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Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Posted by terpguy 7 (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 22:11

I wanna talk about something other than phal culture. So anyone wanna share their phrag experience and tips?

I'm particularly curious to hear if anyone has actually killed theirs from excess water/root rot, especially the long petaled species and hybrids. The common wisdom is that you can't overwater them (maybe the caudatum types but I think I've noticed a shift in the culture advice for them lately). I'm curious to hear if practical experience bears that out.

When I think about it, I really haven't heard of bulbos and phrags developing rot.

Anyone wanna share their experience?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Terp,

I've been trying my hand at phrags for about 3-4 years. Some species some hybrids, I have 7 or 8 currently. I like to let mine sit in individual water filled trays when indoors, but when outside no trays as I water them every couple of days with a hose. Fairly high light, more light than my phals. I use very tall 5"/7.25" and 6"/8" paph pots for all of my phrags, switching to the 5"/6" tall pots seemed to help in my regime, but it may have been something else that changed also. I can't recall loosing one to root rot, but...

They can get pretty big, I'm not sure what I'll do in a few more years when they really get going... They take up a lot of my space in my grow room, but I feel it is worth it so far.

On a side note: I purchased: Phragmipedium caudatum var sanderae x Phrag Majestic Tresses from C&H last spring as a NBS seedling($$$), it bloomed this winter and it was a real winner. Some of the kovachii hybrids are pretty impressive also, but pretty expensive if not purchased as seedling size.

I know Brooke grows phrags also, so I'm looking forward to her comments.

Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Cool bob! Do you keep the caudatum hybrid in standing water?


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Terp,

This is the only one I have in a regular 5" clear pot. Watered @weekly, no standing water so far as I can see the roots and they are looking great, well maybe in standing water/tray once or twice over the winter when the media seemed very dry? It was too small for my tall 5" pots when I re-potted last spring, so I chose a regular 5" pot instead. I will re-pot to a 5" or 6" tall pot this spring. I'm going to water it with the others while outside (2-4 x week), I'll watch the rest of the comments in this thread to decide if I let it stand in water next winter.

I plant all of my phrags in a small orchiata mix, so hopefully I only have to re-pot them every 2-3 years.

Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Guys:
I have only one phrag, but it has bloomed for me, so woohoo! A friend getting out of the orchid habit gave me 2 phrags. One "Sorcerer's Apprentice" almost immediately, just a few weeks in my posession, kicked the bucket. huh. The other, Phrag wallisii X longifolia (I think, I'm not looking at the tag) is doing fine several years later. It's in a tall black square shape phrag pot with a somewhat coarser media with lots of charcoal. I keep it failry dry in winter due to the low temps in my tiny gh. Down to 40s. It sits in a dormant state during the cold, but as soon as sunshine strengthens, it seem s to perk up, and I am then more generous with water. This treatment was approved of by Glen Decker of Piping Rock.

That's all for now.
Happy growing
ML in WMass


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I find it really interesting you both are mentioning tall pots. This is the first I'm hearing about them. I seem to recall a similar recommendation for Paphs as well many years ago.


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Terp,

It appears my caudatum hybrid is going to be somewhat smaller than my the other phrags. The previously bloomed growth is only @10" tall, with maybe a 20" leaf span (tip to tip). Some of my others are a good 16"-20" tall with 24"-30" spans. The 2 new growths look like they will stay @ that size, maybe a bit larger.

It too will go into a 5" tall pot very soon. I feel the tall pots help to provide more moisture, longer to the roots. Like I said earlier, I noticed a difference when I switched to them, but it may have been other factors also.

Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I have 2, Gigantea x Caudatum and a Hanne Powpow. I have both in semi hydroponic pots.

The Gigantea x Caudatum was doing well and flowering until it was damaged in a fall from a high shelf. It is recovering but is still kinda ugly and a few years from flowering again.

The Hanne Powpow is flowering now and the growth is OK, but I'm not sure I like the set up for it. The rhizome seems to grow above the potting mix like it wants to climb. This years and last years growth are both above the mix and I don't see any new roots yet. I'm not sure if I should bury the rhizome or just leave it alone.


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I can talk Phrags too :>) I am down to 15 now because the big ones were getting really big and I needed the space. I grow mine in Catt light and right now all sit in water. I have always used deeper pots because my first acquisitions were in them.

When I grew the caudatum and one other species I can't remember now, I did not use the saucer method. I kept them fairly wet but no wet feet.

