Clara, I just use a balanced formula Dyna-Grow Grow (I think its 7-7-7 or 14-14-14) in a 1/4 dilution about 3 out of 4 waterings. All the time.

I found it just too much trouble to parse it -- this fert for you, that for thee. My brain rebels at the load. So they all get the same thing. I did use the hi-P on tropicals several years ago, but again, I just used the same thing all the time.

I did try hi-P on a few orchids in my early days, and didn't notice any result (not that I would have been able to tell). But just switched to balanced to make life easier.

I'm sure practices will be all over the place on this one.

I don't switch either. I'm like mehitabel - too much remembering for my remaining brain cell so I take the easy way out.

The brain cell is so overworked, today I am placing notes on some of my Catts. to remind me when to cut back on the watering with a note when to start increasing. Too much, too many, too varied - lots of notes to myself. Eventually you young whippersnappers will get there too.

Brooke

If I were a commercial grower with large benches of plants all on the same growth and blooming cycle, then I might consider altering the fert. I only use a balanced fertilizer all year round.

I don't bother either. I just rotate 2 - 3 brands all year long.

Well...maybe i'm the freak but it doesn't seem that hard to remember. Change fert. in the early Fall to get plants ready for a dry season in December/January. At least in this hemisphere. I also usually add epsom salt when I switch, both in the Spring and the Fall. When I run low on the "Fall" fert. water, I'll use none or go back to a little bit of balanced. The disclaimer is that almost all of my plants are types that desire a drier winter rest and can be prepared for the resting season by the change in fert.
-MB

I'm as bad about fertilizing as I am about watering. I start out 'gun-ho' in Spring with a high N, when everyone starts growing, then switch to balanced all summer. I don't think I've fertilized since August. If I fertilize now, I will use MSU balanced. Den/phals are all spiking, as are most Phals. I do not fertilize when any spike is developing buds. Those plants will not get fertilizer until they are finished.

It was chilly today, low 60's. This entire week is 60's daytime, low 40's - 30's nights. I spent the afternoon moving a ton of plants into my unheated sunroom. Left the nobiles and intergens out. Everyone got a good dose of Bayers, and from now on, I will now be chasing the weather. In & out, depending on Mother Nature. I hate this time of year.

The time is now to stop using high nitrogen fertilizer. It will just promote late growth which won't have time to harden off when the weather becomes chillier.
5-10-10 or so called "flower booster" type fertilizers are used. I also add Epsom Salt too to help the plant harden off. In the spring and summer I prefer to fertilize my cattleyas with fish emulsion. Smells, but I get good results.

I guess I've never quite understood this theory unless you have a collection of plants with a very specific grow and bloom schedule (like what Mr B stated) - grow spring and summer - bloom fall and winter. I don't know about anyone else, but my collection is kind of a mixed bag. Some bloom as stated, some bloom in the summer, some bloom whenever they feel like it, some bloom almost constantly.

I thought we established a long time ago that the vast majority of plants will probably grow year round if given enough light and heat. Of course there are exceptions as stated above, but I doubt if many of us have collections that specific. Maybe I'm wrong there.

Do plants in the wild get a different diet at different times of the year?

Actually when I think about Kevin's question, plants do get a different diet at different times of the year.

The non-scientific explaination:

I came from the sub-tropics. There is barely any rain during the winter months. When the rainy season begins, plants in situ get a hardy "feed'. Matter has decayed over the winter, etc. Nice fat nutrients suddenly become available. I remember having to clean debris off my car when the first soaking rain came.

This changes as the rainy season progresses. Different sub-tropicals start to secrete different "gunk"; everything gets revived and starts pumping out whatever they have. The "debris/gunk" changes. A terrestrial or epiphytic orchid will have a different diet when these events happen.

Conversley

Think about a "paph type" that is native to MN. When the snow melts, the paphs are getting a blast of locked nutrients from the melt. Then the summer rains come. Different nutrient values.

