They like it bright but no direct sun....If a spike appears, the best bet is to cut the spike off. It appears to be weakened, if so a spike could kill it. It it has already flowered, some phals blooms will last so long that it harms or kills the plant.

This post was edited by shavedmonkey on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 17:15

Direct sun isn't a bad thing at all, many of us grow them getting some morning and/or evening sun. Mine get direct sun in the summer until noon, for example.

And respectfully, the blooming themselves to death is a myth. Scientifically speaking its a backward and illogical belief; makes one wonder how such an absurdity continues in perpetuity.

In explaining a flowering plant death, a sick plant forcing a flower is more logical than a healthy plant that makes itself sick through flowering. Women who find themselves frequently pregnant (see: Duggars) don't wither and die. The plant was likely sick to begin with.

Renee, where do you live? You left this crucial point out.

Watering once a week with both evening and morning sun does not sound like enough watering to me, even during the winter. Thats what this problem looks like to me; excessive wilting frequently lends to yellowing of the leaves.

Assuming you're watering correctly, slightly too much light can make the leaves yellow, but it wouldn't wilt the plant. Treating with epsom salts can cure that.

I live in Southeast Texas.It had already bloomed in January 2013 and hadn't bloomed afterwards. The stems became yellow after a while so I trimmed the stems off with the help with several orchid care videos. Around December 2013 is when it started wilting and I have been trying to figure out what exactly has been wrong with it. I changed it out of it's old medium about two months ago and hoped that this would fix it, but it still has wilted leaves.
The roots were in good condition, with the exception of some being brown, but I cut those off. Can leaves stay wilted, even after the problem has been fixed? Or is there multi different problems occurring?

In truth I'm suspicious of those roots. Brown roots can mean they just naturally died or it could mean you over watered. Without seeing your roots it's hard to tell.

Tell me, how was the summer? Now that you mention southern TX, heat damage comes to mind; it does look similar to this. But it started in Dec so that's not adding up. You plant was doing well all through the summer? How often were you watering?

How many hours total would you say the plant gets of sunlight each day? And what direction does the windows face

I've seen that problem before. When my orchids did that it was due to not enough humidity. I haven't had hat problem in years since I mist them once a day every morning. Also I had to repot it as well and I trimmed off any dead roots. They bounced right back and rewarded me with flowers. I also fertilize them with miracle grow for orchids, but you can use a brand other than that.

Hello Tamela,

Phals aren't very sensitive to humidity issues, and certainly wouldn't react this badly. Misting once a day will definitely has zero effect on ambient humidity: that quarter teaspoon of water you spray on your plants evaporates and diffuses throughout the house.

I promise you there was something else wrong with your plant that you ultimately resolved. And kudos for your turnaround! but it wasn't humidity.

My guess - roots. If the plant lost enough roots, the leaves will wilt and will not pop back. Your goal at this point is to give it good care and let the plant make new roots. It is Springtime, plants are starting their growth and hopefully you will get new roots.

Jane

"It is in a bark medium that it was just planted into, but had the wilted leaves before."

The moisture holding capacity of bark changes with age. Older, much decomposed bark can stay pretty soggy between waterings. Fresh bark sheds water and needs more frequent watering. The plant might have been overwatered prior to repotting, then underwatered after repotting. Either condition can stress the plant.

BTW, phalaenopsis like frequent repotting.

Jim

Thanks to all of the responses!

The Orchid is inside and is at a South facing window. The window is very close to the neighbor's house and the sunlight is blocked after about 10:00 am and has indirect light until the sun starts to set, then get full sun 'till it's dark. I would say about six hours of sunlight. The orchid was in the same spot since I have had it and has always done well in this spot. I have always watered it once a week. The only thing that I think could of been the culprit during the winter, is that the orchid did not need as much water and was over watered. The house stays normally around 75 F all year round.

If humidity is the problem, I don't know for sure how to change it to getting more humidity. It already has a tray with rocks underneath it that allows for humidity. The pot is never covered in the water and only stays over it with the rocks. I do have a spray bottle to mist the orchid, but do not use it to the point to where that would become a problem of over watering.

