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Almost time to give them a rest.

Posted by orchidnick z9Ca (orchidnick@yahoo.com) on
Wed, Nov 16, 11 at 9:46

Thanksgiving is a week away and it is time to think about beginning to limit water supply to certain groups. I separated the 'Dry Winter' Dendrobiums and placed them together for their winter rest. Many of the rest will also benefit from a decreased water supply. The Vanda types were moved directly over the Bulbos so that both of them can enjoy the almost daily deluge. All the Pleiones (praecox is the exception) lost their leaves and next week I will unearth the bulbs, place them in baggies and then they go in the veggie drawer of the fridge until Valentine.

Time moves fast during the holidays, it's not too early to get ready.

Nick


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I enjoy the "restful" orchids. It's kind of nice having to take a break from the regular routine of watering and fertilizing and everything else. My pleione went into the refrigerator earlier this week. I so enjoy the annual fall harvest of these orchids - dumping them out of their pots and finally seeing how well they grew and multiplied over the last season. Of course I make mental notes of what I may want to do differently next season. The praecox and maculata are leafless, but growing buds, so it will still be some time before I figure how much of a rest to give them - temps and water. From my understanding they still want a bit of water and not as cold a temps as the others.

Stenoglottis longifolia is still kind of a mystery to me. It finished blooming about a week ago and the current seasons growth is slowly dying back. From what I've read this is when you start drying them out.

However...

New "pups" are already appearing around the base of the mother plant. Again from what I've read - totally normal. So it would seem I can't keep it totally dry through the winter. I guess I'll give it a little water now and then until later in the winter or early spring when new growth should really start appearing.

I only have a few Dends requiring greatly reduced winter watering. Harveyanum is by far my favorite. When I first purchased it years ago, I was well aware of its reputation for being kind of difficult. But the more I read it seemed like the main difficulty was keeping it completely dry from the end of Oct to early spring. By completely dry I really mean completely dry - no water, no misting, nothing. Evidently that can be difficult for some people to do, but it greatly affects not only flowering but also the next seasons growth. I've done that from the beginning and it's been a totally no-brainer plant for me. The pbs shrivel something horrible, but for some reason my plant rarely drops any leaves. The number of flowers has steadily increased from year to year.


Kevin


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

O.K. so speaking of resting your orchids. You might remember that I got a Den. nobile hybrid. Well it's grown pretty well for my first year of torturing it. The three canes that grew on it probably could be bigger but oh well. I have had it either outside or on the porch most of the year and it is dropping some leaves but not all. I noticed that I now have little nubblies and bumps showing on some of the older canes, so what do I do now? I thought those didn't show until it was time to start watering again around Valentine's. I really never have totally stopped watering, just cut back dramatically. What do i do? That seems like it was a very short rest period,really hardly anytime at all. The nobile and the kingianum are hangin' out on the cold porch together, should I throw the aggregatum out there too? gb


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I'm the wrong person to ask about N obile and Dend agravation, as Arthur calls them. I have a nobile hybrid which does not get a dry rest and blooms nicely. Regular Nobiles don't like me. I grow (not bloom) 3 aggregatums. Last year one of them produced one inflorescence. A member in our society has a smaller plant which covers itself with flowers -- frustrating! I believe I just don't keep them dry enough. Major effort coming this year to keep them dry, one will be warm, one intermediate and one cold. We'll see what they do.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

gb, you may have a Yamamoto type nobile. He breeds them to not need the complete dry winter rest. He has a lot of info about nobilies on his web site. The ones I had of his I gave baby sips of water until after blooming, then I gradually resumed full watering and fertilizing.


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Kevin, question about Pleiones. Last year I wintered them in zip-lock bags, completely closed in the veggie drawer of the fridge and encountered no problem. Some one told me that I'm setting myself up for fungal problems and should leave a little opening.

Comment?

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Gin called it Den. aggravation. Loved it. This rest stuff is all a mystery. When the ex resident boffin left home, he left behind his collection and i remember fiddling around with one of those Indian Dendrobiums...might have been densiflorum. Needless to say it died, whereas an unwanted recent addition of same orchid flowered after being stuck in a corner of the shadehouse.

