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Moir's Weeds

Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 20:51

This is a continuation of the thread over on the orchid gallery about Tolumnia, Rodrumnia, Zelemnia.
What happened to the plants in the collection of Robert and Susan Perreira were they scattered or were they purchased in bulk?
Same problem here as in the USA, hard to find plants for sale, at a recent orchid show a dozen or so vendors had none for sale.
Started off about 30 to 35 years ago with about 10 or 12 plants described as "selection from Robert and Susan Perreira" mounted on cork and now have about 350 plants. A reclusive orchid buddy who does some breeding has about a thousand.
If you go to the RHS Register and search on the name Willowbanks you will find many hybrids, I have no idea where in Australia Willowbanks are ....but it shows that breeding of the little beauties is going on and it must be so somewhere in mainland USA or Hawaii.
Might be a clue in the clone name �Waimao� if it belongs to a particular orchid nursery.

As for trying to export stuff, there is no way I am going to get tangled up in that nightmare. Sorry!

Here is a link that might be useful: Long discussion on orchid gallery


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Moir's Weeds

Sorry to hear you don't want to get tangled up in a nightmare! I know what you mean and I don't blame you.

I have looked all over for them, they are for sale but it's always the same ones that recur over and over. I'd think no more than 30 or so different clones. Since they are all seedlings, there is some variation but Toll Tequila Sunrise doesn't change that much from plant to plant.

Arthur, I do know some people in Australia, if I find someone who is willing to export to the US, is there some way to get plants to him that would be totally unique in the US. 2 separate transactions. First buy the plants from you or anyone else you might know who would be willing to join in. Then compensate him for his troubles as he sends them on their way.

Once they get here, I know a vendor, Lico Orchids, who is very good with them. He has a good selection which he embellishes all the time. (Still the same ones I referred to earlier). With his help, I would partner with them, the imports would be grown and divided and eventually spread to the orchid buying public. Since I have mixed success with them I would place them all in his care and just be satisfied with a division once this is possible.

If this works, 10 years from now it would be looked upon as a milestone in Tollumnia culture in the US. It really is a shame that so many of these beauties have been lost to us

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

A break through has occurred. On Tolumniamatt's information I looked up Orchidom in the Dominican Republic. They have a very impressive list of Tollumnias. Arthur, please look it over and comment.

They sell to the public, $7 to $8 a plant as long as only one item of a given clone is desired. Less it you take 10. They have an agent in the US so no import permit is required. They do like to fill a box with plants. For Tollumnias that would be 50 to 100 of them. Obviously they are used to dealing with vendors and wholesale selling.

I'm looking forward to receiving their price/product list and may entertain joining with others in order to get a decent number of plants into the order. I would love to get 100 of the little buggers but that's not going to happen. I do know others who will join me in ordering some.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

I have placed an order for some Tollumnias from Orchidom. They will go out by next week. This is the last time they will ship a small order. From now on their minimum order will be 200 plants. They are either $8,00 - 3 to 4 year old plants, many of which have bloomed or $4.00 for small one or two fan plants.

If anyone wants to add to this order, contact me in the next 2 days and I can include your order with mine. They will come to me via Miami and I can forward them to you. You can go to their list of Equitants to get the number of the product.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Arthur, are you paying attention? I have finally found the Perreira collection in Hawaii or what's become of it. Apparently many of their plants were taken over by Puani Orchids in Hawaii who continued with the breeding of them. At one point they stopped, retired or whatever and sold all of their Tollumnias to a fellow named Mel Waki whose email address I will provide if contacted privately. Puani has no Tolumnias at this time. Mel Waki is actively hybridizing them and also sells them.

Photos of his plants can be seen at:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hawaiiansunshine/sets/72157638130449845/

Photos of the Orchidom plants can be seen at:

http://www.orchidom.com/files/onc eng.htm

We are getting to the bottom of this, took a long time. After I recover financially after buying from Orchidom (their July order will be the last time anyone can buy retail from them, after this, it's a 200 plant minimum), I'll get some of Mel's plants. With persistent digging, pushing, begging, pleading, grovelling and shoving it should be possible to get 100 different crosses all facing the right side up. (Northern hemisphere acquisitions that is, who drive on the right side of the road which happens to be the right side).

