Bellina and violacea do tend to be a little more difficult. They have thinner leaves which means they require higher humidity, they want higher light than most phals, and are hot growing, meaning they don't like to get much below 70F. Its one of my personal favorite plants and I've been struggling with it. I have one that has been limping along. grows leaves but doesn't really get bigger, doesn't bloom. And i've had it now for 2 years. Should have been blooming size by now.

Thanks for the response, terpguy. That's very helpful information.

So it's the extra warmth they need that makes them difficult. And they sulk if they don't get it. Not sure I can provide that in my basement in winter. However, the temperature at plant leaf level is about 80 when the lights are on, so could be.

I have a violace x equestris cross that is 3/4 violacea, and it has really thrived, grown vigorously in the last year, and has two spikes on it right now. This spring I put it out each morning on my little suntrap front porch and brought it in each night, and it grew and grew. It's doing well outside on my hot deck now, too.

So I am starting to get a little confidence in trying a pure violacea or bellina. But I needed to know more, so thanks again.

I grow bellina along with my other phals. No one told me it was difficult, so I never found that out. They are all on an east-facing windowsill, with humidity trays. Otherwise no special treatment. Their spot certainly gets colder than 65 during the winter but they keep putting out their new leaves.
I have all my phals in sphagnum that I have to change at least yearly. That makes for a quicker wet-dry cycle; I sometimes have to water twice a week in winter.
Sounds like you have a great set up for bellina--and every other phal too.
Margo

Hey, Margo. Nice to see you again.

I'm glad to hear bellina isn't hard for you, even with no special treatment. I'm very curious about the fragrance.

I use sphag for the phals, too. It's great-- roots are beautiful and repotting is easy.

I think we should re-name you "The Phal Gal"! :-)

There was a very long thread about bellina's about a year ago. Really nice pics. GW is messed up right now and I can't seem to find it. May have it clipped. Someone in FL had the mother of all Bellina's. What a photo.

Similar to the Princess Kaiulani. One of the parents. They are more difficult to grow than the Princess. How can I explain it? The roots are like a bunch of aerial roots. They need to be run dryer than a regular phal. It takes a little practice to get the balance. Yes their leaves rip just as easily as Princess K. but more fragrant. My Princesses have no fragrance. The bellina smells... well, violet to me.

I grow mine in lava/little spag, let them go dry. Have them outdoors this summer. They grow more slowly than the hybrid and take more light & heat. They stall when not given proper light/heat. They don't like it much below 60 nights.

Misting is not a good idea. they spot (Boitris) or the leaves rip. Crown rot is easy to do with misting. Have some in my plant hospital too. Took 9 months to recover it. Not one of my more successful recoveries. They are sequential bloomers and well worth having.

Clara

Clara is especially right about the ease of crown rot. The leaves are held much more compactly, so the crown is held much closer to the soil level. For this reason, a lot of people who grow them successfully grow them in baskets on their side so the water can just run off. And again, beause they like their water (but like to dry out as clara pointed out, much like a vanda!!!), the higher humidity is a must. With this plant, it seems like either you can keep it alive or you can't. very little inbetween, so i'm not surprised to hear margo isn't having any problems at all. If you can do phals, give bellina a try. At best you get the fragrance (distinctly fruit loops to me), at worst you get a rotted mess.

I have also read that P. bellina is more difficult to grow than other Phals. As far as I can tell, that pertains only to blooming them, not to keeping them healthy. They seem to have more specific requirements in that regard than other Phals (including P. violacea).

I've had a P. bellina for about two years. It's a nice looking plant that has been perfectly healthy and has grown very well with a CHC medium in a clay pot. My problem with it is bud development. Last summer, it produced a chubby little spike, but it stalled before buds formed. This summer, it did the same thing, so now there are two chubby little spikes, but no buds.

So far, increased light has not made a difference. I have not figured out for sure just what it wants. Maybe it needs even more light to build sufficient energy for blooming. Maybe it needs more of some nutrient, even though it's been well fed. Maybe it wants to be warmer.