Still do not believe in the total dry rest for anything. Cooler and drier might be the go.

As for these Yamamoto dens., as i've said before this is the stuff of marketing dreams. The soft-cane gurus at the local orchid society treat them all the same whether they are varieties of the species or advanced hybrids.

When did they become Yamamoto Hybrids? Den. Yukidaruma 'King' was produced by one of the Yamamotos in the 1970's Still good, but blooms off older canes. Surely there must be some other Soft-cane hybridisers beavering away in the USA?

Pleiones? tried one of those (psst they're easy) said the enabler. Another one to orchid heaven. I'll stick to the very easy Tolumnia Hybrids.


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Arthur, I feel your pain with these frustrating Dendrobiums. Just can't keep them dry enough during the winter. High humidity, coastal fog plus my exuberant watering leads to their downfall. Pleiones on the other hand ARE easy. Right now they are all safely sequestered in the vegetable drawer of the fridge were my loving care won't kill them. Valentine Day, they come out, get repotted and usually bloom their heads off. I had about 20, one died, a couple failed to make extra bulbs but all the rest multiplied with extra bulbs and bulbils from the top. These small bulbils take 2 to 3 years to reach blooming size.

Now it's on to Cypripediums. I found this China source where I can get nose bulbs reasonably cheap ($10 to $15 each) our local sources usually charge $40 plus for them. When I get them, they will join the Pleiones in the fridge and then get treated the same way except for a special mix which I will make for them. I hear they are tougher than Pleiones, wish me luck.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

It may be a Yamamoto but I don't have a name to go w/it. It looks like an Apple blossom.This just seems a lot easier to bloom than what I've always heard them to be.I got it at our April show and after it finished blooming then it went out w/ the others for the summer. I still have it on the frontporch w/ the kingianum, just watering them only kinda when the mood strikes me.Last watering, I found those bumps along two or three of the canes.

OK this has good info even though it says commercial production. The info still all pertains to what you have to do to grow these guys. I still just feel like I haven't got a good grasp of how much water and when?gb

Here is a link that might be useful: Yamamoto hints & Culture


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Have already begun the dry period for the sole Den. jenkensii which I have mounted and outside year round. Just put it under cover when it rains. Still have not seen it flower even though it stays in direct sun which I think it gets for about 5-6 hours daily.
I have yet to depot the plants of Cypripedium californicum for imaging and for bagging for refrigeration. These are about 3 years old. Got them from Sprangle Creek Labs. Using a granitic gravel base mix with organics included, and added a bit of Nitrohumus. Cannot wait to see how the roots look!
If you have not tried native cyps and are interested start with C. kentuckiense if you are in the South or with C. parviflorum pubescens if in the North.
The below in the image I grew quite well for 3 years but did not know about vernalization then and the plants slowly went down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sprangle Creek Labs list of available cyps


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Great information. There is also an eBay seller who lists Chinese plants. Ships bulbs only. I might give them a try with a small order.

http://stores.ebay.com/alpinegarden/category1396486013-/_i.html?_fsub=1396486013&_sid=990945033&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

They have a 100% approval rating, has anyone tried them?

Nick


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RE: Time to give them a rest.

My 2 sources for Pleiones have been:

Fraser's Thimble Farm http://www.thimblefarms.com/

Asuka Orchids http://www.asukaorchids.com/index.html

Got good bulbs from both of them.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Nick, I wonder if these plants are being sent into the USA legally! There are specific laws governing the importation of orchids as well as Chinese laws governing the exportation of orchids. The link below give info on importation.
While some of the plants appear to be potted from the images shown, others are of plants in their native area of growth. I would be hesitant over the legality as if this is the question and the operation is busted and his invoice records taken then anyone who has purchased can be cited and fined and have their plants taken by government agents.
I would stick to USA vendors unless you are dealing with known and established overseas businesses that also require you to provide importation documentation.
Here is the link to the USDA APHIS that you should be aware of. You may want to contact them as the rules seem to apply to commercial growers rather than individual collectors. Contact info is at the site.
APHIS INFO

Contact info

Here is a link that might be useful: Importing Orchids


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I have an import lic and know some of the rules. Brought plants from Au which was a nightmare. Sent them my info, it cost $120 and then had to do handstands at the airport. Bought bulbs from Fraser's Thimble Farm (Canada), they did all the paper work, did not ask for my import lic, cost was $25 and the bulbs arrived with documentation, CITES and all. I will check into the China outfit and try to find out how they do it.