From what everyone has been suggesting the roots may be the culprit. There were many green, plump roots when it was re-potted and had several dead ones also. While looking at the visible roots, it is apparent that they are growing and have even secured themselves to the medium. Do you think that changing the medium to the new one may have fixed the problem and I haven't waited long enough to see results? If the medium fixed the problem, will the leaves go back to normal?

Humidity is not the problem, don't worry about it.

One thing will answer this quickly, and given that you will have to change to a smaller pot anyways because that pot is way to big, it's perfect timing:

Unpot the plant and have a look at the current state of the roots. Post a picture for us and we can advise.

I'm strongly torn between under watering (6 hours of sunlight is a lot for a phal, so it could be drying out quickly, meaning water more than once a week which is usually a death sentence type recommendation) and overwatering (brown roots, large pot, timing of decline).

TerpGuy,
Thank you for your feeble attempt to figure this out. You continue to amaze me with your lack of knowledge and experience. In time you will get it. Keep trying.

Phals are the most hybridized of all orchids. When plants are crossed with talent they breed in the desired attributes. Life of bloom is one of those attributes. It is from time to time overdone.

Those of us with the ability to grow a robust phal have the ability with the right cross (actually bad cross) to bloom themselves to death. But if you grow them like terpguy apparently they never will kill themselves.

Also, terpguy is at a much higher latitude than you are and that makes a big difference. Sun is more damaging to phals in south Texas than zone 7.

Then terpguy trys a bailout flipflop and calls it heat damage. And starts asking about the sun?

But no disrespect...Below is the light recommendations from the American Orchid Society

Phalaenopsis are ‘low’ light orchids. They grow beautifully in an east window and can be grown in a south or west window if protected by a sheer curtain. A phal’s leaves should be olive green. If they are darker it means the plant is not getting enough light; red tinged leaves mean the plant is getting too much light. Once the plant is in bloom you can place it anywhere in your home out of direct sunlight. If your plant does not re-bloom, increase the amount of light that it receives.

This post was edited by shavedmonkey on Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 7:41

First the myth of the color of a Phals leaves is bogus and it doesn't mean squat even coming from AOS. A Phal violacea or bellina should never have leaves dark green, they should be apple green. A Phal gigantea will have medium green leaves and a pulcherrima will have dark leaves. It is the genetics in a Phal that determines the leaf color.

There are also Phals that automatically have purple coloration on them even when grown in 800 fc. Usually the purple coloration comes from having pink/purple Phals in the background.

Before shavedmonkey insults me too, I have over 300 Phals including many species and hybrids. I have grown Phals from flask from crosses I created and have won several AOS awards with my plants. BTW there is a difference between heat and the sun.

Ladyrenee30 you have to have a root issue. If the roots are good and viable then the roots are not getting enough moisture to the leaves. If you have good roots then soak the entire plant in water for an hour or longer to see if the limpness disappears. Most times new bark actually repels water and you have to water more often. Judge the size of the pot by the root mass not the size of the leaves.

Brooke

The following passage is from a book written by orchid collector Frederick Boyle in 1893. For over a 100 years we have been asking the same questions. The answers are all correct and at the same time all incorrect. What works changes plant to plant and house to house. Trial and error is the only way to know what will work for anyone.

