Have a look at the picture. No pots, small pot
and slightly larger pot. It depends entirely on which orchid you are trying to grow.
Most orchids grown by hobbyists have ancestors that grew on trees or rocks with the roots exposed. In many cases we are growing them in pots for convenience only. Though having the plant in a pot reduces the watering frequency. The group of orchids pictured are high light orchids that need a drier period in winter, if they were in large pots with an excessive amount of potting material the roots might rot. This is a wide question beyond my limited typing skills to answer fully.
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As has already been mentioned, it really depends upon the orchid in question. Most orchids, especially phal's and Dendrobiums, do best when they are potted in something where their roots just barely fit. The general rule of thumb is if you can't fit the root ball in the pot, go up only one size.

Larger pots retain more moisture and require less frequent watering unless you live in an extremely dry environment. Smaller pots will need more frequent watering and monitoring.

Generally, we use pots to help increase the humidity around the root zone. Of course, terrestrial orchids are a bit different in that regard.

Are you sure? I have heard from a really reliable source that is not true and it is a myth.

Think about how an orchid in the wild would be attached to a tree branch or the crotch of a branch and truck. If the roots weren't wedged in tightly a long flower spike loaded with flowers would act like a pry bar and pull the plant off the tree in the slightest breeze, killing the plant. Orchids will grow fine in a larger pot as long as the watering is adjusted accordingly but they may not flower until its anchored.

I am only speaking from what I see at my house in the tropics and the ones I have here.

It seems the roots find their way out of crevices and nooks and spread through the air or along tree bark. The bigger the root system, the larger the plant and flowers. They certainly don't have to worry about rot like that.

I have seen some stuck in tiny crevices with NO root room and no way to spread out, and they are not that big and at times unhealthy looking. Maybe a leaf here and there, but it seems the energy of these is expended on flowering to survive, shedding their lower leaves with very wrinkly and yellow looking ones left behind. Beautiful flowers, but horrible looking foliage.
They seem to handle these tight spaces, yeah, but if given the chance to spread out, they thrive and take on a whole new better look.
I do know those roots exposed do well because of high humidity in the surrounding air.

Lumpy has it! I have some growing in bigger pots and very healthy because of the proper medium I use and the frequency on my watering habits. They see to grow fine and in fact like it.

The ones growing in tight pots are breaking out from them and DO NOT like being confined. I suppose I wouldn't like it either if I were confined to a very small space.

I take their whole environment in consideration and the amount of water provided in captivity to which determines whether they will thrive in tight confined spaces or or have limited vitality.

Most things forced by our hands into a confined area may survive, but may not thrive. From humans, to animal, to plants. Captivity is what it is: captivity.

Mike

MG1? Your question has to be better clarified and more specific.

Generalities are usually hard to answer.

Are you asking if it's ok to put a small orchid such as a two inch Cattaleya seedling use to growing in a 2 inch pot into a 12 inch one?
Or is it ok to pot up a couple sizes bigger. Please be more specific so many here can better assist you.

Well said, Arthur, Paul, and Mike!

MG, there you have it. Like I said, that statement you posted was inaccurate because of the
wide range of Orchids. Clearly, not *all* Orchids prefer the same root-congestion, as demonstrated
by my reference to terrestrial Orchids (which Paul also mentions), and the pics posted by Arthur.

When it comes to pot size, the advice to stay small often has more to do with inappropriate potting media
than it does the actual preference of the plant. As long as the mix is durable, well-aerated, and retains
the proper amount of moisture and nutrients, then one can grow quite successfully in large containers.
Of course, I'm simply rehashing what Mike just wrote above.

We should also re-iterate that some plants are genetically predisposed to a small root-system.
Having a small root-system should not be misconstrued as a *preference* for tight growing conditions -
moreover, a single anecdote should not be applied to all plants, Orchids or otherwise.

We should also restate that many times growers will use smaller pots to stress the plant into
the production of blooms - but this also should not be misconstrued as a preference for the plant.
It is stress, and it compromises the vitality of the plant in one way or another.

Josh

If some are native to areas where their roots are restricted, they respond to that in a way?

Would some argue that stressed induce blooms may not hurt the plant and it COULD or COULD NOT be a part of nature. I think stress induced blooming needs to be looked at much different, it is not bad for the plant.

Container growing... actual pot growing, without slits, holes, and/or basket or lath-like openings for roots to find their way through presents a unique difficulty for the plant in question... and once the roots completely fill the space and have nowhere else to go, nature answers chemically by initiating reproduction... usually in the form of flowers that insects will, hopefully, pollinate to create seeds... or by offsets, stolons, and other methods plants have developed over millennium to keep their DNA alive and moving forward through time.

