. But most people live in cities and the gun solution is not on.

Now as for the choice thing, that is fine too because the American constitution says you have the right to bear arms. But, there is the price for that little choice and that is the thousands of extra Americans killed every year because a gun is readily available.

Look up the murder rate stats for developed countries and do the sums.

As for the micro chips, no choice here, NSW, Australia. It has been compulsory since 2002.

Don't make assumptions about me. You don't know anything about me or anyone else on this board. I've been around the block a few times, where animals are concerned and I don't have to defend my opinions nor beliefs. There aren't enough laws protecting animals or people from gun-toting folk who find any reason to play God. Laws restricting gun use is good in my book.

I grew up in a 'gun-toting' family. Father in WW1, eventually died from his injuries. One brother in WW2 another in Korea. My son served 7 years in the US Navy and was in the Gulf War. Now disabled. My oldest brother was a NYC cop for 25 years and was shot 3X by hoods with guns. I was taught to shoot when I was 5 and was dam good at it. Don't talk guns to me. In my 57 years, I have seen what they can do and, as a result, would do anything in my power to ban them.

Need I remind you, you started this discussion.

Jane

Well... as us gun-toting farm country people say, guns don't kill people... people kill people. Guns are just a tool. If someone wants to kill another person, not having a firearm isn't going to deter them. It's very unfortunate that the misuse of firearms by some will eventually ruin it for everyone. Freedom comes with a high price... this is very true... but wouldn't you rather pay that price than NOT have the freedom to choose how you live your life?

All of my children attended a hunter's safety course when they were quite young, and all have valid FOID cards, as do we. I believe that if there are guns in a household, everyone should know how to safely handle them. But these are only my opinions, and no one has to respond with how horrible it is to hunt, or how terrible it is to own and use firearms. As it stands right now, it's still my right, and my choice.

That's the whole point, here... having choices, and using that freedom responsibly. I can respect the fact that others don't agree... what kind of a world would it be if everyone was exactly the same, and thought exactly the same? Not very exciting. By the same token, I think others should respect the fact that I use my choices responsibly. It's important, that as Americans, we try to keep the freedoms our ancestors fought so hard to achieve, and have left in our care. Part of that freedom includes being tolerant of others and their choices, whether it be religion, political views, or whatever.

When we hunt, we don't just take the trophy rack and leave the rest to rot... we use everything. Even the scraps and bones get used. When we euthanize animals, we do so respectfully. Responsible breeders balance between compassion and commitment to their chosen field. Real life is sometimes messy, and there are a lot of gray areas to sort out... life isn't always clean and perfect, and things don't always go the way we want. But at least we have the right to choose how we will live and what we will do.

As for the micro-chips... we found that shipping dogs to Australia was quite the ordeal. Toward the latter part of the 1980's, and up to around 1999, we had several requests for pups. To date, I don't think any of our stock is in Australia. I'm not entirely sure which kennel did ship AB's Down Under, but I know some were shipped around that time, and used as foundation stock.

I would never begin to assume anything about you, Jane. Surely you know what they say about assuming things, for heaven's sake... it's not necessary to assume anything when most people make their views quite clear in what they write. I think the problem is that people don't read carefully enough, don't finish reading before responding, or don't think before they respond, in a lot of cases.

No one is asking you to defend your opinions or beliefs... they are your own, and you're certainly entitled to them. I respect the the fact that you have your own set of beliefs and aren't afraid to express them. By the same token, you should respect my entitlement to opinions and views, and I shouldn't have to defend them, either.

It's amazing what you can learn about people in the nuances of their writing and responses... if you read carefully, and without bias, that is. I don't profess to know you any more than you can know me. All we have to go by is what we type, and though the written word can be rather telling, it's in a more general way. Problems begin when one person doesn't read another's response in its entirety, or perhaps looks for meanings that aren't there.

The entire reason we enjoy the choice to pick up our keyboards and get into discussions is because our forefathers served and fought, and sometimes died, to gain that right, and to keep it. How would you enjoy living in a society where you were afraid to speak your mind? What would it be like to live in a country where you couldn't express your opinions, but rather had to keep everything you really thought hush-hush... where the expression of opinion could get you or a family member kidnapped, tortured or even killed? It happens every day in some part of the world, and we call ourselves a civilized species.

I have more than one family member who served in the Armed Forces, and more than one that was drafted or volunteered to go and fight on foreign soil to preserve our freedoms, and help gain them for others. Several still bear the wounds from those wars, whether physical or psychological. I, myself, had the opportunity to wear a LE uniform, complete with a badge and gun, for just over a year. I had the opportunity to attend many Justice Department Seminars and Classes on different, and very sick and sordid, subjects. It was I who put together and implemented an Immediate Response Team, sorely needed, in the area for the victims of Rape, Spousal and Child Abuse. And, I passed the state firearms test with flying colors.

