Return to the Orchids Forum
| Post a Follow-Up
Phrag culture needed
| | |
Posted by granniek SC Texas (My Page) on Sun, Nov 1, 09 at 16:27
| Reading that you grow phrags sitting in a saucer of water, I decided this was for me. I have six of them in a south facing window behind a sheer curtain. Temps now that we are finally having Fall weather are from 60F nightime to 75 daytime. Five are hybrids, sixth is calurum. I use rain water, very little plant food and growth is extremely slooooow! Two of them I think are losing ground, a Cape Sunset and Belle Hogue Point. I've had them about 3 yrs on the Cape Sunset (bloomed last year, but not doing anything since then) to 1 yr on the BHP.
One thing I've not been doing is flushing the plants with additional water. And now I wonder if this is my problem. I'm also wondering if I should be feeding them more. I'm only giving them the dilute 1/4 t/gal of 10/10/10 once a month. TIA for any suggestions. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
I grow several phrags. I am opposed to sitting them in saucers of water or using hydroponics techniques in general because success with this methodology depends on the amount of time to tend to them.
Phrags really appreciate lots of water especially now as it is their spring and growing season. So you need a mix that drains really well. If you water every day then use a small grade of bark or if you can find it osmunda root. Also use mesh, such as used for water plants, or net pots.
If you use net pots and are concerned about maintaining humidity within the media then find some whole fiber sphagnum moss-break it up and mix together with the bark mix. Use distilled or r/o water only. Water quality is essential. For fertilizing I would add osmocote (the multi purpose with 15% Nitrogen looks ok.). Keep in mind that as you water the fetliuzer will be released and in most case will be washed out with heavy watering so water lightly during the week and once heavy each week to leach out the fertilizer residues.
You need to check the footcandles the plants are under and the humdity in the room they are in. For example under my conditions at 4PM with the greenhouse being shaded the surface foot candle reading is 1100 ft candles on the surface of the greenhouse and 25 ft candles on the surface of the orchid leaves. It will definitely be much higher at noon prob. up to 600-800 or more on the surface of the leaves. Humidity is vital and should range from 60% at midday to 80%+ at night. You may want to consider one of those portable plastic sheeted indoor greenhouse carts with supplemental lighting.
For your situation I would check the soil mix to see how it looks. If too mushy then change it. Also consider getting a spray bottle that you can mist the air around your plants. If you are serious then check out indoor greenhouses and then build one that will fit your needs. Not all that hard either! |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Hi Terrestrialman. I'm confused...you say 'this is their spring, their growing season' and you're in zone 9 US. Do they mostly grow in Fall/Winter seasons? If so, that's one bit of info I've not read before. I do have a small GH. I've just always kept my paphs & phrags indoors, mainly because the GH gets too hot during the summer even with the swamp cooler. So, I could put them out there for the winter season. Low temps will drop into the high 40s on occasion, just too expensive to run more heat. Will that stall their growth? I guess I could keep the few plants in a large basket and bring them in if I know the temps will drop too much. As far as mushy growing medium, that's not an issue. I grow them in the clay pellets/sponge rock/charcoal. HOw much of the osmocote do you use for a 5" pot? I killed a couple cyms by using too much (or so one of our OS people told me.) and now I'm reticent to use it. |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| I also grow quite a few phrags and he has confused me too :>) I grow mine in catt light and find the best growth comes when the foliage is medium to light green. I've got a couple left in s/h with most now in a seedling bark/perlite/charcoal mix. Most of them sit in a saucer of water with a couple preferring heavy watering instead of constant moisture. I can't distinguish any particular season for them to grow and bloom. They bloom when the growths are mature and when the spike is almost done blooming, they make new growths. The greenhouse temps are never lower than 60. They are light feeders and if given too much fertilizer the tips of the leaves will start browning. They get flushed once a week. They all get a sprinkle of dolomitic lime on top of the pot a couple times of year. I looked up the pedigree of the two you mentioned and the Belle Hogue Point has bessae and caudatum in the pedigree and I find that some, not all, bessae hate wet feet and the caudatum REALLY hates wet feet. The Cape Sunset has bessae in it with schlimii. I grow schlimii in a saucer of water. It can be your guess if your particular plants with bessae are the don't like wet feet plants. If they were my plants, I would unpot and see how many roots with active growing tips I had and go from there. Brooke |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Thx Brooke. I unpotted those two. Very few good roots. Do you grow your plants in plastic or clay? I do like using clay pots, but I assume these plants will still want to stay quite moist perhaps plastic would be better??? Another that hasn't grown much is Red Lightening. I've not had it too long and it has grown a bit. I got it bare root, I'll take it out of the water. With 'Red' in it's name it's probably a bessae cross too. I can do the wooden skewer until I catch on with a watering schedule/pot weight. After looking again at the others, I think I'm worrying too much. I really think the Super Grande should bloom soon and there are two growths maturing. I hope they bloom at the same time. |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Shiela Red Lightening is out of Phrag. lindleyanum x warswewiczii so no bessae. I grow my phrags in plastic but clay is fine too. If you change to a bark based mix, chop up some sphag to include in the mix. I even use it with the seedling bark but forgot to mention it. The roots will still function even without the growing tips if they are firm. The people I know who grow without saucers water 2x a week. I would also remove the sheers in the window now the days are short. I hope you get it figured out because the display they make is outstanding. Brooke |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Shneila, I grow one, longifolium x something??? Used to sit in saucer of water, didn't do as well as I would have liked. Have since moved it to fine bark/charcoal/perlite mix and water heavily 2x a week, 1 with fert., 1 without to flush. Sits under a 85Watt cfl with a couple of other lower light plants. For me, it seems to have helped tremendously to move it out the saucer and into a fine bark mix. Never did try it S/H... Bob |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
Guess I need to take some images of my plants. Will do so tomorrow. I just repotted a couple of weeks ago. Their new growths are prob. about 6 inches high at this time. Also will measure foot candles at midday, if I don't forget!