The first rule of growing is that container growing is very different than growing in the ground.

Look it up... but be warned... the internet is not an actual set of Encylopedia Brittanica, and not all it contains will be scientifically vetted.

Proper research should net you the same answers everyone else it trying to give you.

Through the many sources I found they all said that Orchids like tight pots, even with Orchid medium that drains fast, they like the small pots to grow flowers and structure growth. I just want to hear everyones point of view on this and why I am finding so many sources that say Orchids like tight pots even with fast draining Orchid medium.

MG, stress is stress. It is not good for the plant.

When you stress a plant, you are compromising its vitality.
This doesn't necessarily kill the plant, or even disfigure it.
But it does lead to lost growth potential.

Josh

I just want to hear everyones point of view on this and why I am finding so many sources that say Orchids like tight pots even with fast draining Orchid medium.

I am not trying to repeat just am wondering why this is the case?

"From humans, to animal, to plants. Captivity is what it is: captivity. "

"Beautiful flowers, but horrible looking foliage.
They seem to handle these tight spaces, yeah, but if given the chance to spread out, they thrive and take on a whole new better look. "

This really changed my mind about the sources I read online.

Well MG1

You have a choice to make:-)

Either you can listen to the very knowledgable people here at the wonderful forum, look at their plants, listen to their stories, and get the facts straight and go from there. Not a one here who has been growing orchids successfully has given you the answer you would 'like' to hear.

Or

You could continue to listen to the 1000's of different opinions all over the internet and at nursery's and go from there. It's your choice.

When I broke my heel, I got hundreds of different opinions on what to do for it, and how it would turn out, and really, how I would never be the same.
My good confidants and the only Doctor that cared for me are the ones that got me through. I am glad I stayed with one recurring opinion, since I am at peak performance again. I made the right choice.

It just so happens that I have a few good confidants here, and a plant 'whisperer' that you seem to but heads with, that has made a world of difference for my plants to remain at their peak performance. It is my choice to stick with him and the wonderful people here on the same page.

If you really want to know which is better? Take two plants of the very same kind, and see how it turns out. That might be best for you.

You won't get opposite opinions here and in fact, you will see a unity among these wonderful people who are usually on the same page.
If your intent is to disrupt or stir the pot for excitement by pitting one against another, or to stir up emotions in a guise of pretending to want help, it won't work:0) in fact you will get found out. It seems you only pay attention to what you want and re-quote what others say for your benefit, or what I do not know, and overlook what is expected of you?

If your intent is to learn and do what's best for your plants, then take the time to listen to the experts here, and you know, try thanking the ones that come to your aid or that take the time to help you for a change.
I think you are too busy doing something else instead of appreciating the good advice being given to you.

I hope you're only playing dumb:-)

Peace

Mike

Howdy All,

I didn't know you guys came to the Orchid Forum...

TMG..when you say large pot, what size do you mean? Anyone?

My Orchid pots range from 2-4". Many roots are very tight-fitting.
One Orchid was purchased at Home Depot in the mid-90's for 1.00. Think it's Dendrobium. The container is a wooden basket w/metal hanger.
This poor Orchid is so rootbound think the basket will need breaking in order to remove, but it flowers from late spring until early autumn, so I fear disturbing its roots.

I've been looking for 5" Orchid baskets, but can only find even numbered pots...2, 4, 6", etc.

Your question was do Orchids need small pots?

Yes and no. It depends on type and root size.

Most ORchids, including Vanillas, are potted in bark. At the minimum, they're top-dressed with more bark.

Or, when bark looks old, I remove to check roots.

However, I believe cozy-roots promote flowering, as most other flowering plants. Toni

Mike I really meant that I found what you said interesting. I am doing this for inforamtional reasons to bring up a topic.

"However, I believe cozy-roots promote flowering, as most other flowering plants. Toni"

This could be stress induce blooming?

My experience is with phalaenopsis, which are monopodial, unlike most other orchids. It seems to me that most of the root growth occurs with aerial roots outside the container. Phalaenopsis roots actually conduct photosynthesis if exposed to light, which produces extra food (energy) for the plant. Horticulturalists at Michigan State University are growing them in see through containers for this reason. They grow in a mix of long fiber sphagnum moss and styrofoam peanuts, and note that the purpose of the mix in the pot is primarily to provide humidity around the plant, not to contain the roots. And the mix provides for some air circulation around the roots, which they require.