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

  • Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 5, 14 at 21:13

It is good news that the Perreira collection has not been scattered to the four winds. I'll pass the news on to my orchid growing friend who has Tolumnia contacts in Queensland.

You are going to have a lot of fun watching those little babies flower for the first time.

I still do not know who or what Willowbanks are;
53 registered Tolumnia or Rodrumnia names beginning with Willowbank

Here is a pic. of one of their hybrids, cannot remember where I got it.

Tolumnia Willowbank Bang x Sniffen
Willowbank Bang x Sniffen

Shortest day has passed and the sun has stopped traveling north. Have to agree with you about the cars, makes more sense to drive on the other side of the road.


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RE: Moir's Weeds

The break through in the Tolumnia universe is taking on real shape. I have ordered 15 different crosses of Tolumnias from the Hawaiian source mentioned above and the bill, including shipping, comes to a staggering $87.00. That's $5.80 a plant. They will be shipped Monday and I should have them next Wed or Thursday. I will take a picture and report.

These are all crosses I have not seen in the US either on eBay or offered by various vendors. I find that development fairly exiting. So exiting in fact that, in deference to Arthur, I will attempt to drive on the left hand side of the street tomorrow. The only bad news is that the sun is indeed headed south now, days are shortening and before we know it Christmas, with all it's fury, will be upon us ---- again.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

The ones from Hawaii arrived. Most have 2 to 3 fans, several have more. The order from the Dominican Republic will be delayed until September because of extreme heat. They do not feel safe to ship.

Here is the list of what Mel Waki sent me, Do you recognize the names, Arthur?

RRM
=(Bravo x Moonmist)
=(Dynamo x Moonmist)
=(Dynamo x windsong)
=Imua x Rrm Hula Lady)
=Imua x RrmMoonmist
=Loco Moco
=(Mystique x Blushing Angel) x Rrm (Bravo x Blushing Angel)
=Nalo x Rrm (Spunky x Just Splendid)
=Oncore
=Pixie Dancer x Rrm Moxy
=Pixie Delight
=Spunky x Misty
=Spunky x Rrm Misty
Tolum=Talisman x Rrm Bravo

A picture of the group.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

A typical plant. He grows them in an empty net pot in a small square with no media. The round rim you see belongs to the net pot.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Great thread on equitants (AKA Moir's Weeds.)

Last I saw them, Bob and Susan Perriera still had their collection. I haven't seen any new hybrids from them for a while.

Puanani's breeding line is from Richella Orchids (Richard + Stella Mizuta = Richella) for the Rrm. and Kaoru Oka's line for the straight Tolumnias. Kaoru took over the equitant breeding from his son Jon. Jon created such beauties as Sniffen, Irene Gleason and Seka.

Mel is continuing Gavin Yamada's (Puanani Orchids) breeding. Growing them very well I might add.

Waimao is a road leading to Kawamoto Orchids. I think Waimao was used by Ernest Iwanaga who was a growing and doing lab work around the same time that Reid Kawamoto's grandfather Patrick was starting Kawamoto Orchids. Waimao is also used by Kawamoto.

Randy


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RE: Moir's Weeds

If Mel Waking does not have the Perriera strains, I wonder who does. They can't just disappear but no one seems to know

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

I asked him and got the following response:

Hi Nick. I have not seen Robert and Susan Perreira for quite awhile. I believe they still have their collection of equitants. They used to regularly bring their plants out for judging but not in the last several years. I was lucky to get a couple of compots from them about 5 years ago. A couple of plants from one of the compot won merit awards. I'm not aware of anyone who is selling their hybrids. Mel

And that's probably all we'll ever get to know,

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

  • Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 19:47

Tolumnia Tom Wilson used as pollen Parent
Tolumnia Tom Wilson 'Rosemeath'
Zelemnia Liz used as pod parent
Zelemnia Liz 'Full Moon'
Produced Zelemnia Alyshia Kay
Zelemnia Alyshia Kay

Tom Wilson was originated by Robert Perreira

Zelemnia Liz was originated by Ross Maidment of Aranbeem Orchid, Australia.
They no longer export orchids.

