Thanks for this post, Nick. I was actually wondering whether or not I could flush with tap and then rinse with RO or rain water. I have a small RO system so sometime I start to run low towards the end of my watering routine.

This advice came from Andy's Orchids so has validity.

Nick

Phals aren't mentioned, but I actually was thinking, at work today, about posting a question about tap water for Phals. I still only have the one rescue, but will tap water have a negative affect on it?

I have lots of dirt plants (thanks, Jane-good way to separate them, at least in my mind!) and I let water sit out for them, so the chlorine evaporates. I've been watering the orchid with tepid water at the sink, so I can let it run for a couple of minutes, but, am I doing damage that way?

Lynn

Tap water is good enough for Phals. Letting
chlorine evaporate is a good idea, too bad most up to date municipalities have switched to chloramine a long time ago which takes 30 days to evaporate.

Nick

Thanks, Nick. I will email the city and ask what they use, but knowing tap water won't hurt a phal is reassuring.

I know phals are not the ultimate in orchids, but to me it's still rather exotic, and very, very different from any other plant I've ever taken care of before. Seeing it grow, not in soil, is amazing, LOL!

Lynn

doggsLL,

Do you have a water softener? If so, try to get your orchid water from a non-softened tap/spigot. BTW: Your local car wash's super rinse cycle water is a good place to get some R/O cheaply. I find I need to flush my phals with RO occasionally, I water with R/O about 1/2 the time and tap the other, if not I get a mineral/whitish build-up in the media over time.

As always, good luck.

Bob

Good point! Tap water is OK as long as it is not softened water.

Nick

The masdevallia I've had for about 6 months has only been watered with municipal tap water. It looks great and has lots of new growth appearing.

Masdevallia are a mixed bag of tricks. Some of the hybrids are very tough as are many of the species. Some of the species like hirtzii, medusa to name a couple are very sensitive and probably will not do well. Dracula very part of Masdevallia until they were separated into their own genus. Most of them are not too tolerant of tap water.

Many Pleurothallid are also quite tolerant but then most of your other cloud forest genera like Lepanthes, Dryadella are not. Scaphosepalum is, I have had a Scaphosepalum verucosum in nonstop bloom for over 12 years. got it from the $7.50 table at SBOE and it has followed me around to 2 homes and several greenhouses never to miss a beat and never to be out of bloom. Got tap water most of the time, RO water the rest. In a cool GH now, a corner of the backyard at other times.

I would try everything in tap water and switch to RO if they don't do well. Some of the rarer species from Ecuagenera are the exception. Would not risk them and give them clean water from the get-go. These genera on the other hand are not that popular.

Nick

Nope, don't need a water softener, but thanks for thinking about it. My city actually wins awards for water quality, and they have already responded to the email I sent last night - chlorine, not chloramines.

The car wash would be a good idea, but I honestly don't trust either one I have within easy driving distance. Neither one will tell me if they re-use their rinse water. I asked a couple years ago because, living in New England, I wanted to NOT build up road salt on my Jeep. I use the shut off to save as much water as I can, but I now wash it at home because of that.

However, I may have a good alternative. I have 4 aquariums with just over 200 gallons of water total. I do a water change of 25%, one tank per weekend, and use a water conditioner that neutralizes chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, etc, in the new water. I think I'll use the water siphoned out of an aquarium to flush once in a while. The nutrients from fish poop can't hurt either, right! :)

When I lived in NY I had RO installed under my kitchen sink. We had well water and it was very hard, full of minerals. When I switched to RO I saw immediate change in new growths. Masdes improved as did the intergenerics.

Florida, I have no idea what the water is like but I know it is chlorinated. My guess is its okay because so many people grow orchids here and they seem to do fine with the hose. But the first thing we did when we moved in was to install RO under the sink again. I will not drink nor cook in tap water.

I have started mixing with tap water when I fertilize. MSU seems the only place which offers Fertilizer for use with Rain or RO. I do have a bunch of rain barrels and have managed to get through the winter with the rain water and RO. I also use it on my dirt potted plants which like rain water. I have a Nepenthes and a Bat Plant which only gets rain or RO.

ThedogsLL, aquarium water is great. I had multiple tanks and always used the water. Switched some over to salt and ran a 150 gallon salt and that took care of using the water. But the fresh tanks were always used.

Jane

The phal has actually sprouted a couple of new roots, or at least stubs that look like roots, so yes, it likes aquarium water. :)

Hi
When I was in Costa Rica i got to see some Cattleyas growing naturally and was so surprised as it was NOTHING like most culture methods lol. Unfortuneately most were up in the tree tops so obsevation was impossible but one very old one was less than ten feet up but did require climbing the tree. was onlyy there 3 days so actual obsevation was VERY limited.
First it had 25 leaves along with leafless PBs looking much like a pot cultured except the color was very yellowish
if I were growing it at home would say it was sick lol
Second it was completely surrounded by other plants with several ferns actually shadowing it.
Third and most surprising to me was the rain. it rained BUCKETS everyday. and the Mass dripped continuously
alll the time I was there WAY too much water lol
Last it was not in flower but had spent sheaths in several locations and judging from the size would guess it had been there a long time .
So wish, I could have got close to others but required binoculars to get a glimpse of them let alone identify
Anyway the whole experience was fascinating as I know nobody including me ,who grows catts anywhere near what nature was doing lol
Wish I'd had some tools to check pH of the water that was dripping was VERY amber colored and very rich in organics Definitely NOT RO water
Might mention that that particular area is considered wet/dry rainforest meaning that there were seasonal periods of low rainfall BUt was still very humid though NOT misty. Would guess the rainfall to be very pure BUT
there are several vocano belching ash and gases though I couldn't see any traces in the trees this MUST be very rich in minerals?? gary