Phaloenopsis, of course, are hot. This is one of our oldest genera which still rank in the first class. It was drawn and described so early as
1750, and a plant reached Messrs. Rollisson in 1838; they sold it to the Duke of Devonshire for a hundred guineas. Many persons regard
Phaloenopsis as the loveliest of all, and there is no question of their supreme beauty, though not everyone may rank them first. They come
mostly from the Philippines, but Java, Borneo, Cochin China, Burmah, even Assam contribute some species. Colonel Berkeley found Ph.
tetraspis, snow-white, and Ph. speciosa, purple, in the Andamans, when he was Governor of that settlement, clinging to low bushes along
the mangrove creeks. So far as I know, all the species dwell within breath of the sea, as it may be put, where the atmosphere is laden with
salt; this gives a hint to the thoughtful. Mr. Partington, of Cheshunt, who was the most renowned cultivator of the genus in his time, used to
lay down salt upon the paths and beneath the stages of his Phaloenopsis house. Lady Howard de Walden stands first, perhaps, at the present
day, and her gardener follows the same system. These plants, indeed, are affected, for good or ill, by influences too subtle for our
perception as yet. Experiment alone will decide whether a certain house, or a certain neighbourhood even, is agreeable to their taste. It is a
waste of money in general to make alterations; if they do not like the place they won't live there, and that's flat! It is probable that
Maidstone, where Lady Howard de Walden resides, may be specially suited to their needs, but her ladyship's gardener knows how to turn a
lucky chance to the best account. Some of his plants have ten leaves! "the uninitiated may think that fact grotesquely undeserving of a note
of exclamation, but to explain would be too technical. It may be observed that the famous Swan orchid, Cycnoches chlorochilon, flourishes
at Maidstone as nowhere else perhaps in England.
Phaloenopsis were first introduced by Messrs. Rollisson, of Tooting, a firm that vanished years ago, but will live in the annals of
horticulture as the earliest of the great importers. In 1836 they got home a living specimen of Ph. amabilis, which had been described, and
even figured, eighty years before. A few months later the Duke of Devonshire secured Ph. Schilleriana. The late Mr. B.S. Williams told me
a very curious incident relating to this species. It comes from the Philippines, and exacts a very hot, close atmosphere of course. Once upon
a time, however, a little piece was left in the cool house at Holloway, and remained there some months unnoticed by the authorities. When
at length the oversight was remarked, to their amaze this stranger from the tropics, abandoned in the temperate zone, proved to be thriving
more vigorously than any of his fellows who enjoyed their proper climate! "so he was left in peace and cherished as a "phenomenon."
Four seasons had passed when I beheld the marvel, and it was a picture of health and strength, flowering freely; but the reader is not
advised to introduce a few Phaloenopsis to his Odontoglossums "not by any means. Mr. Williams himself never repeated the experiment. It
was one of those delightfully perplexing vagaries which the orchid-grower notes from time to time.

SM, ouch, You hurt me right in your myth parroting ignorance. Maybe you should settle down and learn a thing or two from the people on this forum who might have some authority on the subject matter at hand.

Like how phals can grow in some direct sun, or how dark leaves don't always mean lack of sun, or how pests don't actually crap out sooty mold.

This post was edited by terpguy on Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 12:47

Ok, I don't think that people should say if they are better than one another. I honestly think that everyone on this forum who has had success with orchids deserves to voice their opinion on what they think might be wrong.

I am not an expert on orchids and that is for sure. This is my first orchid and this is the first problem I have had with it. My ultimate question now is if the color is suppose to be olive or a lime green color and how to choose the size of a pot. Why should you not put an orchid in a larger pot for it to grow in? I think everyone is right about it being the roots. I am going to try and un-pot it into a smaller pot soon. I will post a picture when I do. Thank you for all the responses from everyone. I appreciate the help with trying to figure out the problem with my orchid.

You are trying to provide the growing conditions where the ancestors of your Phalaenopsis grew/grow in nature, that is on a tree or on a rock where the roots would be partly exposed to the air. So if the roots get wet from dew or rain they quickly dry a bit in daytime or between showers. Contrast this with conditions for the roots in a pot that is too big for the plant where the roots are continually wet.

Thanks Lumpy for the article.

Thanks for the pot info. I have some pictures of the roots and it seems that they have some more dead roots on it, which looks like the problem. When I first re-planted it, I removed all of the other dead roots, so this is new. I looked at the mulch I just replaced the orchid into and it is dry after I watered it yesterday! I think I may have had decomposed mulch before that was rotting the roots and when I changed the mulch, it was drying up so much that it isn't getting enough water.
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Also, is this a good mulch to use? This is the only kind of mulch I have been able to find for them here where I live. How do I get it to retain water?
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Also, I am transferring it into a smaller pot , but am soaking it in water since it was dry. Is this pot ok?

Sorry you're having to see this Irene. This isn't the norm and I hope it doesn't scare you away. There's sometimes strong disagreements here, which isn't a bad thing; People only ever benefit from strong, intellectual, fact based disagreements.