Surely, ferts have been suggested at different times of year to emulate situ, just like bark has been made to mimic substrate? We all try like the devil to give temp flucuations, humidity air, why not feed the orchid the best we can as well?

I am another "Freak". I use high N and High P Ferts. I used to use just a basic balanced. I have noticed a difference since I have switched to the 2. I have 2 mixes. High -N + Superthrive and High-P. Every 3 months I will add some epsom, usually with the High P. Then once in summer.

I just never know since I moved and started to grow indoors, when to switch. Aug, Sept, Oct? In Fl I could get away with using any fertiliser b/c they were outdoors. It takes time to notice a difference, just like everything else with orchids, slow. If I have a spiking plant in s/h I do use a weak, high P. 1/8 tsp or less. or the Twinkle who will not bloom for the next several months. Is that bad?

An aside, I did call OHG since so many of us had the same issue w/ Twinkle. Greg says that they prematurely spike. Be patient. They won't bloom until Nov- Dec.

The hospital re-habs/ rescues don't get a fert elimination or water reduction in winter but an adjustment according to the light I have to offer.

Jane, I watch the weather too. But I don't have the stamina you do. They are either in or out. Took some in already (angs, phals, re-habs) Its going to warm up next week. We have had 3 nights of 45.

Left outdoors:
Dens, Tenuifolia, Intergens, BLC, Lycaste's, Masde's, Oncids, Sedirea Japonica, all vandacious (neos, asco's), Helcia, polyrhizza. Have palms and assorted tropical trees, all out. Carnivours are all in and working hard! The outdoor plants are dry until the weather warms up tomorrow. No one has shown any signs of stress. Dry seems to be the trick when the weather cools off for a few days. Makes sense when you look at what happens to water in winter.

Tommorrow will go back to 80 and Tuesday/Wednesday it will be almost 90! Looks like I can leave them out until the end of the month. 70's day 50's night. Then they all come in. I would croak it trucking orchids from the roof in and out. De-bugging, inspecting etc. It's a 1 time thing for me.
On the bus or off!

This post has raised some issues that I have posted seperately (see link below). When I was lost as an indoor grower, I had no idea what everyone was talking about with respect to winter rest, no fertiliser? Huh? I let mother nature handle winter for me as a balcony grower in Fl. Never really thought too deeply about things. Thankfully I had you kind folks to hold my hand when my collection moved indoors and North!

Clara
(Polartic mini-skirt until tomorrow, then break out the tanning lotion!) What weather!

Clara

I'm not challenging your argument, but I guess I still have questions.

How do you know the chemical makeup of the gunk changes at various times of the year? In other words how do you know if it's providing more nitrogen or phosphorus, etc. from month to month? I would assume it's rather balanced, but since there's more rain at certain times of the year more nutrients are available at certain times of the year.

Not knowing anything about the tropics or subtropics, don't some areas have rather consistent moisture year round? I can't imagine Masdies or Pleuros for instance have a severe dry season in their natural habitat?

Sure I have some plants that conveniently rest during the winter - many of my Dends, but not all of them do that.

I still think it's misleading to say everything has to get switched over to a different fertilizer just because our seasons are changing. By saying that you're assuming all orchids are on our seasonal schedule.

OK, I'm waiting for paint to dry so I can do another coat. Time to do another coat now. Maybe I'll think of some more questions.

K

Don't want to be argumentative, but I think a person can take the "in nature things go like this" argument too far. "In nature" the life expectancy of a cat is maybe three years; nurtured and protected by humans, it can be 19-20 years. Same is true of dogs, and humans as well. Good medical and dental care add years to life expectancy of a healthy person, to say nothing of the boon it is to people who are ill.

And also, so many orchids are hybrids. Don't see how you can know just which genes from what species a hybrid got.

But to your question about when to switch -- if I were a switcher, I would switch in August-Sept, ie now. A lot of season-sensitive plants have already begun to respond to the change: my oncids almost all have spikes well advanced, so they "know" the days are getting shorter.