Its an interesting discussion with lots of valid points but ,as with most things about orchids, there is no one right answer. A Vanda in a basket will send roots outward into the air dangling feet below the plant, a Cattleya in a basket will cling to the basket. I've never known a plant to let itself get trapped in a pot. They will send roots up in the air or over the side of the pot if they need more space so I don't think confined roots stress the plant. On the other hand plenty of people swear by mounting plants and there's no way for a mounted plant to be pot bound and yet the flower just fine. My feeling is that it's more about the plant anchoring its self to something before it flowers so it doesn't fall over.

I totally agree with the last post. Basically all orchids are epihytes (terrestrials are not part of this discussion and lithophytes can be treated as epiphytes). All orchids are therefore mounted, some inside a pot. When outside a pot the roots find their own place, when confined to a pot they have little choice until they finally escape the pot and send roots over the edge. As long as they are inside the pot the roots still cling to something and need air exposure otherwise they go downhill. The size of the pot then is more related to the media you use than the needs of the plant.

I shamelessly over pot if the starting point is a large plant. My preferred media is rock and for large rooted plants I use 1 1/2" lightweight gravel. There is so much airspace between the rocks that the plant is essentially mounted and the size of the pot is not important. It will ramble and fill the available space. I have some Australian Dendrobiums that were put in a 12" diameter pots 10 years ago and are just now approaching the edge of the pot. They are in rock so deterioration of the media is no concern.

On the other hand I have seen an Oncidium grown by SBOE which is in a hanging 4" pot. The plant is gigantic, about 2' plus in diameter with probably 100 pbulbs. Most of the roots are outside the pot. SBOE grows it to demonstrate that it's not the size of the pot that matters but taking care of the needs of the plant.

When my starting point is a small plant, I leave it in it's small container, 2 1/2" pot for example, forever and never will remove it. When it gets big enough I drop it the whole thing into a 4" pot and let it ramble around until it fills that. Then it may or may not get a bigger pot. One of my largest Cattleyas is in a 2 1/2" - 4" -5" - 6" hanging pot and again most the roots are now outside, the growths are all over the place so that the 6" pot is barely visible.

The correct answer to all of this is that our orchids don't want to grow in something, they want to grow on something. The key word is 'ON'. Any way you can satisfy their need for this will work. As long as their roots get air, they will find a way to grow. The size of the pot is immaterial since they don't want to be in a pot in the first place. Anything that works 'FOR YOU' is fine, the plants adapt.

If you fill a 6" pot with seedling bark and put a small plant in it, the thing will surely die. If the pieces of bark are large enough so that the roots are bathed in air and also are allowed to dry between watering, you can put it in a 12" pot and it will only use the space it needs, same as in nature.

Much of the discussion relates to 4 to 5 year old plants that need to go to market and be sold for a profit, certain pot sizes will do best for different situations. Once the plant is established in your growing area and has been there for a significant number of years, totally different parameters apply. I have some plants that probably have been on their mounts 15 plus years. The 'mount' can be an empty pot, all these plants want is to be left alone to do their thing. This does not just apply to Catts, I also have a Phaelanopsis equestris, a Dend speciosum and an Oncidium sphacelatum which have been growing undisturbed since the mid 90s. For plants like that pot size is a moot point.

Nick

So I think it fairly safe to say, for the purposes of this discussion, that Orchids neither prefer
small pots....nor can they be constrained to small pots, by which I mean they arrange
their own escape. If Orchids liked small pots, they would stay there.

Well said, Nick.

Josh

So the biggest reason to use a small pot is lack of good medium.

Some orchids like to be rootbound according to most experts. In nature they are not rootbound, how does that correlate then? The medium is the key. It is not 'good' or 'bad' medium, it has to blend with your watering technique. Any medium which has deteriorated is no good, we are talking about fresh bark, coconut, moss or rock. The size of the particles, the frequency of watering and the size of the pot all have to mesh and are interrelated. As long as the roots remain exposed to air and are allowed to dry out to a degree, it all will work.

Then you have very specific situations. I grow a number of Dracula which in nature get rained on every day. They like to be soaking wet. I grow them in Sphagnum moss and water them every 2 days. They are always wet. There the size of the pot becomes a curious situation as these plants don't bother to make much of a rootball. Getting dinner served up continuously makes it unnecessary for them to grow many roots. I have them in shallow baskets, the size of the leaf ball determines the size of the basket. Since they have the habit of sending flowers out the bottom and sides of their containers, it sometimes is difficult to uppot them without sacrificing flower stalks out of which they bloom again and again. If a plant is growing vigorously, I will put it in a fairly large basket however not beyond what it can grow in a year as the moss should be replace every year. Gets expensive if the plant only uses half the space alloted to it as all of the moss deteriorates, with or without roots.