Hi
When I was in Costa Rica i got to see some Cattleyas growing naturally and was so surprised as it was NOTHING like most culture methods lol. Unfortuneately most were up in the tree tops so obsevation was impossible but one very old one was less than ten feet up but did require climbing the tree. was onlyy there 3 days so actual obsevation was VERY limited.
First it had 25 leaves along with leafless PBs looking much like a pot cultured except the color was very yellowish
if I were growing it at home would say it was sick lol
Second it was completely surrounded by other plants with several ferns actually shadowing it.
Third and most surprising to me was the rain. it rained BUCKETS everyday. and the Mass dripped continuously
alll the time I was there WAY too much water lol
Last it was not in flower but had spent sheaths in several locations and judging from the size would guess it had been there a long time .
So wish, I could have got close to others but required binoculars to get a glimpse of them let alone identify
Anyway the whole experience was fascinating as I know nobody including me ,who grows catts anywhere near what nature was doing lol
Wish I'd had some tools to check pH of the water that was dripping was VERY amber colored and very rich in organics Definitely NOT RO water
Might mention that that particular area is considered wet/dry rainforest meaning that there were seasonal periods of low rainfall BUt was still very humid though NOT misty. Would guess the rainfall to be very pure BUT
there are several vocano belching ash and gases though I couldn't see any traces in the trees this MUST be very rich in minerals?? gary

Congratulations Gary, you discovered sliced bread Twice, no less! This is exactly how they grow in nature and I grow most of mine the same way. My Cattleya types are all mounted. This does not mean they are hanging on branches, it means the roots are exposed to air like the plant you described.

1) The classical mount, a tree branch. Stick the plant on it and never touch it again. I have some who have been on the same mount approaching 15 years and may well resemble the plants you saw.

2) Wooden or plastic basket. Difference between growing them ON a basket rather than IN a basket is that my plants are growing in EMPTY baskets. Works exactly like the tree branch except the wood has been rearrange to look like a basket. Again, once there, I never touch them again, may put the whole thing in a larger basket when it's time or just let them ramble on.

3) Plastic or clay pots. Mounting plants on our conventional plastic pots only requires you to refrain yourself from adding bark or coconut. Put the plant in a small pot without medium. Often I add a few large rocks, 1 1/2" to 2" size to stabilize it and give the pot substance to keep it from falling over. When the plant rambles over the edge, drop everything into the next size pot, also empty. The roots will fill all available space. I have a huge BLC which was last potted in 1988 by the previous owner which is about 2' x 2' x 1' in size. After 25 year, I suspect the bark in the 6" pot it's in, is probably slightly deteriorated but who cares.

All of the above plants grow similar to what you are describing and cannot be over-watered. Never need to be repotted and offer a painless, satisfying and somewhat effortless way to grow them. During the heat of the summer, they need to be watered more often, once a week does not work for them. I usually water them every 2 to 3 days unless we get into the 90s in which case I water them every day. Tap water is all they ever get with a little fertilizer added every time.

I do have a potting bench, but almost all of my epiphytes never need repotting. A variety of plants, Bulbos, cloud forest plants, terrestrials and a few others do better the conventional way and need to get repotted as the sphagnum moss deteriorates. Stanopeas, Lycaste, Angola for example, also don't like the empty pot treatment, they are in something.

In the end, the best medium to plant most epiphytes in is air, that's what their growth media is in nature and you cannot go wrong with it. It also never deteriorates and you don't need to repot. We are so brainwashed that plants need to be in a pot with their roots covered with something, we don't give that method a chance. It works extremely well.

Nick

Nick says, 'In the end, the best medium to plant most epiphytes in is air, that's what their growth media is in nature and you cannot go wrong with it.'

You CAN go wrong with it and most people do.

Most of us do not live where these various orchids come from and have adapted to.

My climate is not correct for 99% of my orchids. It wasn't in NY and it isn't in Florida. Furthermore, I do not want to water every day or have the ability to do so.

I've seen orchids growing in their native environment and was not overly impressed. Most were diseased and beaten up. Their roots were covered with litter of various sorts and frankly, did not look healthy. They had flowers, but the plant itself looked nasty! Not something I would want on my table.

I know so many people trying to grow their orchids on trees. They think its the easy way out. It is not and most forget about them. They either die or never flower. They look terrible.

If you live in an environment where rainfall is frequent, lovely breezes you might be lucky. The reality is we live where we live and we can't grow orchids 'naturally.' We need to water, protect them from cold, fertilize, etc.