With orchids as with most things, you constantly have to make decisions under uncertainty.

Kevin. Ok when your back from the paint... LOL. Whatcha painting? I didn't go to church this morning. "Carla" went to church and I wrote ;-) Not a challenge but rather fuel for debate to sort it out! That's the forum,. Interesting to learn & better than an oncid. stake in the eye on a Sunday afternoon :-)

"I would assume it's rather balanced, but since there's more rain at certain times of the year more nutrients are available at certain times of the year."
That's my POV and question for the forum. I think they change due to those very factors at certian times a year.

I am not a Geologist. Studied Pharmacology on a graduate level. Still way out of my range to know the molecular specifics (or to really care to know). When I can't get the gunk off in the car wash at certain times of the year something has changed. Maybe a tree sapping, maybe salt/minerals, maybe both or something else?? But there is some kind of change. Does it contribute to nutrient balance? I imagine it could. Just like you can smell Fall coming, people who live is sub-tropical climates are attuned to other changes. (Like car gunk and mouthfuls of salty air)

The earth is a big chemistry lab. It goes through seasonal cycles. For orchids we are talking micro nutrients. There has to be some reason why High P and High N Ferts are offered and recommended at certain times in a cycle? I suppose that's my really question besides when is why?

Not sure about what you mean about ambient moisture? I don't think that RH has a whole lot to do with nutrition. (Did I catch your meaning right?) There are months in Miami where there is low RH, Jan, Feb March. Feels normal, like Chicago in Spring, believe it or not. There is only some much folar feeding that can go on. After that, the plant just starts to rot, just like they do in our homes when we mist at them too much or it rains too much. Saw that a lot in Florida. Scrappy wild 'chids. Besides wild-life munching away, there is rot in situ. They ALL need "re-pots", Physan and Safer's :-).

If you live on the coast, the car gets a fine coat of ocean salt. Is it something orchids need? Probably not. They just get a little crusty and need a hosing if the air becomes still.

I was careful not to say "everything". But the earth is connected. The currents of the oceans, those earth cycles, play a large role in weather. Weather and seasonality may have a role in dictating nutrients. When snow is released into the water supply there is certainly nutrients that have been locked away and are now available? Hurricanes and Monsoons screw up the drinking water. The water supply in my city gets an adjustment after a particularly bad winter. Global issues affect the entire planet, not just the source...Right? Is that your area Kev? If so, SOS please

Pleuro's nutritional needs are not as demanding as other species. Their location could be dictating that? Its very stable, compared to a FL Encyclia. But it's still is not the misty sauna that you might imagine at certain times of the year just like Miami isn't, but that is relative when you live in a place like that. 30 or 40%% humdity is low RH. Medellin Colombia's weather can be similar to Ca. It is "La ciudad de las flores"!

General fert.is fine. I've used it. I don't have it right now. When I go to the sink, I have no idea what to "cook" for them. This is one of those times. I am like everyone else. I have limts with the orchids and what I am going to concoct. I don't cook individually for 200 people. But I will give them something they like from the menu, en masse. If I didn't have the orchid hospital, there would be 1 kind of fert. being used at certain times of year. But then again, I use high N on them because they need vegitative growth and the others don't. My goal is not to flower them yet. See where I am getting confused? I would like flowers for the holidays from the healthy ones. Would be nice to understand when, who and why :-)

Let me know what your 'second coat" thoughts

Clara
Should have gone to Church with "Carla"

OK, I'll try to be brief.

I think the idea of switching fertilizers at various times of the year is a human idea to hopefully improve on nature. I still doubt if the nutrients a plant gets in nature vary in chemical makeup from month to month all that much. The plants get more water from rainfall depending on the season and therefore more nutrients because the rain washes more decayed vegetation, poop, dust etc. over the plants roots, but I still doubt if the chemical makeup of that stuff changes much from season to season.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the bird poop contains more of mineral x during the month of September because the birds have been eating a berry that only ripens during that month. I know some people like to get into all this detailed stuff about growing orchids. I don't. It makes my mind go numb.