I can barely count the blocks I've been around in my lifetime... which included, but were not limited to, dairy and crop farming, owner/operator tractor-trailer driving coast to coast, shipping and receiving, metal and tool shop drill tipping and grinding and centerless grinding, injection molding machine operator, generator and machine assembly, waitress/hostess and cook, sales and bill collecting, greenhouse and garden center manager, law enforcement and security, canine breeder and kennel owner, magazine editor/writer/publisher, conformation show host and announcer... and last, but certainly not least, wife and mother, and grandmother. In between all those different occupations, I'm sure there were many more of lesser importance, such as gas station attendant, back when your gas tank was filled for you, and we checked your oil and washed your windshield. Many times, I was self-employed, and many times worked for someone else. I graduated high school and went on to get a degree from the school of hard knocks and common sense, as I'm sure many of previous generations have, not having the wherewithall to attend a university.

Your opinions on firearms are your own, too... and isn't it nice that you have the choice of for or against? I'm for, and I'm glad I have the choice to own and use my firearms!

Banning firearms will only take them out of the hands of those who are registered, responsible gun owners, and those few that are confiscated when perps are caught... but how do you profess to get the guns out of the hands of the criminal element? For every registered gun in America, there are probably 200 that aren't! And quite a few of those are fully automatic machine guns and other weapons, or high powered sniper rifles, not to mention all the handguns, tazers, grenades, explosives and other weaponry that never go on record. How, pray tell, do you think all those weapons can be taken out of circulation and off the black market? It seems like a daunting task... and it seems rather unfair, to me at least, to take the weapons out of responsible hands, when the criminal element has more of them and are the very ones who will use them on human beings without a second thought.

I consider changing the natural selection process by breeding, playing God. And I, for one, do it very responsibly. I take the task very seriously... I don't just throw two dogs together and hope they tie, then call myself a breeder and collect cash for huge litters of pups, back to back. That's not responsible, but it sure does keep those shelters and rescue organizations in full swing, doesn't it? And just as with guns, for every responsible breeder like myself, there are at least 200 out there, with very little to no knowledge, pumping out multiple litters every 6 months, and collecting whatever price the market will bear for whatever breed it is they have. Take a good look at the pet sections of the larger newspapers, and the breeder sections in magazines like "Dog World", for example... how many of those people have studied canine genetics, do you suppose? How many of those people cull when necessary, or screen perspective buyers, do you suppose? And ultimately, how many of those peoples' sold animals will end up at the door of a shelter or will need rescue, do you suppose? I'm betting quite a few.

I don't mind one bit being the one who starts a discussion... I think debating and discussing current events and other ideas is interesting and educational... I like to hear what other people have to say. What I don't think is right is jumping the gun, so to speak, and berating someone else for their opinion as though it were wrong and without merit. There are two sides to every coin, and while you may not agree with one of those sides, it still exists and still has every right to be expressed and examined.

For example, I can respect the fact that a person may not believe in the killing and eating of animal flesh, or in animal testing for certain products... but don't stand there in leather shoes, carrying a leather briefcase, wearing a coat with a fur collar, and tell me that I'm wrong for hunting.

I enjoy a good debate, or discussion... as long as the players are intelligent, display common sense, think before they respond, and are aware that their opinions aren't the only ones.

All it takes is to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and your humble correspondent would not not be writing this. Just two weeks earlier and i would have been at the shopping centre where one Wade Francum arrived one day with his high powered rifle.

As it was we arrived as they were clearing away the tributes, floral wreathes and the like and the general air of gloom around the place was so depressing and all because of the freedom of a person living in a city to possess such a weapon.

Of course, no one could predict that Wade who seemed so normal would snap.

The shooters party here peddle the same line about guns not killing people and it is bulldust.

But, there are so many guns in America that i do not know how you are going to get yourselves out of the mess.

Seeing i do not know what the current population of the USA is. i challenge someone to do the sums using the murder rates of say the UK and let us know the price of the cost of your so called freedom to have a firearm in the the number of extra American Lives lost every year.

I'm of the belief that when your number is up, it's up... and no amount of rearranging your life is going to stop it. Take away the guns, and you'll get hit by a passing truck... ban trucks, and you'll fall down a flight of stairs and split open your skull... ban stairs and you'll die of cancer... cure cancer and you'll get stabbed in a parking lot... etc... etc...