I'm mostly suspecting that may be the the problem - not warm enough. Maybe temperatires of 72 to 75 degrees in our air-conditioned house are too low for it to bloom. I might try finding a morning sun-afternoon shade spot outside to see how it likes daytime highs in the upper 90s.

Meanwhile, I suspect that neither the indoor or outdoor environments at my house are ideal for P. bellina. In the environments you can offer in zone 6, a bellina might feel right at home. Get one and give it a try!

Go for it - you will never know until you try. I don't have a straight bellina but do have some crosses with it as one parent. It appears from some of the above descriptions it would be most successful on a mount.

I guess it is time for me to search for one to see if I can grow and bloom it.

Brooke

I have one...nice sized, small spike that has stalled. Don't know what to do about it, but it's survived so far. Seems to like being in the sphag better than anything else. I have it with my other phals, but like I said, in sphag. Maybe it will start doing something soon...I HOPE!!
Patty

Hey, Terpguy, you have email!

Wow, I am delighted with all this information. The explanations of why they need higher humidity and are susceptible to leaf spots and rot (thin leaves) and to crown rot (compacted leaves, close to the ground)...

You've no idea how useful this was! It gave me two new dimensions to "see" all my phals with that I just hadn't thought of, even tho I think of myself as an acute observer. I'm impressed with how helpful just a little bit of new expert's knowledge can be-- it can transform your whole mental apparatus (or whatever it is up there :)

The violacea and Princess K *do* have those thinnish floppy leaves and no neck (short interleaf space). And sure enough, they hold water in the crown if you aren't careful. But others, like the unkillable Baldan's Kaleidoscope, have those thick, waxy, dark green leaves and the long neck (interleaf spaces), and water just runs on down the neck. It's so clear, but I never "saw" it before.

A visual cue for giving that slightly more individual care is really useful, as it relieves the strain on my poor old memory trying to remember things as an unconnected list.

So thanks, everyone for all the help and ideas.

Now I know where to come to get the real deal expertise heh heh

Give them a try you won't be sorry . I put a couple of pictures on the gallery. Gin

The bud stalling - That's been a chronic problem for me. I want to make a distinction between more light and the combination of light and heat working together. Chicago is having a cool summer with only a handful of "summer temp" days. If you have excellent light but not heat (indoors or outdoors) you will have bud stall. It is not a missing nutrient. Its light or heat. Probably both

More light usually means more heat. However, if you run a/c or are experiencing cool summers the heat is absent. The Bellina's require a combination of both. Plants will hold their buds until they get what they want. Bellina's can be rebloomed from the same florescences easily. One of mine has 3 spikes and was stalled until I dialed up the light and heat. Then they popped. These are not the kind of phals that get the spikes cut.

I am not in agreement with high humidity. Theoretically all orchids require high humidity. Its helpful to have it but its the 1 variable that can be cut out of the equation without a dramatic set back. Light and heat is key. Getting the water right on the Bellina too. They have high rot potential as mentioned by virtue of their structure.

violacea bellina are pretty much the same thing. Arthur could tell you if there is a big difference.My tag says both. If they are different, it's not very noticeable. I think their name may be P. Bellina Violacea.

If you can grow a Princess K and not rot it you can grow a bellina! The Princess K. is more forgiving by virtue of it being a hybrid. But not by much.

Ginge your variations are gorgeous! I want that Alba!!!!

Clara
reformed " phal hater" ;-)

I attest to the fact that humidity is not a key factor. I grow in the deserts of Nevada, and I am lucky if my humidity gets to 50% at night; it hovers around 35% during the day, sometimes lower. I have never had a problem with my phals, including my bellina hybrid (a photo of which is now posted in the gallery).

jeanne

I got mine three years ago as a tiny seedling from Oak Hill. I was surprised this year to get two flowers spikes from it, the first bud just a week or two from opening.

I've never given this plant any special treatment. It is grown with the other Phals in the same conditions. In the Fall that means temps down to 58 and highs in the mid-80s. In the Spring/Summer, my temp range is 64-83. I tend to push the light on all my Phals, so that's really not an issue with me.

