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plant tag wrong?

Posted by vtandrea z4 VT (My Page) on
Thu, Sep 24, 09 at 20:04

OK, this finally bloomed for me but it sure doesn't look like any pictures I've seen of Onc. Heaven Scent "Sweet Baby", so obviously someone mixed up the plant tags in the garden center. Is it even an oncidium?? If anyone can ID it, I'd appreciate it. I think it's pretty cool whatever it's real name is.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: plant tag wrong?

Its an oncidium intergeneric. I'd venture to say its probably Beallara Marfitch 'Howards Dream'.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

It's defiantly not an Onc. Heaven Scent "Sweet Baby"

Here's a pic of one of mine. Sorry that it's so big.

Here is a link that might be useful: Onc. Heaven Scent


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Won't be able to know without a tag. Any name would just be a guess. I would venture to say it is NOT Howard's Dream though.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

It does look very similar to Beallara Marfitch 'Howards Dream'...


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Very similar doesn't count in the orchid name stakes! Nice orchid though. Interesting patterns on the petals and sepals.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

"but it sure doesn't look like any pictures I've seen of...

Its an oncidium intergeneric.

Won't be able to know without a tag. Any name would just be a guess.

It's defiantly not an....

It does look very similar to...."

Thank you, Arthur! "Nice orchid though. Interesting patterns on the petals and sepals."

Enjoy this plant without an ID for what it is!! It has very nicely colored and marked flowers!
It's a NOID!

It is impossible to "guess" the ID of an unidentified plant. This is another example of why it is imperative to keep the plant ID from the source.

--Stitz--


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RE: plant tag wrong?

I'll be a contrarian tonight and disagree. Before Stitz jumps from underlines and bold to italics, consider the following:

1. We aren't dealing with a white phal or a yellow oncidium. 99.9999999999% of these types of intergenerics available to the public are clones, not seedlings. So its fair to assume that this is a clone. Thus, a bit of judicious research into available clones could very well net you an ID. "Very similar to" in this instance, I posit, does indeed count!

2. Unlike the millions of white phal seedlings, I don't believe you'll even be able to find even 3 different intergenerics the look identical to this. I challenge you to find them now...I'll wait...were you able to find anything?

3. Considering this, I believe the markings are far too distinctive to dismiss off hand it as unidentifiable, right down to the yellow below the column. Compare to this ID'd marfitch from Elk Grove Orchids, keeping in mind the *faint* differences in spotting and color, assuming they are one and the same, are wholly attributable to different growing temperatures (google M'HD' and you'll find wide variation in the coloring and spotting). The one in this pic, based on the purple color and high proliferation of spotting, was grown slightly cooler.

4. You can't off hand claim every tagless plant is unidentifiable. We ID a bunch here and on another forum all the time!

ANDREA:
1. Can you post a photo that is face on to the flower?

My 2 cents. I don't lightly ascribe names to every tagless plant. However, this is one instance where I personally believe the plant IS identifiable, and I stand by the positive ID of Beallara Marfitch 'Howards Dream'. You are naturally welcome to disagree :) I'll agree with Howard though, whatever it is, its beautiful!


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Well, i've just finished recording the data from 171 Benching Cards and all i can say is what a lot of rubbish people write on those cards. One guy even owns an orchid nursery and his cards are not correct. Then there are couple of guys who grow great orchids and sell surplus plants at stalls for pocket money. They haven't a clue. More junk labels.
If you look at the link, you have to wonder about Beallara Marfitch 'Howards Dream'
I do not agree that every plant is identifiable and stand by "looks like is not good enough".

Here is a link that might be useful: Google pictures showing lots of possibles.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Don't know what these cards are that your talking about Howard, but theres nothing to wonder about. Like I said, spots and coloring on Marfitch is naturally variable, highly influenced by the temperature the plant is grown in. The variability is to be expected for this grex. When I had mine i receive it purple, but when I rebloomed it it came out really red with fewer spots.


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fwiw

FWIW, just to illustrate the variability, here's a picture of MY Marfitch when I first bought it. Cant' remember who I got it from but it was at the National capital orchid society show about 6 years ago. No longer with me, unfortunately. Compare it to Elk Grove's Marfitch. VERY different due to different environments, but they are unmistakable unto themselves.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Sorry Terpguy, i'm Arthur, not Howard.

I'm talking about the fact that labels are unreliable, that is, if a plant has a label.

Maybe it is the orchid you are talking about, maybe not. Could be Beallara Marfitch 'Something Else' in other words, a remake of the same grex that looks like the clone that was awarded AM/AOS.

Anything is possible in the world of orchids, especially so, if marketing and money are involved.

Beallara Marfitch was registered in 1983. Maybe there are other seedlings from that time still floating around or as i said in the paragraph above someone has done a remake using superior parents.

I have, down in the glasshouse 150 seedlings of orchid cross A x B, each one as it flowers will be different. My partner in crime has a similar quantity to flower. You are making a big call when you say that every orchid is identifiable.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Darn my photo isn't working :( And I apologize, I have Howards Dream on the brain!

I don't make that claim at all. I'm just feeling pretty secure that a lot of these intergenerics are more identifiable than people give them credit for, especially where distinctive ones like this are concerned. Like I said, we aren't trying to ID a white phal here. You are definitely right, anything is possible. But also like I said, the vast majority of oncidium intergenerics available to the public are clones, not seedlings. So the odds are more tilted towards an ID than not. Its just a question of how much are you williing to put into researching?

I think I'll rest my case at this point and let the jury decide :)


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Wow, fun to get so many opinions and thoughts on ID's. I'm not a purist by any stretch of the imagination and not knowing the exact parentage of my orchids isn't critical. Basically I want to know what the plant is, whether oncidium, zygopetalum, etc. Knowing the "name" is nice but when someone asks me, I often say "it's a pretty pink color" or something like that. I do think the orchid I posted looks very much like the Beallara Marfitch "Howard's Dream" that I've looked at online. Here's another view of my baby:


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RE: plant tag wrong?

Maybe try contacting the grower? Were ever you got it from should be able to tell you who that us. Until then, it's a NOID. Nothing wrong with that, I two NOIDS in my collection.


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RE: plant tag wrong?

There is such a claim to be made for pot plants though. Buying a known clone your are probably not going to run into another clonal name associating itself to the grex right?

As far as every plant identifiable, we have 1000s of seedlings and without flower I could scarcely tell these catts apart. Dedudtions can be made, does it look like it has coccinea type leaves, luteola type growths, etc. With that it does become a smaller window for identification.

However, in terms of variability, each cross of A x B is not going to represent a vast number of anomalies. While there might be color, splash, shape, size differences the overall flower should be close.

One more thing, what is up with the column? It looks mutated or something you wouldnt see on the plant everyone agrees it is.


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