While it's very true that more and more incidences occur, like the one you describe, I don't think you can effectively stop that from happening... if the guy couldn't get a gun, he'd make a bomb.

When my number is up, it's up... I'm ready to go. Today is a good day to die, as Native Americans say, and I am fully prepared to go, with no regrets. It's not like I have any control over that, anyway... unless I commit suicide, which I won't. I could've been there, and been a victim of that mass shooting... it just wasn't my day.

I think the fact that a certain amount of people die every day is God's way of culling... of keeping some semblance of balance in the world. So is disease, war, etc.

Removing guns from the hands of the responsible few, while more guns remain in the hands of the unknown, is not the answer to the big picture... it's only one tiny piece of the huge puzzle called "Our Twisted Planet". I think AIDS kills more, or equally as many people as do guns, every day... as does cancer, war, hunger, addictions, obesity, abuse, accidents, etc... guns can be good as well as bad, but I don't believe we can say the same thing about AIDS.

In the unlikely-hood of a cataclysmic event, I would still like to possess the ability to protect and feed my family. Should my all-knowing government decide that I cannot handle the responsible ownership of firearms, how will I be able to do that? Not very well, I should think.

Even if a law were actually eventually passed where every firearm were to be turned over to LE, how many people do you really think are just going to roll over and acquiesce? A few, maybe. Most certainly not all... and most definitely not I.

God forbid, but if something were to throw our country, or the world, into a state of chaos, I reserve the right to take care of my family... to keep them from harm, and hunt to feed them. I can most effectively do that with my cache of weaponry and reloading equipment.

I know I couldn't rely on the government to jump in and protect us or care for us properly, and in a timely fashion... the aftermath of Katrina certainly proved that much. There are too many people, and too many bad people, in the world... I would much rather rely on my own ingenuity for survival.

Statistically, what's the ratio of guns that have never harmed anyone vs. guns that have? I don't have to be good at math to figure out that more guns are safely in responsible hands, than there are guns being used to shoot humans in the commitment of crimes.

Guns are only one method, or tool, used in the slaughter of innocent victims. How many people die in prison every day? How many of them have guns? Virtually anything can be used as a weapon, and if someone wants to kill, not possessing a gun isn't going to stop that person.

Guns are not the real problem... the problem is a society that has become numbed to a certain extent by having violence and blood and gore and death spoon fed to it through mass media! Our kids grow up playing violent video games and watching violence on television and in movies... we've become so used to seeing it portrayed by Hollywood, that it deadens us to it.

People don't respect each other anymore... our children aren't getting the good attention they need, and as parents, we're almost afraid to discipline our children for fear of it being taken out of context, and the government stepping in... we're so busy working two jobs to keep our households afloat, many of them single parent, that we don't have the time to spend teaching our children... the younger generations barely know the difference between right and wrong... I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Society has changed drastically within the span of 50 years, and not for the better... but that's an entire discussion unto itself...

I remain, pro gun.

Anything to get a break from typing show results..... I would have been at an orchid show at the centre when Wade went off his tree.

No one wants to do the sums?

Assuming 300,000,000 Americans
That is approx. 128406 of your citizens bumped off each year by various means. (US Murder rate stats)
Applying stats for a country where guns are scarce as hens teeth (UK) and applying the figure to the US population we get 42189. and that difference is the price of freedom when too many people have too many guns.
Of course i'm making assumptions, but i think you are defending the indefensible.

Well, Arthur... it's like everything else... the few that can't handle responsibility, always ruin it for those who can.

I'm very glad you were not at the wrong place at the wrong time...

Wow, first of all this has strayed so far away from my originial intent of this thread.

Second, here is my part of chiming in. I live just outside of Philadelphia. A city with soring murder rates. Last year, there were a few hundred murders. The Philadelphia DA had this to say in April of 2007, "Now we have youngsters as young as 13, 14, 15 with Tech nines and Mac tens, and semi-automatics." The majority of the murders in Philadelphia were by people with guns. Yes, I agree with you Jodik in that people had the guns. However, I disagree with you in that there should not be more guns pertaining to owning a gun. A few hundred murders is too many murders. I do not believe all of these victims were simply "at the wrong place at the wrong time." These are cold-blooded crimes and a gun is a quick as easy way to do the job. Do you think there would be as many murders if people didn't have guns and used swords (just an example)? Of course, guns will still be existence whether there are laws or not. But I do think there needs to be stricker guidelines, b/c if one life is saved perhaps that is better than what we have now.

Sarah

The subject may have changed, but the underlying answer is the same: If everyone involved could exercise responsibility, the problems wouldn't exist. The question could pertain to most anything in today's society... pet ownership and breeding, guns, anything...