I think they're fairly easy..especially if you are familiar with phals in general.

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Be careful with blanket statements like what you said about all orchids, Clara. Not all orchids require high humidity, desert dwellers a very prominent example. The high humidity is usually a requirement for epiphitic cloud forest orchids (pleurothallid alliance, most notably). Others, such as brassavola nodosa and other more succulent tropical orchids that like to dry out, appreciate it but their cultural plasticity doesn't require high humidity to survive and thrive. And temperate terrestrials? Well, i can't really say cause i've never grown them, but i'd suspect that they don't really need it that much since all the water they need they can get out of the soil.

Lets take a look at bellina. Leaves are much thinner than your usual phal, meaning its not capable of storing nearly as much water. How is it going to sustain itself with those thinner leaves with almost no cuticle? Most certainly the only way to compensate for this is either lots of watering (as with peace lilies, but bellina doesn't like this), or higher humidity. I won't argue with success, which I know a lot of windowsill growers do have with htis, and i've admitted that my own personal success has been lackluster (which i personally blame on insufficient humidity during the winter). But as a trained horitculturist, one of the most important things I've learned is to identify key attributes of a plant that clues in to its cultural requirements. Based on what I've experienced and what i see in the plant, I think theres a good reason every culture sheet and expert says bellina and violacea need higher humidity. If you're succeeding with it, something about your culture is compensating for it. Most likely cooler temps something that otherwise slows down the plants metabolism and therefore need for more water. Case in point: when people are able to grow any number of pleurothallids on their windowsill. My grandmother has a masdevallia triangularis happily growing away on her windowsill...this flying in the face of everything everyone says about masdies needing cooler than room temps and high humidity.

My 2 cents :)

My plant looks like Clints except for the cold burn patch on an old leaf. This occurred when the plant got cold and wet several years ago. I went OS and agisted the plant out.

Cannot say that my plant is at the pinnacle of culture because i think they are more or less ever blooming in ideal conditions.

Main requirements are warmth and high light. We are having the coldest morning of the year so far and outside it is 4C. Even inside the house it is colder than normal and where the plant is sitting the readings are 16.6C and humidity is 51%. Normally early morning winter readings there are about 18C.
(There is on top a heated tropical fish tank)
The sun will come up soon and the plant will get about five hours of sun filtered by a match stick blind.

The plant is potted in a spag, diatomite, coconut chunk mixture and the pot is sitting on top of a cut off coke bottle with a small reservior of water at the base, There is a half inch gap between the water and the base of the pot.

No spraying and the plant is watered once a week in winter. i agree with some of the other posters in that high household humidity is not necessary.

Of course, this is a make do situation. The orchid would do much better is a purpose set-up glasshouse just for Phals.

A rewarding orchid that i love for the beautiful flowers and perfume.

Terpguy, i agree with you, i am growing this orchid in less than ideal conditions. In particular it is not getting near the daily recommended daily maximum temperatures in winter. but, perhaps the hours of direct sunlight are making up a bit for that.

Also, perhaps those low daily maximums are the reason for getting away with lower than recommended humidity.

And, all newbies please note that humidity reading on top of a heated 600 Litre fish tank and just call your humidity tray a drip tray because that is the sum total of its function.

Terpguy I did not edit that to "Most". My bad. However, I grow Dracs and Masde's and cannot agree that humidity is the magic key to an ailing or stalled plant. That is a light/temp issue.. Water balance is dependent on light heat and air movement. That's how someone in arrid conditions can grow a Bellina or a Masde successfully. They have balanced light temp air and have good watering habits

IMO, Humidity serves to slow the wet/dry cycle down. Gives the grower a break from frequent watering. I have high humidity indoors and I also grow outdoors where humidity has been low. If the light heat and water and balanced properly, humidity is irrelovant.