This is a slightly different situation that derives from above. This forum for a very long time has had the reputation of newbies leading newbies (blind leading the blind): poor quality of advice by virtue of spreading long-held beliefs like "water once a week" or "never let sunlight touch your plants", among a ton of others, all of which are summarily rejected by those with decent experience and good educational background. Quality advice does not make broad statements like this

What happened here is some push back on those unfortunate -ism's.

To your plant:
That's your problem. You had root rot, which by virtue of the lack of roots mimics underwatering. That root system is tiny.

Good news is that the root system is starting to recover! The smaller pot should work great and I have no qualms with the medium you are using though I'm hoping someone from southern Texas or similar climate will verify.

Looking forward what will happen is that new leaves will grow that are smaller tha what you have now. The current leaves will eventually die. As new leaves start growing, each subsequent leaf will get bigger and bigger. If you have a flower spike growing right now, cut it off. Given good care you could probably expect to see flowers in 2-3 years.

Keep it up! the steps you took contributed to the recovery, very well done!

This post was edited by terpguy on Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 20:06

Thank you so much for all of your input and I hope it will recover in the small pot. Everyone's advise has been great and I think I can help pin point some problems in the future! Thanks terpguy for all of your advise through these couple of days:)

Ladyrenee do you let the bark soak for a few hours or more before you repot your orchid?
From what I have read you are supposed to soak the bark, if you are repotting into bark right out of the package, that could be why your orchid dries out so quickly.

I think that could of also of been one of the problems. I did soak the potted orchid in the new bark for a few hours right after I did it though.

Are you supposed to keep Fertilizing Orchids when they are in bloom? I grow Phaleanopsis and I heard somewhere that you should stop fertilizing when the plants are blooming.

Anne, the consensus is that it doesn't matter. Technically you shouldn't because the influx of nitrogen can act as an anti blooming hormone. However in orchids that's not really a big deal. I fertilize all my orchids at the same time regardless of if they are in bloom or not. Many others here profess the same.

This is an interesting discussion and I am also learning a lot...thanks folks... I am fairly new to orchids, and have a hard time keeping the phals alive, but no problem w/dens or cats or oncidium, several growers tell me that is common that the learning-curve for phals is harder..I have lost most of mine and just recently they are starting to survive, I find that when I repot to mix some spag. moss in the bark and soak it several hours, then pot the orchid and let it dry out before watering again... apparently I was killing them w/kindness (too much water). I read all the letters you folks post and each is a learning experience..thanks, sally

Light for Phalaenopsis Orchids
Light

Phalaenopsis are somewhat low light orchids, they will grow and flower reliably in natural or artificial light. An east window (south or west if shaded or through sheers) should be just about right. Phals can be happy inside year round; they may be put outside in very shaded area, or even a Florida room or lanai, provided they do not get wind-whipped or too cold. A good tip: The new leaf growth should be equal to, or larger than older growth.

To test for the correct light level, place your hand between the source and the phal. If the shadow of your hand is fuzzy or indistinct, then the light is sufficient. If the outline of the shadow is sharp, then the light is too bright. If introduced to the brighter conditions gradually, Phalaenopsis can be grown in higher Cattleya light but not for long periods of time.

For phalaenopsis, only some very filtered morning sun until 10 am may be tolerated, but protection from the sun after that time is necessary. Unless protected, during the hottest part of the day, the flattened leaves will easily burn. Lime green colored foliage is an indication of too high light. In phalaenopsis, medium to solid green foliage is indicative of the perfect light. Yellow colored foliage indicates too much light or too much water.

Temperature

The ideal annual temperature range is 60F at night to 85F during the daytime. No harm will come from brief periods of temperatures several degrees above and below these guideline temperatures. They tolerate higher temperatures better, than lower temperatures. In the late fall, a short duration of temperatures below the low average are necessary to initiate flower spiking. About three weeks of night temperatures in the 52 to 54F range will insure good bud initiation. After this brief period of cooling, the phals should be maintained in the normal range. When in flower phals should be kept above 60F.

Above is a copy and paste from Sun Coast Orchids in Florida. This is 180 degrees from some advice on this thread. Also there has been pontifications on growing phals in near freezing weather in winter and full sun in summer. I think that would be a good trick. Avoid soapbox ignorance. Don't ask me. Above is overwhelmingly redundant advice found on the internet.