The unfortunate thing, Sarah, is that those "kids" with the Mac tens and other automatic weaponry don't give a rat's red rear about regulations and laws... enact more laws, but the responsible people with registered weapons are the only ones that abide by those laws. Enacting more laws won't help. Unregistered, fully automatic weapons will still be in the hands of those who don't care about laws, or who they hurt by what they do.

So, what's the answer? I don't know... but I don't think it's taking away the guns of those who ARE responsible and law-abiding. It's always the few bad apples that spoil the whole bunch.

My question is... how do you propose to enforce new laws enacted, what should those laws state, and how can the weapons be removed from the hands of those who are NOT responsible?

Until we can find a miracle cure, society will keep plummeting downhill... and murder numbers will keep rising, whether gun-related or not.

Jodik, I know in Philadelphia, Mayor Nutter wanted to create a law that would limit the amount of guns purchased in a year. Yes, you are right that those kids with unregistered/illegal guns don't give a crap. However, the idea was limiting the amount of guns people can own may prevent guns getting into the streets. Less guns to be stolen or bought and then resold, etc.

Sarah

I know I probably sound like a broken record, but while that law might keep a few more guns from getting into the wrong hands, it's only a drop in the bucket.

I would imagine that a large amount of guns are illegally imported, or smuggled, into this country annually, and at a huge profit to someone. Money makes the world go round, and not always in a good way.

The bottom line is... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink... in other words, we can't make people be responsible and good and use common sense.

Here, there's a waiting period between the time you purchase a handgun, and the time you can pick it up from the dealer. I suppose it's probably saved a few lives by being a cooling down period for people with anger issues, but ultimately, if someone wants to kill someone, they're going to do it, no matter what tool they use or how long it takes to do the deed.

I think that if we look at the big picture, though, most people are good and most are fairly responsible. The media doesn't show that, though... they get better ratings when they show the blood and gore, so that's what we see more of.

As a responsible gun owner, I just want my choice to keep and bear arms protected. I don't want to lose that right because of a few idiots.

Wow, and I was about of post pics of my canines and felines - I even have a 'nappy time' group photo!

Another missed thread -

I would love to see pics of MORE canines and felines in this thread!

Please do post pet photos! I love seeing what everyones' companions look like!

As it happens, I just snapped a couple of shots yesterday... these are the horses and one of the new little goats that live here... they're not mine, but they are wonderful to observe, and they help keep the gardens fertilized!

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Here's a sample of what's going on here. :-)
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Albino Ring-neck Dove Chicky

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Baby Cockateil, Spike, ~maybe~ 3 weeks old?

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Just 3 days later. BIG changes, no? :-)

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Olive

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Zorro kitty giving Rani, GSD, a facial. :-)

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Barry, the Robin, who we have cared for since his car accident in April. LOOOOONG story!!!!

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Ya just never know what might happen in this neighbourhood!

I love all the animal photos. Ug, my calico, would love to have a deer come up to the window. We don't have deer in my neighborhood though. I did catch her chatting with a groundhog the other day.

Sarah

Great photos, Chick!

I have to ask... what was the robin doing driving a car in the first place?? LOL!

I think my favorite is the deer looking in - cat looking out photo! How in the world did you happen to be right there with camera in hand?! I always miss the good shots!

At one point in my life, I had several parrots and birds... when I got my CDL, I had to sell them... we weren't home to care for them. Luckily, they all went to the same home... a wonderful woman who had a huge aviary in her home, and was beyond dedicated to birds! I had an African Grey, a Cockatiel, a Peach-faced Love Bird, and several finches. Babe, the Grey, talked up a storm!

What I need, is a camera small enough to carry everywhere... so I can get those really awesome shots as they happen!

Jane, your viewpoint is embittered by your family's unfortunate events. And like most of our surprisingly ignorant or, a better explanation would be, ulterior motivated senators and congressmen you seem to forget that ONLY law abiding citizens OBEY gun laws !!! How can you and our lawmakers believe that banning guns will ban crime ??? Do you really think criminals give a sh*t about laws ??? Especially GUN laws ??? Unless, of course, you watch American TV and BELIEVE what you see or DON'T see on the boob tube, the distributer and promoter of biased MIS-information !!! GROW A BRAIN !!! You too, Arthur, look up the stats on the UK after their TOTAL gun ban !!! Their crime rate has QUADRUPLED !!! It is now safer to walk through Central Park after dark than the streets of London !!! And GOD forbid that you try to defend yourself from burglars, muggers, or any other criminals in the UK !! You'll be sued for any injuries caused an attacker and his defense will be financed by the state !!