When it comes down to it, comparing plants in situ to house grown plants are like comparing apples to oranges. We are taking something from the great outdoors and shoving it in a pot. That's not natural either. Our elevation may not be correct either. But they grow and thrive

Arthur 100% on the humidity tray. Its a dust bin item

Clara

Wow, we have quite a debate going on here! :)

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, Ms Clara. All my professional and academic training, plus personal experience, has taught me that humidity is more than just a tool for growers to use. There are plants out there that require being bathed in humidity in order to survive. In the most extreme-though wholly applicable-take aquatic plants. They have no cuticle at all, and if removed from the water will dry out because they can't retain enough water. Same with poison dart frogs. Can't keep those in 45% humidity if you expect them to survive.

Got a challenge for you: take your pleurothallids out of their orchidarium, place them in a situation with same light and temps but 45% humidity. Would you be willing to take that challenge? Something tells me you'd be rather reluctant to try without the humdity. At best, they would survive but not not bloom. I'm sure in your experience with this alliance youv'e learned that in lower humidity masdies and dracs often tend to blast their buds?

[back to bellina]
I just have a hard time dismissing the necessity of humidity in terms of survival, at least for a certain segment of plants. Whether it pertains to this particular plant, well I can't say for sure since i have yet to have one thrive. However, based on the plants morphology, I'd be VERY leary of dismissing the importance for this plant.

Clara, thanks for the confirmation on the need for warmer temps for buds to form. My bellina is outside as of this evening. I set the pot into a large octagonal wooden basket and hung it on a tree branch in the back yard where it will get morning sun and all the heat it can handle. We'll see what happens.

And here's my two cents on the humidity debate with terpguy: You're both right. That's because the specific ideal humidity is variable in relation to other environmental conditions such as temperature, light, air movement, and moisture content in the medium. It also depends on the growing situation. Bellinas in the wild and those mounted in cultivation need a much higher relative humidy than those in pots.

Debates are what this forum is all about. The members here have a great deal of respect for one another so it is possible to get into some very learning rich discussions.

I'd gladly take your pleuro challenge but I don't own an orchidarium...

Yes, they are outside for the summer. I am happy with the amount of new growth. Species, not hybrids. RH outdoors has been averaging 45-50%. However my point was temps. I am taking advantage of the 55º nights and the 70's day. Diurnal range over humidity this summer.

I also think that it is a myth about bud blast and humidity. The Masde Aquarius I put in the gallery not so long ago bloomed last time without blast with or without high RH. Open window, not even great light. It will protest if the air movement is bad or the indoor air quality is bad. Humidity may add to colour and possibly bloom quantity but that's only my theory based on experience. I don't raise frogs and the tropicals you mention so I can't relate to the example.

The bellinas and bellina hybrids too, outside and blooming. They were stalled inside with 70-80% RH. Heat was the missing factor....

My challenge to you, if you so choose,,,, take your bellina and put it outside, I bet it would thrive :-))

Anglo you make a good point. Please watch the leaf temp on your Bellina, then watch it do it's thing!

Clara

LOL I think we are both at a disadvantage regarding our knowledge of each others growing habits. I didn't realize you don't have an orchidarium (and I certainly bow to you if you are growing any type of pleurothallid outside an orchidarium), and what you don't know about me is i'm one of those rare people who put their phals outside :) For as long as I've been growing everything has always been going outside for the summer, including bellina, where she is now. Inside she sits in a large, warm WSW bay window in S/H. For me the warmth and light have never worked. Whenever the humidity came up during the summer, it thrived. Shes "thriving" right now, putting out new roots and a new leaf. Whenever it went down, it suffered. Thats been my experience. :)

My bellina is blooming now, and it is in sphag in a clay pot, It's growing in an east window, and although at times, I thought the light was too bright, it is thriving.

Although the humidity can get low at times (especially in the winter, it will be in the teens quite often), it doesn't seem to mind, and the temps are generally 85 F days in the summer, with a difference of 10-20 F.

One thing I've learned from trial and error, is that bellina can be kept drier than I thought. I mist the small amount of aerial roots daily and a good watering/fertilizing weekly (with another lighter watering midweek).