I'd rather grow them in pots with media because they look better, I can forget about them for a week, and I can control their growth. I can also, bring them inside to enjoy their beauty.

Jane

{{gwi:159338}}

I agree with much of what you say, Jane, but the best way to grow orchids is using what works best for you. I grow my Masdies exactly like you with similar results. I'm a heavy handed waterer, retired, with lots of time on my hands. I love wartring and find it no bother. Masdies and Dracula love frequent watering, Catts do not. Unless they are bare-root.

Given the fact that I water frequently and have many hanging mounted plants which need frequent watering, the plants in pots underneath would get drowned unless they also are mounted, in pots that is. Then everything works out.

James Rose from Cal-Orchids put it beautifully once. I asked him a question related to the watering/media and his response was: "It all works as long as you water correctly for whatever way you choose to grow them", and that about sums it up.

Another key element is to enjoy what you are doing. I love watering, I do not love repotting, so there you go.

Nick

I totally hate watering and that is my downfall! The masde in the photo is sitting in a self-watering pot!

Now I live in a climate where it rarely rains and the heat and sunlight is torturous. I'm forced to find a way to keep my plants alive with minimal watering.

I suspect that the Chloramine thing is a bit of a beat up.
There are 50 growers in the local orchid society and you can bet your booties that most of them water their orchids from the tap and subject their orchids with the dreaded Chloramine.
Cannot find much info. on the net, but i think the point that is not being made is that the water is a thin film on the leaves and hopefully the same in the potting mix and perhaps this helps the Chloramine to break down or evaporate (We need some Science help) the ex resident boffin is not available so i cannot ask him.

As far as the orchids getting drenched and surviving that is what happens here. It never drizzles much. It usually rains buckets or none. Everything in the shade-house seems to love a drenching summer or winter. Especially so since I stopped using Coco-Nut Chunks in potting mixes.

Misunderstanding, Arthur, there is nothing dreaded about Chloramine, it does no harm. Someone mentioned that they set their tap warte rout to evaporate the Chlorine. My resp[onse was that this will happen to Chlorine but not to Chloramine. Turns out that her city does not use Chloramine, mine does which is no problem for me as it does no harm.

Setting out water would not work for me, I use it straight out of the tap, Chlorine, Chloramine, Arsenic, Cobalt 6, Uranium, Cyanide, Strychnine and everything else that's in it. Once a year they send me a report of what's in the tap water and it reads like a horror story except that the concentrations are so minute they have about as much effect as homeopathic medicine which also sports minute concentrations and has no effect what so ever.

So have no fear, Cloramine won't do any harm

Nick

jane
Interesting discussion I wouldn't grow any of mine like I saw in the wild lol though i do grow several species attached to trees though I'd bet dollars to donuts I get half the flowers and certainly less vigor than in pots.
What surprised me most was how small a percentage of the total masss of plants in a given area that orchids were.
and how generally sickly looking they were . Consider that
Costa Rica has 1700 natives and yet I saw only 4 and one of those was a dendrobium lol Would love to see Vandas growing wild can't imagine what a tangled mass it must be lol
Tthere used to be a person in Venezuela that posted here
and he recounted trying to move various species to his garden with a very low success rate. just finding them was tough!!lol
Growing au natural is certainly NOT for the average hobbyist though it's certainly a lot of fun to trylol gary

I love this discussion..

What I will tell you from what I experience is this..

When it's summer and I use the tap from the hose, some roots seem to get marred, the aerial ones that is and even die off..Get black areas..

When using rain water, the roots stay prestine and very very white, light green..

So what I do is alternate on some and on most, I will only use collected rain water in barrels...I hate to use tap water on any orchids, and that includes most of my houseplants..

I notice a difference in the ends of peace lillies and palms..The rain watered ones are green to the tips and the tap watered ones get black tips..

Thanks for the info here.

Mike

[perfect time for a rant I've held in for a few weeks now]

What James Rose said, Nick, is just as wrong as this one person on the houseplant forum who swears your choice in potting media is the sole reason most indoor plants decline.

The truth is that culture in an interplay of light, temp, and moisture (in all its forms). What James said is only accurate when you complete control of all variables (I.e. In a greenhouse). Most indoor growers have little choice in how they grow their plants because light and temp are fixed variables (as is humidity, one aspect of moisture). No amount of "watering correctly" will allow most indoor growers to grow their plants in promix if that's how they choose to, despite what James would have you think. It stays too wet for too long. Same goes for straight sphagnum moss (much smaller number of people on this one, especially depending on what you grow).

It's actually really irritating how these people try to distill proper culture into one or two sound bites, only to (inadvertantly I'm sure) be disseminating distorted truths. Even if they grow great plants it doesn't mean they explain it well. James' statement is a clear case of not accurately describing how he cares for his own plants. Or how he got to the point where most of what he grows thrives.

I'm sure he played with more than just "water correctly". Changed potting media, played with light, temps, you name it.

[/rant]

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I've been frustrated because I've been seeing a lot of that lately from a lot of different sources. It's not just James Rose and I'm not trying to pick on him (I know how respected cal orchids is), but this afforded the perfect introduction.

Totally agree with Terpguy!

Jane