You're right about choices Jodi !!

I envy you the vet you found Stitz ! I've found two BAD and one VERY BAD vets in this DC area that I'll put down to anyone who'll listen !!! Just because they passed through vet school doesn't make them a good vet !!!

Enough of that - - -> now to the serious stuff !!!

Ulysses & Crosby
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Ulysses
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Ulysses
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Crosby
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Crosby & Ulysses
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My two best buddies. They died at 18 years old each, Crosby in 2005 and Ulysses in 2006. Ulysses was a Blue Lynx point Siamese (Tabby point in the UK) abandoned at 9 months old to the pound and Crosby was the last of a barn cat's litter (Crosby was the brand of my saddle). I am still grieving and do not want any more cats, I've got my hands full with my 'chids !!! I've since found homes for 3 strays that I'm suspecting were directed to my house by my buddies' spirits !! And YES, torties are IMHO, like Irish leprochans !! Mischievous and full of IT !!! I had one that went with my EX when we split and one of the strays was a tortie. NEVER would or did abandon any animals and anyone who can do such a thing is a very shallow person ! If the apartment didn't allow pets. we went elsewhere until we found one that DID !!! NO EXCUSES are justifiable to shun the responsibility of a pet !!

Chryss

The stats do not lie. You have about three times more chance of being murdered in the USA than in the UK or here for that matter. I do not have a solution. The genie is out of the bottle in that you can get a gun more easily there than here.

Anyway, that is your business. The constitution says you can bear arms.

Here we go again, caps and rudeness too.

The plain fact is that most people know their killer. The Wades of the world do a lot of damage but most people are bumped off by wives, husbands, lovers. All you need is a little domestic with a gun handy and Blam!.

Great photos, Chryss... and I'm very sorry for your loss.

It's very true that most victims know their attackers, and many murders are committed by family members or people the victim knows. Most guns are shot within 15 feet of who they're aimed at. This is where common sense comes in handy... I don't care how mad I get, or how much I hate a person, or how handy a weapon is... there isn't anyone on earth worth doing prison time for! Revenge comes in the form of karma, and as everyone knows, is best served cold... what comes around, goes around. It's very true that what you do comes back to you... I've never exacted revenge, but it always seems to happen to those that deserve it, in one way or another.

If we're talking about protecting family members, it's a different story... I'd sit in prison for protecting my children or grandchildren... no doubt about it. And if the attacker I injure sues me... good luck... it's mighty hard to get blood out of a turnip! Take a number and get in line! LOL!

On the lighter side of life... these are pups from the last litter I helped whelp. These are siblings to my girl, Maia.

Teddy Toad
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Sparky
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Mr. Happyfeets
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The keeper, Maia
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As a footnote, the entire litter had homes before they were born. Some had them before being conceived. There's a waiting list for the next litter, which won't be for a while... maybe next year.

Awwwww. Ulysses and Crosby looked like the best of friends. And those puppies! LOL! Who couldn't love them? :-)

If you have insomnia, the story ... on going ... about the Robin is linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Barry's Story

chicka3D, That's a tearjerker story that might make a Hawk cry!

Hiya Stitz.

Tearjerker? It has a potential outcome. My story about Bea is the tearjerker. Mario too. :*(

Barry's story isn't done. Just waiting for the tail feathers to grow in then he can go. I *hope* it happens before winter so he's not a prisoner until spring.

Do you have any critter photos to share with the class?

Good for Barry!

No critter fotos, today. My primary fotos are of my orchids and I don't have any of those ready, either.

Winter is a great time for pics!

--Stitz--

Hopefully, Barry will recover in time to fly south with his kind, and hopefully, fly above traffic from now on... you're very lucky to have the equipment necessary to save lives at your disposal... not all animals are as fortunate as Barry, to be brought to a caring vet when they've been injured. Barry's guardian angel was working overtime that day!

I had the opportunity to visit with two of Maia's littermates the other day... Mr. Happyfeets (now called Ty-Ty), and a female not pictured, Steva... they have grown into beautiful young, almost adults! The two brindle youngsters live together. Steva is a carbon copy of her mother, Emma! Ty-Ty has his mother's coloring, but is definitely more like his father! I'm exceedingly pleased with the outcome of this litter! Exceptional Olde Bulldogges!

This is the Mama... Emma.
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One of my regulars. She is the only one who figured out how to take 2 peanuts at a time !!

Blackie
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Chryss

with all of the virtual gun-slingin' orchidists here, is that squirrel safe?