For a newbie reading this thread, they might get the idea that all orchids have to be switched over to a different fertilizer in the fall in order to get flowers. As I stated above, that's too broad of a statement. If that happens to be the time that plant is spiking, fine. Maybe you'll see a few more flowers or a thicker spike. The plant is still going to flower whether you change the fertilizer or not.

That wasn't brief. Sorry.

I'm painting and re-glazing 2nd story windows. Doesn't that sound fun? It isn't. Would you believe about a year ago I couldn't go up a ladder without almost passing out from fear? Now I'm 20 feet up there just having a great, old time swatting wasps with one hand while working away with the other.

K

Kevin, just to add to what you are saying, in my large mixed up collection many orchids happily flower in summer when i use a higher Nitrogen number fertilizer.

I cannot give an exact day in the year when i stop applying Miracle-Gro all purpose plant food to my orchids, sometime in Autumn is the best that i can say.

I suppose in Native there is less food available in winter because the bacteria and fungi do not break down stuff as readily as they do in summer. Yes, most "orchid food" is provided by bacteria and fungi. Those organisms that most orchid growers dread.

Having been a dirt grower for most of my life, Clara is absolutely correct. Different seasons, different nutrients available. Deciduous trees dump their leaves. Bacteria necessary to break down the vegetation slows or stops during very cold weather. This breakdown of vegetation takes Nitrogen from the soil, thus depriving the plants of Nitrogen. Moisture is needed to complete the breakdown process. With Spring rains and warmth, activity speeds up and the breakdown is almost complete. The composed material is not rich in nutrients, but rich in bacteria which helps release the nutrients in the mix. Anyone who composts near trees or shrubs, will find the plant roots under the compost. Instead of going down into the soil, the plant sends its roots up into the compost pile. I have to assume the same process takes place in deciduous forests where orchids grow. All matter requires warmth, bacteria and moisture to complete the breakdown. The tropics might have the warmth in winter, but not the moisture for a quick breakdown and release of nutrients.

For me Fall is the time to hold back on N. High P promotes root growth as (my guess) the plant searches for N.

Too technical (visit the compost forums), I hold back water on my hardcane dens when they finish flowering. I also pull them from strong light. They literally get stuck in a corner. I cut back on water and stop fertilizer for any plants which are not growing. Any plants making growths or maturing growths continue to get watered and fertilized occasionally with a high P, or balanced fertilizer. I do not want to spur growth during winter. Even with lights, I do not have enough space to light all my plants. Plants with maturing growths get a higher P.

Frankly, I think a high P, with a decent N is fine for all plants which are still growing. I only use a high N in Spring and Summer.

Intergens, Oncids, Dens and Catts which are finished flowering get no fertilizer until Spring.

Most of my plants are still maturing growths or spiking. Spikers get nothing, plants with new growths will get fertilizer (balanced or high P) until they mature.

Mind you Clara, this is on a good day. I rarely have time to fool around with this and am lucky my plants get watered enough. When I have a 'lazy' Saturday or Sunday, I mix some fertilizer. By December, I stop all fertilizer until March.

My lighting situation is not ideal and I do not find it necessary to encourage growth over winter. For my collection, this practice does not cause any loss of growth or flowers. Push growth in Spring, I do not have enough light to get flowers from late growths. I hate seeing new growths starting at this time of the year. I rarely can get these late growths to flower. If you have sufficent lighting, I guess you can hope for continued growth and flowering throughout the year.

Just follow your instincts regarding the seasons. Although, your growing experience began in the warm South, you are correct that growing plants still follows the same basic rules.

Jane

I don't change either. I use the same balanced formula year round, just cutting back in the winter when the plants are not growing rapidly.