There are some cousins of phals that are contrary to the above advice. But for the common phal consider the predominant recommendations.

Decent generalizations, but not accurate for all phals.

I don't grow as many phals or as well as Brooke, but I do grow quite a few phals... as Brooke said, violacea and a lot of it 's hybrids have a green apple color to their leaves when things are going good. Also, there are the spotted/marbled leafed phals that aren't even really green.

Also, a lot of my species phals bloom in the summer months, so the advice about the fall temp drop is usually meant for hybrid phals.

I grow indoors in late fall/winter/most of spring, but when outside mine get partially sheltered (trees) east light until 11-12, at that point they get the shade from the over-hanging eaves and the house for the rest of the day. When inside, I can't seem to give them too much artificial light with my set-up. Phals 4-6" away from the 4/T12 bulbs, catts 2" or so, but they may sit on the same shelves. @ 4x more distance for both if they are under my high-end LEDs.

IMO a phal can take direct sunlight, just not when it's directly overhead and blazing, tough from let's say from 11-5'ish here in the middle of the country.

Good discussion as long as we stay civil...

Bob

Once again SM is relying on culture notes intentionally written conservatively rather than actual experience.

This post was edited by terpguy on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 18:20

I live in the Northeast. My phals happily take afternoon sunlight, although due to sunlight and the climate in the office, I must pay close attention to watering, and keep the plants in plastic containers only vented at the bottom. I'd love a more open or even mounted container for my orchids, but they simply would not survive that way. It took a lot of trial and error, and what I've learned is: you have to figure out what's best for your plants where YOU are raising them. If you don't live in Florida, the advice I saw cut and pasted above will most likely be of little help to you.

Short answer: there is no one right answer. Where do you live? What's the humidity like? How often can you water? What light can you provide? What temperature swings can you provide? All of this will help the experts here guide you on the pot, the media, how close to a window you should keep them, and how to help them bloom.

And while it may be a good general rule, even leaf color is a fairly arbitrary indicator of health. The two orchids below are raised in nearly identical conditions, with one exception: the purple one gets NO direct sunlight, while the green one gets about two hours a day. Both are thriving and healthy and currently in spike. Different orchids have different color leaves. I say again, and most knowledgeable people will agree: there is no one right answer.

Hello Danielle,

You are absolutely right! Except you somewhat missed the point of this discussion. There's "find what works for you", and there commonly held beliefs that get thrown around like dime-store psychology that long ago have been debunked.

Therein lies the "there absolutely IS right and wrong".

You can't make sweeping generalizations like "Phals don't can't grow in direct sunlight", even after a bunch of people affirm that they actually DO grow them that way.

That IS wrong.

And thats just one of these commonly held beliefs that gets thrown around. There are many more that are just as false and just as unworthy of the "find what works for you" label.

Like "Water once a week".

This post was edited by terpguy on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 19:46

My point was mainly to counter people who cut and paste chunks of information that, though it may come from very reliable and reputable sources, and may work for many, shouldn't be taken as gospel. Many can, and do, raise strong, healthy plants doing just the opposite of what has been suggested as proper orchid culture.

Ah I see. I misconstrued your wording for something else. I see what you are speaking about now.

The AOS needs to know that twerpguy is the leading source of information. And anything they say must be approved by twerpguy. What do they know?

The higher the latitude the more consideration for some direct light...

The yellow phal has been living happily in the bright shade at a low winter temp of 50f. It must be a very odd phal???

There's no such thing as an "odd phal," and there's no one rule that works for every person or every plant. Which is pretty much what everyone else has been saying, respectfully, all along.

Your aggressive and nasty tone, name-calling, and disrespect has become pretty tiresome. Thanks for ruining a pleasant thread of information exchange with your poor attitude and obvious dislike for your fellow members (which could be sent privately to spare the rest of us your spiteful namecalling). Way to keep it polite and civil ... oh, wait: that's not you. I've made a mental note to skip over anything you have to say. I have no patience for bullies, whether they have something important or useful to say or not. Take your negativity and dump it all over someone in your real life, and spare us poor GW members from having to read this drivel.