Not in my backyard! But not because of me, 'Blackie' would never had considered moving in with the guards who oversee my property, that is, the K-9s and the Felines. My orchids are safe outside!

Carolyn

Emma! You're adorable! No wonder you have such fine lookin' pups, Jodik. :-)

Blackie would be welcome any time here. Years ago we had a resident squirrel named Cookie. She *loved* vanilla wafers. LOL! Each year we might lose one to three orchid plants ... kidnapped into the squirrels nest high in the weeping willows. Sadly we have no squirrels in the yard now as crazy Daisy the dog has chased them out and to my horror killed two! :*(

I'd rather have a squirrel orchid thief who decorates her nest with a vanilla orchid, tree fern and a Masdi. instead of some scumbag schmuck who takes off with about 22 orchids!

(Getting my SECOND order from Andy's Friday to help heal the wounds ... or more honestly give in to an orchid compulsion. LOL!)

3DChick

We have reds and grays, but I've never seen a black squirrel up close and personal! Pretty nifty!

Actually, I don't see many squirrels up close, at all... the dogs usually chase them out of the fenced yard area... in fact, way up north in the little town I'm from, there's a squirrel missing about half of the bushy from his tail.... Buddy, the Olde Bulldogge, chased him to the fence and darn near caught him... came away with a mouthful of fur! I'd almost say that squirrel deserved it... he sat in the backyard oak every day, teasing and chattering and laughing away at poor Buddy, just out of jump reach... he'd jump down and initiate a chase across the yard... and one day, Buddy was a little faster!

Thanks, Chick... Emma and her mate, Juggling Toad, make great babies together... don't ask about the name, cause I couldn't tell ya... Toad is my son's dog! LOL!

I'm glad you were able to replenish your orchid collection. What is this world coming to when even our houseplants aren't safe?! So, what'd ya get?

Juggling Toad! What a great name! :-)

Question please, for you Jodik. Is there genetic testing that could be done on a stray dog that was adopted? How could I tell if she is predisposed to ... vaccine reaction, microchip reaction, certain types of cancer ... whatever? Is there a way? Thanks for any info!

My Andy's order?

I already got a Ceratostylis / species, Aerangis citrata, Stelis eublepharis and a Platystele ovatlbia. None in flower yet but all beautiful! On Friday I'll get three more little guys. They are the very cool Lepanthes pilosella, the beautiful and *very* cute Lepanthes calodictyon and an Oncidium incurvum. :-) They'll all be added to my kitchen window planty thing garden.

C3D

Nice choices! I'm sure you'll be happy with them all!

As for the dog... I'm kind of old school, so I'm not certain there are specific tests for what you're interested in finding out.

The reason I know what my dogs are "made of" and predisposed to is that I have complete histories going back many, many generations... both on paper and in what I've witnessed. I know who the ancestors are on both sides of each of my dogs, and I know their histories, so I know what to expect.

I know what health issues I'll face, what sort of temperament I'm dealing with, intelligence level, physical capacity, etc...

When you adopt a stray of questionable background, you really have no way of knowing what you might be in for, beyond the obvious. Sometimes, it's not even certain what breeds comprise your pet... a knowledgeable and experienced individual could take an educated guess... but even if you know what breeds, you have no idea of specific bloodlines, so basically, you're flying blind.

If medical and technological science has progressed to the point where certain tests could be done, they'd most likely be expensive. I'd say that if you've had your pet vet checked, and he or she is healthy, enjoy your time together, and don't worry so much about every little thing.

Even if you know certain things could crop up, there's no guarantee they will, and no guarantee there's a cure if they do. Sometimes, not knowing is better!

What breed is your dog? Or, if it's more than one breed, do you know which ones?

Am I mistaken, I thought you were a veterinarian C3D?

If you are referring to your Elkhound as the stray, you can contact the Parent Club to see what the breed is predesposed to and if any DNA work is being done on genetic problems within the breed. If you don't know how to contact them, the AKC can give you the contact info.

Allergic reactions to vaccinations is usually evident at the time the first puppy shots are given within a matter of hours. Benedryl will stop the reaction in minutes. You can have one puppy in a litter react and the littermates will never experience a problem. For future vaccinations, a shot is administered prior to the vaccination to stop the reaction.

I don't understand what type reaction you expect from a microchip. It is either injected properly or it was injected improperly and you can't read it. The problem of the chips travelling is more likely improper placement in the beginning. The instances of cancer at the injection site is miniscule when comparing that number to the number of animals with the problem.