This works for my bellina. I say, go out and get one-you really want one, and you are very good with your other Phals, so you need the "Phal Queen" in all her glory-a beautiful plant even when out of flower, and the fragrance of the blooms is like a complex perfume-divine.

Carol

P.S. I meant a difference of 10-20F at night!

Carol

Thanks to jeanne and Ginge for the pictures over on the orchid gallery. Those saturated Orchidview ones are wonderful.

After seeing that gorgeous plant of Clint's with two spikes that started off as a small thing from Oak Hill, I'm sold. Clint's whole plant is just beautiful.

Well, this was a terrific thread, lots of information, lots of people growing it and certifying it does have a beautiful fragrance.

Going to take the plunge. Thanks to all you enablers :D

Terpguy
Yes I do think we have a misunderstanding of our environments. :-)

If she thrives outside in z7 I am still not convinced that humidity has 1 bit to do with it. Light and heat. I have a wsw window and lights with 70-80% RH and it did not pop the buds on my bellina or the bellina hybrids. (note the Boitris marks and burn streaks, I don't mist)

However I am up for this challenge:

I have had a stalled Princess Kaiulani, bellina hybrid. 3 months like this. Photo below.

Holding those buds sooo tight in a wsw window, 3 cfls and tubes high RH, no heat above 80ºF usually low-mid 70's. I put her out this morning and took a pic. Lets see how fast she pops...or fries, blasts or whatever...

Up for it?

Clara
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1 rain day, the rest dry and clear... 4 days after putting this stalled plant outside in decent light and heat.... beginning to Pop!

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Clara

Wow, Clarita. Four days! That is really something. I'm impressed. More than enough reason to put the heat lovers outside.

I have noticed that a venosa hybrid (50% venosa), which is said to like cooler, puts out keiki after keiki this time of year. It spiked last fall. Growing like crazy, but ever "spike" nub turns into a keiki. Interesting to see how many keikis it can manage this summer. Three so far.

Interesting Clara - my Princess K had it's first flower open yesterday too. My other one (younger) is still several days from opening. No significant aroma yet but I can anticipate.

Brooke

They say they are fragrant but I have several and cannot detect a thing. I've had another plant in bloom for about 6 weeks, nothing.

The flower (above) is wide open as of this afternoon.:-), the others are swelling. Its a simple illustration of proper light and heat, sans humidity. That plant has been in stall for months. Also an illustration of choosing bloom time.

The kei kei issue, you may be growing it too cool, dial up the heat and see if it puts out flowers instead. Never had a kei kei.
Clara

Clarita, no way the keikei production is not enough heat. St Louis summers are plenty hot enough for anyone. They have been out there in 95F days, with nights of about 70F, where the temperature at plant table level reaches 113 or so by 10AM. Trust me, it's hottttt.

I believe the failure of the venosa hybrid to produce flower spikes and producing keikeis instead is not enough *coolth*. We'll see if I'm right this fall. This Vianosa, from Hausermann, has been a monster since I got it last summer in a 2' pot. I'll bet it will spike when the cool comes on in fall.

About the fragrances of Princess K. I have had a few plants, a small Sharry Baby was one, and a couple of other oncids as well that weren't fragrant when they first bloomed on young plants that I got. But the second blooming was quite fragrant, and it wafted. So it could be a maturity thing. I hope so. I'm tired of trying for fragrances that aren't there.

Keikeis come from incorrect light-heat. You have a kink somewhere in that pipeline. The plant is telling you the conditions are such that it feels threatened enough to want to attempt to pass its genetics on.
Mike

Right on with the photo illustration Clarita

I've had my Bellina for a couple of years now. I grow in on the bottom tray of my maui orchidarium. It's been blooming continuously for over a year now, on 2 spikes! It gets about 80-90 during the day and 70-80 during the night. Humidity averages 70% and I water about once every 7-10 days. I fertilize less than it seems most people do. It has the most delightful fragrance. I'd post a picture but i'm not sure how to on this site. One spike is on it's tenth bloom and the other is on it's third.

It just "popped" yesterday...no scent yet..

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