Danielle, I just push back. I did not initiate this.

I believe that there are many paths to success growing orchids. But 30 something-f temps and full bright direct sun must be an exception not the rule for phals. I'm concerned about harming good orchids with bad info...

You done making stuff up?

No one said anything about full sun.

And as a matter of course I never recommend to people take their plants as far down in temps as I do.

Note that all experienced growers here are refuting what you are saying, not just me. They don't need me to convince them, they already knew this stuff. And are telling you you're wrong.

And with this I'm happily done taking your bait in this thread.

You might get twice as many flowers on that yellow phal if it was given the right light. We didn't say they wouldn't bloom, we said they will bloom better with more light.

You seem to have already made your mind up on this discussion, maybe you need to be more open about others ideas/experiences?

Bob

It might be half as much also if it had more light!

Our climates are significantly different. the same time exposed in zone 6 could fry a plant in zone 10. Do you think? Maybe?

I've been trying to stay out of this, but it seems everyone is right and continue to argue.

Shavedmonkey is correct that Texas light is not the same as zone 6-7. I know, I moved to Florida from NY. Trust me, you would fry the buds if a Phal got direct sunlight. You'd lose the buds closest to the light. Happened to me, didn't happen in NY.

The bottom line, people need to learn to grow any plant in the environment they live. For some, some direct sunlight is good. For others it is destructive. None of this has anything to do with how experienced you are or how much of an expert.

I grow my phals under shade cloth. Trying to grow them without shade cloth burned the leaves big time. Forget the buds.

I am assuming Texas is similar to my growing situation. It certainly is not the same as growing my phals in NY. I could grow them in a SW window, third row back. My Catts and Dends got the closest position to the window. Phals were in 3rd row and got some direct sun but it was much weaker. When they started to spike and bud, they got moved back further. The spike follows the light and if the buds get strong, direct sunlight they will blast.

The OP had a root problem. She bloomed this Phal in the past. Her light sounds good. Her watering and media need to be worked on. That's it! She has figured out how to bloom her plant and that is the reason we all grow these plants.

Terp is right, West is right, Shavedmonkey is right. Everone is right.

Just drop this ridiculous argument. Its going nowhere and confusing people.

Jane

Jane, were it not for SM's sophmoric vitriol it would be a worthwhile discussion.

I don't go by whats "recommended", I go by "what has been done"...that would be my scientific training coming through. With my background I do in fact have the experience of others over the years in Mid/southern Florida I have drawn on here that allows me to say what I'm saying.

So you can't tell me it can't be done down there, because it already has been done.

Thus using you're own assertion that the two areas are similar climates, I would disagree that Southern TX is too hot for an hour of direct sun in the early morning or late evening.

Look, this is a settled issue as far as I'm concerned. I've fully made my point and theres not much else to say. So I guess with that I'm content to my hat from this thread. As you partly pointed out, we are spinning our wheels on this thread.

And as you point out, no sense in continuing the nonesense.

This post was edited by terpguy on Wed, Apr 2, 14 at 20:11

"So you can't tell me it can't be done down there, because it already has been done. "

You can be very argumentative Terp and you should know when enough is enough.

I can tell you anything I want, as can anyone else. No one has a definitive statement on how much sunlight any plant can handle, there are too many variables.

Being a 'scientist' you should know better than making blanket statements like that. You are saying that 'it can be done because it already has.' Is that so? Has this someone grown in my environment? Have they grown under my conditions? I don't think so.

Give it up.

Jane

Thank you Jane...

Along with the light requirements, the rest of the statement posted from the 'known grower' was too general IMO. Color, fall temp drop, time when blooming, etc..., those 'generalizations' have nothing to do with where you are growing your plants.

Bob

Jane,

"you"was general, not you specifically.

Please don't conflate your growing area and the topic at hand: broader regions. Just because you can't doesn't mean others can't/haven't in your same general region.

So no, I didn't make a blanket statement. It's a statement based on experience and fact.

This post was edited by terpguy on Thu, Apr 3, 14 at 7:50

do like Jane says and give it up...