The DNA studies being done on various breeds is not expensive to you. The money for the studies comes from grants and donations. It involves a cheek swab administered by you sent to the organization doing the study. Usually only one organization studies one problem so you might have to do multiple swabs.

The best part of these studies is when one breed of dog has a genetic marker ID'd as the bad gene, they can unlock the genetic marker in other breeds. The marker is not identical but it will share some of the same characteristics and makes the next ID for a different breed much easier.

So are genetic tests expensive - no - not for the person submitting the DNA but you have to have a base line study occuring somewhere for the particular breed.

Brooke

Thanks Jodik and Brooke for the information.

Daisy, the Elkhound-ish dog we have was literally tied up to the dumpster behind our animal hospital 2 years ago. I know that certain family lines may have their health issues and was curious if one could do some tests on a random dog to find potential future problems. Being forewarned is to be forearmed.

The microchip reaction I was concerned about was the potential for a soft tissue sarcoma developing at the site. I have two patients with this most evil tumour. Of course it's like anything and some may have reactions and others don't. It may be interesting to do some genetic tests if it would help dogs in the future. Daisy was already spayed when she was abandoned. Her incision wasn't healed yet!

I am a vet but there's soooooo much information out there and new stuff becoming available every day. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything about anything and am grateful when people share their information so I can be more edjakated. :-) Thanks again!

Here's a link to the AKC home page to help keep you edjakated :>)

Scroll down the left side and you will find a link to Health - it will give you lots of other links to follow and answer some of your questions.

Brooke

That was my next line of thought, which is why I asked which breed(s)... if you know the exact breeds your dog is comprised of, you can find out what types of genetic problems those breeds are currently experiencing or predisposed to within their ranks. Not all bloodlines will have the same problems, but unless you know the exact lineage, the only information you you'll get will be general.

I can't comment from personal experience on microchip damage, as we don't use them. I can say that we've never had a problem with tattooing for identification purposes, though.

As I said, we're old school... we've been working with the same breeds, and the same basic genetic pool, for well over 25 years, so we have a pretty good idea of what's "hiding in the woodpile". We've worked hard to keep the pool clean, so to speak, and have been successful at eliminating the problems we CAN deal with through breeding.

Our work with our chosen breeds has given us exactly what we wanted... genetically clean, healthy, temperamentally stable, balanced, intelligent, discretionary, physically able working dogs with longevity, that fit well into the parameters of their Standards.

The tools at our disposal were rather primitive back in the day... we used x-rays, ultrasounds, bloodwork, and basic veterinary knowledge, and coupled that with history, experience and personal observation. It helps to have a good eye for what constitutes a decent dog. It also helps to keep and observe certain dogs throughout their lifetimes.

We didn't have the DNA studies and all the new breakthroughs in veterinary science, but we did have a goal... we kept our eyes on the big picture, kept kennel-blindness out of the equation, sacrificed the few for the good of the many, and we've successfully met our goal.

I don't know very much about Elkhounds, it NOT being one of the breeds we've worked with. But as Brooke said, you can contact their parent club and find out everything you need to know about the breed in general. Anything I tell you will be old-fashioned in comparison to the information you have at your disposal.

Our "dog careers" are winding down now... we're semi-retired with a very small yard. The work is just too much for me, physically. We'll always have dogs, but we've put in our time within the "Bulldog World"... it's time to sit back and let the next generation take over... and God help the Bulldog! :-)

Thanks so much for the link, Brooke. I duuno much about the Elkhound either but we'll figure it out over the years. Thanks so much, Jodik and Brooke for your information. :-)

A strange looking animal... with the racing stripes and goggles! Cute little pink nose!

Once you have a good understanding of the Elkhound's history, and you find out what genetic problems the breed has, you'll have a better idea of what to watch for in the future.

Keep in mind that half of an animal is genetic, and the other half is environmental. Since you can't control the first half, and really don't have a clear picture of it, make sure you provide the very best environment possible... this includes diet, exercise, training and emotional support.

Personally, I'd stay away from commercial feeds containing a lot of fillers, preservatives and grains. I'd work with the dog in basic obedience, which will help build love and trust, not to mention creating a well-mannered companion. It's a good way to spend quality time together, too.

In your position, I'm sure you know all this. I have found that working with my dogs, praising them for good work and correcting poor work, really makes them feel good... after all, their mission in life is to make YOU happy! When you're happy, they're happy!

All *very* good advice, Jodik! Daisy is crazy but a very nice dog .... aside from her murdering ways!
*~*~*~*~*~*

Ladies and Gentlemen...

The main bout is about to begin!

It has been long rumoured as The Mis-Match of the Century. Those rumours are about to be laid to rest as our competitors enter the ring.