The one species that gives me trouble has been the bessae and one hybrid out of bessae, Fritz Schomberg. Some bessae do very well sitting in water but mine didn't. I babysat one bessae for a friend for two years and I grew his sitting in water but I almost killed mine and they were inches apart on the bench.

My Fritz has had several near death experiences so my last attempt is currently in a net pot in seedling Orchiata but sitting in a saucer. So far, I can see roots that appear happy and the new growths are doing well.

I've grown my Phrags in s/h, CHC and now seedling bark. All but my bessae has been happy regardless of the mix.

Lumpy several of the species Phags, including bessae, will "walk" up out of the pot. Since this a genera that doesn't object to repotting, you can pop it out, lower it, and it will never miss a beat.

With size and multiple growths Phrags can be in bloom for months.

Brooke


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Brooke,

FWIW: My Fritz is doing pretty well in a tall 6" pot and fine orchiata mix, sits in water @75% of the time during it's indoor ride, watered a lot when outside for the summer. I'm much more impressed with my Peruflora's Spirit (Eric Young ' Rocket Fire' 4N x kovachii ' Jumbo'), huge flowers @ twice as large as my Fritz's!!!

Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I didn't know that Phrags would get that big.

Bob, how long does the Orchiata last when sitting in water and does wick the water from the saucer to the top of the pot?

Brooke, I guessing I should bury the rhizome, I think of them as more of a terrestrial without exposed roots? I don't give mine as much light either, maybe I could bump it up a bit.

The Hanne Powpow flower opened today. They only open one at a time but they do keep coming for a couple months. It's funny how the flower drops off without wilting, it freaked me out the first time. My daughter takes them to school for show and tell.


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Bob I just saw a picture of a Fritz that was awarded at the Cincy judging center, or maybe it was the Cincy show, that was gorgeous. I have had this plant since '06. It was purchased from the breeder, Norton of Phal fame, and my husband paid $75.00 for it. I almost passed out at the expense - it was the most expensive orchid in the g/h. (blushing, that is no longer true). Every time Fritz grows backwards I decide to throw him out but I try another combination. I have bloomed it but I don't get good growth.

My Susanne Decker out of kovachii and I forget, is super easy to grow and bloom and the blooms are much bigger than my Fritz.

Lumpy from what I've read many Phrags "walk" up the mountainous terrain.

My big Phrags eventually go up to a regular nursery gallon pot before I divide them. They get huge and heavy and I don't want a bigger pot involved.

Brooke


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Phrags never really did well for me. The last time I tried yeas ago it was a besseae hybrid in S/H which keeled over. Another before that I think I tried a schlimmii hybrid amending the mix with soil moist. My first was a a Grande that, looking back, I think I under watered.

I'm in a position now where I'm trying them again with a more refined eye. I have a nitidisdimum I got that May bloom in a year or two, god willing. I also bought a flask of Phrag (Spot on 'Pink Revolution x Pink Panther 'Tony'), a fischeri/schlimmii influenced breeding that should be ready to deflasking soon. I went in on it with a former GW forumite, Patty. Can't wait to see how they turn out!


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Lumpy,
I've had a couple of my phrags in the same orchiata mix going on two years now. It definitely wicks up the pot when in water. I have a Barbra LeeAnn X longifolium cross that is hard to grow because it's always starting new growths up the stem of the plant. I ended up dividing it a couple of years ago because it just walked out of the pot in two different directions. I purchased a Hanne PopPow seedling a few years back and lost it, should probably try another sometime.

Brooke,
I too got my Fritz from HP and Katherine ($65!), I also got a 'Cahaba Glow' (soft orange, large very pretty flowers) from them at the same time (a freebie because of some shipping issues) that I like better than the Fritz also. My Fritz had two spikes with a couple of branches this year, at one point it had 5 open flowers. But, I'm just not 'excited' by it... Plus, mine seems to never have a perfect flower, dents in the pouch, twisted petal, etc... I wonder if it something about the Norton's cross?

Terp,
I used to grow almost everything in S/H but stopped a few years back because my phals didn't like it in winter, but I would think it may be a perfect medium for the water loving phrags, besseae included... Maybe try one of the deflasked ones in a small S/H pot for an experiment?


Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I have not joined in because I do not consider myself knowledgeable about Phrags. I killed a couple 10 odd years ago and have watched friends have problems with theirs. I'm usually focused on a couple of genera at a time that I'm pursuing and Phrags have not been one of them.