I find it hard to believe that you could kill a cymbidium with osmocote! What was the formula? I believe that if you covered the entire surface of a pot of cymbidium with osmocote that it would not harm the plant. Just not possible because of its slow release characteristics and because if your mix was good then there would be a substantial loss of the fertilizer due to leaching out during watering. Your cym died from some other reason not from osmocote. But in using it the product comes with a small plastic lid that you can pour the osmocote into. fill that up and sprinkle it around the surface of the pot. It should not harm your phrags. Please keep in mind that despite the phrags rather harsh natural growing sites that the water that flows past them has fallen off of trees that are filled with bird and other animal droppings and are probably quite rich in organics to help the plants grow. Are there any plants that can suck nutrients out of the air????
My greenhouse temps are being kept at a low in the 60s though ocassional drops into the high 50s occur.
Don't mean to confuse on the light. Cattleya light is great for them but measure the foot candles during the day and record just how long the levels are high and to what low they occur and when. |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
Update on the light levels:
My foot candles stay below 500 up until sometime after 1PM and then rise up to a high about 1800 around 2PM. By 3PM they drop drastically as the greenhouse becomes shaded to 30. I need to get a more precise period the foot candles are from 1000 to 2000. This probably no more than 2 hours. Yet I have flowered P. grande, P. dominianum, P. caricinum, and P. lindleyanum. I had tried a besseae and a hirtzii but lost both because the mix was just staying too wet for them. My new mix is something I am using for a lycopodium experiment: 2 parts granitic gravel small grade, 2 parts cypress mulch, and 1 part old mix-this could be decomposed bark product or fine grade bark for the phrags or even just sand. I am also experimenting with osmunda on a small growth of P. grande and it is doing very well. Images will be forthcoming with notes on media. |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Are you sure your light meter is correct? I grow my phals in more light than you are getting at your max time. I measured the fc's when it was raining catts and dogs and still get 600fc. Brooke |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| I don't have a light meter. I just use what my fellow OS people tells me works in our climate. Brooke I am slowly exposing the plants to UNfiltered sunlight in the south window. Here in SW Tex we still have strong sunlight by noon, then for 2-3 more hours. I'll have them in full sunlight in another week. An AOS judge in our society was amazed that I was able to get a good blooming from a Paph lowii with growing indoors. This upstairs bedroom has two fully E facing windows as well as the south window. I live on 200 ac of land, so no neighbors hence no curtains...giving me a room as bright as my downstairs sunroom. |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
I am using a Hydrofarm light meter. I have no idea if it is wrong or not but it would make sense that on an overcast day that light levels would be very low. According to Wikipedia pure sunlight generates 10,000 foot candles and an overcast day is roughly around 1,000 foot candles. But light going through a window from 100 to 5000 foot candles. I have corrugated fiberglass panels and they are not clear. Brooke you must have glass?? It depends on where you are measuing in the greenhouse and the time of day as the rays of the sun change the angle of illumination.
For Phallys you should have them under 1000-1500 tops FC. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Phally care
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Shiela I'm sure you will get blooms as the new growths mature. Yes the TX sun is much stronger than mine, great in the winter but brutal in the summer. Terrestrial I have twinwall polycarb, no shade cloth during the cool months, 50% aluminet during the warm months. I also have additional shade cloth inside in two different areas, phal and masdie area. Can you borrow another light meter to check against yours? I am amazed you can grow and bloom phrags in under 500 fc's with only an hour at 1800. I had better fc's when I grew inside under lights. Thanks for the link. Brooke |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Terrestrial, you must be new to our forum. I think Brooke must surely be one of our phal 'experts'. Growing so many beautiful species. Brooke, yes our sun is brutal during the summer!!! To man/woman as well as plants...I've recently had two skin cancer surgeries. Thx again for all the input, hopefully my phrags are on their way to better growing! |
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| Brooke, Sorry but I do not know anyone who has a light meter besides myself. However, I think what the problem is is in understanding what foot candle exposure really is for the day in question. It is an accumulative impact, that is, you measure the foot candles at any particular time period and add up the readings for the total periods read to yield the amount of foot candles that the plant is exposed to during the day. For example, if the plant leaf is exposed to 300 foot candles for 8 hours that would be 2400 foot candles of exposure. To read more check out the second customer review of the meter I use at the link below. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Hydrofarm light meter-read second customer review
RE: Phrag culture needed
| | |
| I now know how you are getting such low readings. The switch must be turned to either the 500# or the 5000# and then you multiply the reading by 10 or 100 to get the correct fc's. You also only get 1/2 the direct sun available when used in full sunlight. Here is the light meter I use and I love it. It is easy to operate even for a non-mechanical person like myself :>) Brooke |
Here is a link that might be useful: light meter
Post a Follow-Up
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Orchids Forum
|
|
|