This is a very specific situation illustrating that no one rule applies to all.

Nick.

Thanks Nick.

I know what you are saying here:

"If you fill a 6" pot with seedling bark and put a small plant in it, the thing will surely die. If the pieces of bark are large enough so that the roots are bathed in air and also are allowed to dry between watering, you can put it in a 12" pot and it will only use the space it needs, same as in nature. "

Thats what I meant about the bad medium. If I use something more course the size pot really does not matter as you stated.

That's more like it MG1!

You'll find yourself thanking a whole lot of people once you see how good their trusted advice works.

Nick, Josh, Ohio, Lumpy, Jodi, Toni, Paul, and Authur have been the best anywhere I have known.

I am glad you were able to understand, and I hope you continue to enjoy these forums like I have.

Mike

Ohiofem...thanks for the info about Phalaenopsis.

Most of my Orchids are Phals. A few are potted in clear pots, but choosing containers were not for the reason you stated.
Since my Orchids are in bark, clear pots help determine if bark needs water.

Now that you mentioned Phal roots conduct photosynthesis if exposed to light..
What about other Orchids?

MasterGardener..But why place a young, baby ORchid in a 12" pot, when let's say a 6" pot would be more appropriate?
In other words, what good would the excess space do? Toni

Neither a 6" nor a 12" pot would be appropriate, the point was something else.

Nick

If I use something more course the size pot really does not matter as you stated.

This is the conclusion. Is that not the point?

I could be wrong, but I believe Nick was responding to Toni (Hopeful Author) immediately above.

MG, if you use an ingredient that is coarse and durable, then you can pot however you like.
One of Nick's points, however, was to take into consideration how much growth a plant is likely
to produce between re-potting intervals. If a plant can't fill a container in the time between re-potting,
then why not reduce the container size and save room.

Again, a lot of this information is species specific, which is why I was so emphatic
in the other Thread that one-size information does not apply to *all* Orchids.

Josh

"Again, a lot of this information is species specific, which is why I was so emphatic
in the other Thread that one-size information does not apply to *all* Orchids."

So I think some like small pot, so to speak".

And some like the free room in the pot.

And beside this I am considering this stress bloom not good, always thought it was a "pro" way to grow.

MG1

I suppose you could even use a 5 foot wide 5 inche deep planter box filled with huge bark pieces, or even stone that allows for great airation and free room for roots to roam, but is it practical in your home setting or environment?

For me the size of the pot in relation to the size of each plant allows me to sqeeze a lot more orchids in what limited space I do have in my growing areas. It all comes down to common sense and what is practical.

Josh summed it up well! Please re-read what he said. He got the point and made it clear.

Toni is trying to be practical here and teach common sense which I appreciate.

If you put everyones suggestions to use and really try to see what ponts are being made here, you'll find that using anything but a pot that squeezes your roots to death and causes undue stress is suitable for what best matches your watering habits, type of roots, and size media.

Listening to what is said here will allow your plants to grow to their full potential within the 'reasonable', common sense boundries of sqeezing your plants roots into very tight spaces, verses giving thew room to breath and gorw to what is best for them.

Mike

Sorry....I should of said....

"of squeezing your plants roots into very tight pots that traps them, and does not allow them to spread beyond that confined space".

Thanks, I enjoy these talks, to most people these long talks about container size might seem, well, strange :)

But to me I learned a good deal, and in this I am sure many other readers may have as well.

Hey I'm a Master Gardener too, Yeah!!

Ok My two cents. First I agree with Nick's examples. This is what I have learned from growing orchids for the last 11-12 years= A smaller pot is not a stress for an orchid, it is security. The sooner that their roots have sometime to hold onto and not wiggle around in a pot, the happier your orchid will be. If you are using a coarse mix for a small plant in a large pot;the plant has the chance of moving anytime you touch it,thus breaking off VERY tender root tips. The act of Not being secure to something and BREAKING those root tips IS stressful.MG1 orchid roots are just very different than "dirt plant" roots and they don't always regenerate the same. Lots of times these roots are damaged and then just die, and rot. Orchids don't grow quickly but they will rot quickly, sometimes before you know it has even happened.Ginnibug

Hey, I am really not a Master Gardener :(

But I am now just from listening to all this great information!!!!!!!!! :)

I really hope to be a Master gardener some day. I do donate time in setting up as many gardens I can for freinds. Of course they donate me fresh produce in return!!!

"If you are using a coarse mix for a small plant in a large pot;the plant has the chance of moving anytime you touch it,thus breaking off VERY tender root tips"

Thats good information, thanks.