This has now changed. Last fall I purchased a couple of kovaciii hybrids, one is on the gallery forum. Both spiked but one blasted. Both are seedlings so I refused to get exited of their potential looks as you can suffer disappointment with seedlings.The one that bloomed is spectacular, both are making new growths so I guess things are going well.

Both came in regular 4" square pots in fine orchiata. I have had them in the cool house and water them every 2 days. No trays of standing water. I have read this post carefully and will repot the into larger and taller pots in small orchiata.and continue the watering routine.

I don't find the pouch objectionable but can see what you mean. There us a Peruflora's Spirit on eBay but they want $150. I know they are expensive but this is over the top. I will however lay on a new Phrag on a on a monthly basis and see what develops. Unbloomed seedlings seem to be the only ones obtainable at a reasonable price but one a onth for a year or 2 usually produces results.

By then I'll know a little more about them and make comments.

Nick


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

So how does one lay on a collection of quality Phrags? I know once one gets into it, the fog lifts and things become clear. Some of you have been down that road and can help.

Looking at Piping Rock, Mount Prospect, Orchids Limited and Orchid Inn the plants certainly are available. Judging from some of their prices I think they are using Gold in their mix. What has been your experience with the above? Would you please rate them and add any other sources that should be researched.

How does one get a straight Phrag kovachii? Do they mostly sell seedlings or are divisions available. There seems to be quite a color and size range, I assume getting a good one requires refinancing the old homestead. On the other hand I would not consider paying a hefty price for a seedling if you really don't know what it is going to look like.

Thanks for any advice, Nick


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Nick,

I haven't used any of your listed vendors for my phrags.

Online I've used: Orchidview (HP and Katherine Norton) for my Fritz and Cahaba Glow, Carter and Holmes for a really nice caudatum hybrid, Normans for the Peruflora's Spirit (kovachii hybrid).

From local orchid shows: New Vision Orchids for a schlimii cross, and I think one or two from Windswept in Time Orchids, I think.

There's a couple more, but I need to check tags when I get home...

Bob


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I've used Piping Rock and Orchids Limited but have heard good reports on Orchid Inn since he is a specialist in all slipper orchids.

If you want a kovachii I recommend Piping Rock but it won't be cheap. I got my kovachii from a member of my orchid club who bought a compot of them several years ago. Hopefully it will bloom on the new growth it is growing now.

Brooke


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Nick, et al:
Straight from Glen Decker when he gave a talk at our orchid society meeting - phrags can be divided, but not re-produced by meristem process as Catts, and other genera. Thus, the higher price tags. The grower has to raise up a huge amount of seedlings to keep up with demand. Not to mention, some of the new introductions are just that - new to the trade by a few years compared to over 100 years for Catts, so breeding has not yet built up a stock.
Happy shopping
ML from WMass


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I've ordered once from Piping Rock once. It was a kovachii hybrid when they first came out. I think I paid almost $100...for an experimental plant I had no clue if i could grow or not. It died quickly.

Needless to say I'll never make that mistake again.

I will say the plant was immaculate when I got it. So I'd recommend him.


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I have two Phrags and I give both of them filtered afternoon sun and standing water from Saturday thru Tuesday. I fertilize every other watering and I get two healthy blooms a year :-) One (the grandiflora hybrid) is in Sphagnum moss and the other NOID gift is in small bark.
I love the way those "tendrils" continue to grow after the flowers have opened...
I <3 Orchids!!

John


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

Whoops!! I Misspoke in my earlier post... I have a Wallisii x Grande, not a grandiflora.

John


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RE: Anyone wanna talk phrags?

I have a few phrags. 2 need to be put into bigger pots (there was a space constraint for winter so I avoided it) the other that I have is Ashley Wilkes, which is definitely larger! It went immediately into a large pot (not a gallon, maybe half, similar depth just not as wide) and it's loving it even though that pot was waaaay to big for the 2 growth chunk that's now at 4! And it's barely halfway across the width.

I think this was the best choice ultimately. I never have it standing in water but it is always still damp below the first few inches of mix even if I haven't watered for a couple weeks. It makes sense. Plus I'm not disturbing it, though I did take it out of the pot after the first year to make sure that the mix wasn't suffocating it.

I have it in medium wood chips with s/h pellets (it was in there before, but I didn't like how often I had to top it up, it just wasn't working out).


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