For the first time out, your source which sells established seedlings is probably a better bet.

Thanks, Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I have a friend who got the Cyp. bulbs from the Chinese vendor. They came in a box marked "Chinese Toys". There was no paperwork on either end.

Brooke


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Thanks, Brooke, good to know. I questioned them and they replied that phytosanitary certificate and other paperwork is included. Some one else, on a different forum said that these Chinese Cyps have a 100% mortality rate. Pretty strong statement, if even close to being true, the US plants seem a better bet.

Not a high priority for me, will pass. The bulbs from Canada came with CITES, phyto and were marked 'Plants'. They also sell Cyps but are fairly expensive. Here is what they say about US shipments:

U.S. Customers and Orders: We ship to all of the Continental U.S. All prices are in U.S. Funds for U.S. customers or if the Canadian Dollar is above parity, all prices will be in Canadian Funds. We expect to ship U.S. orders every 4 weeks in Spring and Fall this year. We may increase the frequency depending on demand. Every order to the U.S. requires a Phytosanitary Certificate, which is $17.00 and usually this is the only extra cost. However, if you order any of the plants covered under C.I.T.E.S ($7.00) (Orchids, Tree Ferns, Cyclamen, Sarracenias etc.), which control the movement of endangered species we have to get, and charge for a C.I.T.E.S certificate. The cost of this will vary depending on what is ordered. The minimum order for the U.S. is $75.00 worth of plants. For those who want to visit the nursery and pick up an order, give us your order at least a week ahead of time so we can get the necessary documents in order. All U.S. orders must have a contact phone number.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

Nick

I prefer the rigid, plastic Ziploc containers for storing Pleione because they protect the bulbs and emerging flower buds from any bumps that might occur in the fridge. They come in all sizes from really small for 1 or 2 bulbs to the larger sizes for whole handfuls of 'em. I pack mine in dry peat, close up the container and that's that until spring.

I continue to be frustrated at the scarcity of Pleione in the US. I ordered from Asuka last year and was pleased, but one was mislabeled when it bloomed. He did send me a full refund when I notified him which was nice.

A couple of weeks ago, I finally broke down and placed an order with Fraser's. I really didn't want to pay all the necessary fees for shipment to the US, but what are you going to do when no one else around has what they have? I believe I ordered 10 varieties and the total came to $193 which really isn't that bad on a per plant basis. Some of those species can be expensive if you can even find them.

Oh yes, also got a couple from Marni Turkel this past summer. Nice stuff.

Kevin


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I used the same sources only the other way around. Started off with about $200 from Fraser's then Asuka and the praecox from Marnie. The C.I.T.E.S, and Phytosanitary cost is per order so gets diluted if you order a bunch of them.

Santa Barbara Orchid Estates has a 12" shallow pot filled with 25 plus formosana. They never unpot or refrigerate them. Outside SOCAL ambient temps, kept dry, that's as far as SBOE goes and they just thrive. Makes you wonder if what we do is really necessary.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

I talked to an official at the inspection station at LAX. Different rules apply to contiguous countries, Canada and Mexico specifically. This is the reason Fraser's Thimble Farm can import plants with a Phyto, CITES but lacking an import permit from the US customer. I have a permit which I offered them but they stated that it was not necessary.

This is not true for China, the full 9 yards is necessary which is why the Pleione bulbs arrive as 'Child Toys'. I'm sure they'll bloom just the same.

Nick


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RE: Almost time to give them a rest.

My Fraser's order arrived today. Finally! It took a long time - almost a month, but I'm very pleased. Now that I know how easy it is ordering from Canada I'll certainly do it again next year and pick up rest of the Pleione they offer that I don't already have. Can't wait for spring when these bloom.

Kevin


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