In the red corner, at nine weeks old and wearing her tiger striped jammies; weighing three pounds three ounces .... Marcie the kitten.

In the blue corner, at one year four months of age in her black, silver and tan coat, weighing 82 pounds ... Rani the German Shepherd.

The referee tells the contestants as they face eachother at center ring to fight fair and no choke holds.... They touch noses and go to their respective corners.

Rani looks confident she can over take this little schmark of a competitor. Marcie eyes her opponent with a steely (almost demonic glare) and takes a swig of warm milk from her bottle ...... The bell rings.
Round One

Rani and Marcie slowly approach one another. Oh My God! Marcie has just launched herself at Rani without warning........

Rani is stunned. She's down! Rani is down!!! ONE!
TWO!
THREE!
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
It's over! the match is over!

Never underestimate the power of this little mighty-mite!

Baby Marcie is the winner in a stunning 13 seconds of the first round! {{gwi:135071}}
:-)

Whew! All of that action just wore these guys & gals out!

{{gwi:135073}}

Starting at about 10-11 o'clock, the 'Dark Angel' is Shanti, going clockwise is her 'brother' Yogi, and then Puck, the patriarch of the feline family, and of course, the Elder, the 'Mommy Cat' (because she oversees all), the Coho.

Odd how the boys and girls are lined up towards the left, as well as the K9s and felines are lined up top & bottom. Felines are 15, 13, the K9s are 4, 3. These poor cats have already raised 2 other dogs. These 2 dogs love and learned early on not to mess with the cats. The cats knew dogs, the at-the-time puppies were clueless about cats.

Nature vs nurture? you tell me!

Carolyn

Nice match! If I'd have known about it earlier, I'd have put down money on the cat! In most cat/dog matches, the cat is a shoe-in to win! LOL!

Great photos!

Even in the aggressive world of bulldogs, there are exceptions to the rule... many years ago, we sent a pair of brothers to live with a dear friend... the two were inseparable, sharing all aspects of life... the feed dish, the bed, the owner! I don't have pictures... we lost a lot in the fire... but at one time, she sent us several shots of the two curled up together in their crate, eating dinner together from the same dish, playing and wrestling in the back yard.

And then there are those that fare better alone... Bones, an Olde Bulldogge female, cannot be trusted with other pets... she likes to have her kennel to herself, and God help the poor animal that enters her space! She will only put up with company when in season, and even then, there's the initial beat-down of the male to put him in his place! Once he cowers before her, belly up, she will allow him to share her kennel... but only until she is properly bred! She does make excellent babies, though, and is super-sweet with people.

My own two personal dogs, Maia and Huck, share everything except meals... they are constantly supervised, and when I must leave, they are crated. It's not that they can't get along without supervision... it's that I never take a chance... an argument over a toy can quickly escalate when the participants are as powerful as bulldogs, and so, responsibility is always number one.

It's funny how different breeds and different animals care for each other, and it's very interesting to watch the interaction and the hierarchy within a group. I don't know how I'd fare without at least one dog, preferably more!

FYI, 'Blackie" is actually a fairly common sport of the gray squirrel clan.

Chryss

From the link below. Source: Maryland Department of Natural Resources:

"Some gray squirrels are black, a color phase that can be common in some locales."

I have seen some years when the black ones are the predominant color in my neighborhood. Other years, they are scarcely found.

--Stitz--

I've never actually seen a black squirrel up close, but my husband says they're fairly common in some parts of the country, and he saw quite a few when he was younger, right in his own back yard, in northern Illinois.

I do notice, though, that some years we have more reds than grays, and some years it's the other way around...

The black ones almost look like a domestic type... you know, like something created for pet shop purchase. The color is very interesting!

Your bed looks like ours. No room for the humans. And it wouldn't matter if you have a larger bed ... there's still limited people room, isn't there? LOL! :-)

Awwwwww. Puck looks like our ~little~ 22 pound Henry.

We have always been blessed with very gentle animals. (Except for the murdering ways of Daisy with the critters outside.) We had a mouse in the living room a few months ago. Hello? Cats? Why are you not paying attention? We figured out that since we often have an assortment of different animals (baby bunnies, baby moles, birds galore, squirrels ... whatever) the cats and dogs are accustomed to these foriegn species and might see them as another rehab. guest? They *never* bother the creatures brought in for treatment or rehab. other than the initial look and sniff Who are you? LOL!

Abnormally yours,

C3D :-)

We have a queen sized bed... should be left over room and plenty of blankets... "SHOULD" being the key word! It's a constant battle for space and covers! But... I wouldn't have it any other way!