Now, I have a couple of questions I meant to ask at another time, but I think it relates here.

What about those clips they use to secure an orchid to a pot so it is stable and stays that way?

If ones uses these tools to keep an orchid secure, then must an orchid feel secure in a small pot if it is secured by some device in a larger one, the way they are on mounts?

Also, if an orchid has filled a pot completely to the point it wants to start pushing roots outside of the pot and through the bottom, then how do the center roots, the ones squeezed into the center with no room for air or time to dry out avoid rot if the pot is so conjested?

The roots are suffocating each other for air and a drink or take much longer to dry out in the center, no?

I just pulled an orchid out of a pot that was completly filled and the center roots were rotted, while the ones closest to the edge of the container, holes, styrofoam peanuts, and bottom were healthy. The ones squeezed out by the ones getting air and room to grow were dead.

Thanks

Yea I think if you let it get too root bound that cant be good. I agree as grower we should be able to choose what our plants do. Why you ask? Well, we fertilize them, so, it is up to us 100% if they eat or not. So as a grower we can utilize stress induced blooming using a tight pot when we want a lot of blooms in a SMALL area of garden space. But that is just a side note.

I agree with Mike if you were to clip them in from moving that would take care of that. But I think we like to get away with th smallest pot as we can.

I think there is a handfull of economists that would agree.

Now, I have a couple of questions I meant to ask at another time, but I think it relates here.

What about those clips they use to secure an orchid to a pot so it is stable and stays that way?

If ones uses these tools to keep an orchid secure, then must an orchid feel secure in a small pot if it is secured by some device in a larger one, the way they are on mounts?

Also, if an orchid has filled a pot completely to the point it wants to start pushing roots outside of the pot and through the bottom, then how do the center roots, the ones squeezed into the center with no room for air or time to dry out avoid rot if the pot is so conjested?

The roots are suffocating each other for air and a drink or take much longer to dry out in the center, no?

I just pulled an orchid out of a pot that was completly filled and the center roots were rotted, while the ones closest to the edge of the container, holes, styrofoam peanuts, and bottom were healthy. The ones squeezed out by the ones getting air and room to grow were dead.

Thanks

I think you rarely ever have "stress induced blooming" from an orchid. It's not like a flowering or fruiting tree that you can coax into blooming by "injuring" the trunk. :) All the ones I stressed and killed didn't flower before they bought the farm, and they were pretty stressed!:) And as for it being up to us 100% whether or not they eat because of fertilizer; nope, can't say that's the way it works either. If orchids are outside? They are being fed by their surroundings, like my Neostylis Blaupunkt...you know who feeds it during the summer... the birds do, when they drop bird poo into the pot. Or orchids will draw nutrients from whatever media they are potted.

Mike at some point every plant is going to start dying off in the center. Those peanuts strategically placed can help slow that down,but it still is going to happen. But nature finds away. If you have ever had an old Cymbidium that been in the same pot for eons the bulbs will just start growing one on top of the other, thus replacing the older, dead backbulbs.gb

"Or orchids will draw nutrients from whatever media they are potted. "

I am just not sure how much nutrients are in Bark?

Zero, the bark is just something to hold on to. If your backyard locks like a set in 'Sanford and Son', mount the plant on an old fridge, it will get as much nutrient.

Nick

As I said before I feel that there is a cause effect relationship with the roots and being attached to something and flowering, similar to the way some need a temp change or p bulb count to flower. A pot clip would hold the plant in the pot but wouldn't trigger the reaction. I read on here a long time ago a post from someone studying orchid roots saying that when a root touches something suitable to grow on it changes on a cellular level. They flatten out and produce what ever it is that makes them stick to just about anything they also absorb more water than a root not attached to anything. It would'nt make sense that a plant would produce a long spike if it couldn't support the weight of it, evolution would insure plants that did would fall to the forest floor and die. You will have a some root die off no matter what you do as the plant matures the roots on old growth die the the leaf them the p bulb. Also you cant just increase the size of the media with the pot, you have to consider root size as well. Finer roots will want finer mix, I also feel finer roots will want to be more compact than chunky root but that just one opinion

Thanks I have learned quite a bit from everyone.

On another note: I know fertilizing Orchids is only good to do when they are growing fast and in good climate/weather. With that said, I hear it is good to cut the strength of fertilizer by a lot for Orchids, or Cacti for that matter. I use a good hydroponic fertilizer, cut it 1/8 strength? No fertilizer or very little during off months?

Thanks.

Another great thread for someone trying to figure out how to mount/pot/plant (successively worse terms) an orchid!

Carol