Zelemnia Liz is Tolumnia Golden Sunset x Zelenkoa onusta

Tolumnia Golden Sunset was originated by Robert Perreira

So even though the latest names appear foreign a bit of tracking back reveals common ancestry.

Nick, please stop showing those Photos, my little babies are struggling in comparison. Have to move to Hawaii. Lol.

When I posted the original post I was thinking of wonderful stud plants, I now realise that breeders in different countries have continued on from the base set up by Moir, Perreira, Oka, Richella and others.


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Can someone please define for me the abbreviation RRM?

Thank you.


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Go to Orchidom's web page at

http://www.orchidom.com/files/onc eng.htm

You'll not only find pictures of beautiful Equitants but also note their names. The following abbreviations are used:

Tolu = Tolumnia
Rrm = Rodrumnia
Zlm = Zelemnia
Zgz = Zelumguesia
Otz = Ontolezia

All of them are variations of Equitants. I could not tell one from the other nor do I know what makes them be the specific kind. Maybe Arthur will enlighten us. Tolu and Rrm appear to be the commonest one in retail sales. Orchidom"s page is the only place I have seen the others offered for sale. They have changed their page and removed the price list and order page indicating that they have now switched to wholesale. My order is still pending and if some one wants any of these little beauties, you can piggy back to my order. After that it's a 200 plant minimum.

Tolumnia is the only recognized name for the 30 species of the genus. All the other names, including Tolumnia, are used for man made hybrids.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Actually they offer some explanation. "Equitant" is defined as 75% or more Tolumnia and is called Tolumnia, the others are called 'Small Growing Oncidium Intergenerics'.

Whatever, they are colorful and cheerful.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

  • Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
    Thu, Jul 17, 14 at 21:05

Hi Nick,
Zgz = Zelumguezia
Otz = Ontolezia
Are as scarce as hen's teeth. Found some pics of primary hybrids of Zelemnia and a few looked a bit like onusta. They were probably discarded for future breeding so I cannot tell Tolu/Rrm/Zlm apart by looking at the blooms.

Have you reduced the load on your wallet a bit?


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RE: Moir's Weeds

My wallet is much lighter, thanks for asking. Did you bring up Orchidom and inspect their offerings? They have one Otz and several Zgz.. Originally I was less enthusiastic about the Zgz as they don't seem to have the strong colors but I'll probably get one while the getting is good. I did order their only Otz.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

  • Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
    Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 2:51

Cannot agree with that definition. Equitant depends on the leaf shape. Had a look at the pics. on orchidom site and it shows the variety in the flowers of the little beauties. My Tolumnia loving orchid buddy has gone off in other breeding (non equitant) directions since we managed to bump off Tom Wilson by dividing it into two (sob), but these things happen.

Do you remember Jones and Scully and the wonderful stuff they used to sell at wonderful prices?

Some of their plants are still good and tough. Have to be to survive my conditions. Bet it is still grown somewhere in the USA.
Here is one of theirs, grex registered by Moir.
Tolumnia William Thurston 'Orchidglade'
Tolumnia William Thurston 'Orchidglade'


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Exiting afternoon in store for me. We used to have a very active grower/orchid nursery called 'The Rowland Collection'. Several deaths and an illness confining the main remaining owner to a wheelchair has ended that. They allowed their business lic to lapse and are no longer advertising or actively promoting business. Managed to gain an invitation to peruse the left over Tolumnias this afternoon. I'm told that their total number of all orchids is less than 100 so I'm not expecting much but will have a look. Wish me luck, they used to have quite a few crosses.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

Didn't expect much and didn't get much. A dying nursery with left over plants. Got Tol (Rainbow x Caledonia) and Tol Golden Luis 'Hapsburg'. The later was the last one so now all they have left are a few more of the former. I'm glad I went and snagged the Hapsburg.

Nick


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RE: Moir's Weeds

  • Posted by arthurm Sydney, NSW AUST (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 15, 14 at 20:25

A dying nursery, sounds so sad. On a happier note some pics of Tolu. Golden Luis 'Hapsburg' on the net and it is lovely.


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