Very impressive pcan - I never would have thought to soak the leaves to keep them hydrated. The sphag and bag method is to keep moisture loss from the leaves to a minimum but this would eliminate the bag and keep the possiblity of fungus out of the picture.

I wonder if this would work on old catt pbulbs? I must ponder this some more.

Great pic and explanation!

Brooke

Hey, pcan. Thanks for the pictures of the root clusters you get with rooting hormones. I love seeing those. They are extremely vigorous and grow like crazy. Give the plant a great start. (Sorry, purists, root hormones really do work)

What kind of root hormone do you use? Do you use the powders? I'm thinking of trying those, because I've read some of them come with a fungicide already in them.

I never thought of soaking a phal upside down every few days as a way to keep the leaves going until the roots form. Definitely a big improvement over what I've been doing (cutting the leaves in half, bagging, etc).

BTW, there was a person names Cynthia_AZ who posted here for a long while before going to another board to act as moderator

She invented a method of using a concentrated solution of liquid rooting hormone (she named it, but I forget the name), and with an eye-dropper just putting a few drops every few days right in the new-root area where roots had started to form. That way, she was able to keep the hormone level high without overwatering the tiny-root thing. She swore by this.

I've used her system with orchids going into baskets, and found it works really well to get plants like Encyclias started into a basket.

Brooke: Don't know whether you do this: I found painting the growing eyes of (many) catts *and* oncids with rooting hormone stimulates a new pb to start fairly quickly. The new pb then puts new roots out about a month after appearing. You can also use the paint-the-eyes system to get several new growth at once on a catt in different places.

Toe of Bat -- but definitely speeds the process of re-rooting up.

LOL at Toe of Bat!

No I've never tried it on any back bulbs but will ponder that too.

I have the liquid rooting hormone, stronger than what you can pick up at a big box store, that I have used to air layer trees and shrubs with and it contains a fungicide. I'm guessing here but I suspect your liquid contains it too.

Brooke

What kind is it, Brooke? Name, pleeeze. I've been looking for a hormone-with-fungicide for occasional use, and haven't been able to be sure I have one. I use liquid Hormex, can't find any mention of fungicide on it, tho.

I got a recommendation for one with fungicide but it was to a Canadian company that doesn't sell it in the US.

For painting the growing eyes on catts and oncids, I use Clonex gel. It's a thick gel-like stuff and sticks quite well. I used it once to re-root a C bowringiana whose roots had been killed by clorox (don't ask-- one of my really stupid ideas)

But please, share the name of your liquid.

I've been using the powder rooting hormone Schultz "Take Root". I just tried to peal the label back to see if it had a fungicide in it but it came apart. It doesn't say it does on the front. Sphag and bag has never worked for me, I always get mold, I'm guessing my humidity is already to high for that method. I've never tried this on catts, but when the next opportunity comes along I am going to try it. I want to try out the Clonex gel too. I love getting back bulbs and watching new plants form from what looked like a hopeless case. I have several big plants today that started from people giving me bbulbs. I like to tinker with different methods, and come up with a plan that works for me...;0)

Clonex is a powerful, unique blend of rooting hormones, vitamins, minerals and antimicrobial agents. It is 500 times stronger than most powders. ClonexÂs gel base instantly seals cut tissue and sticks to the stem throughout the rooting period, feeding and protecting the cutting. Full strength rooting hormones (3000 ppm) start the root formation, and vitamins protect the new roots. Mineral nutrients feed the young roots for accelerated growth, and antimicrobial agents protect against fungus and disease. Active ingredient Indole-3 Butyric Acid. 100 ml (3 oz).

The above is copied from Charley's Greenhouse supplies and is what I use for trees/shrubs. The only rooting hormone I can pick up locally at Lowes only has the Indole-1Butyric Acid in it. That is great for easy to start plants but this other has the stronger ingredient. There should be a complete listing of all ingredients on the label, somewhere.

Has anyone ever figured out how much inert ingredient is used in everything? I need stock in the inert ingredient maker/supplier ;>)

Brooke

Pcan, that is priceless!!!! Thanks sooo much for posting! Hopefully, I will never have to try it,but never say never!! :))

Good rescue, Pat!!!!

Pcan, thank you so much for sharing your rooting process! Your description and photo are fabulous! I'm an orchid newbie who mistakenly over-watered my lovely Phal, and now I'm trying to save it... without too much success, I might add...

I finally figured out what my Phal doesn't like about my growing conditions... it's too cold! I have moved my Phal to a mini-greenhouse, and placed it on a heat mat, under a grow light... I'm hoping this will help... if, by some chance, I discover that the roots I saved when I first re-potted it are not doing well, I'm going to give the above method a shot... it certainly looks and sounds like an excellent idea...

I use Schultz's Take Root, too... and the label mentions nothing about an anti-fungal... it lists an active ingredient, other ingredients (which it doesn't describe), and what precautions to take when using it... and how to use it... and that's about it...

Anyway... thank you, Pcan! I'm going to save your idea in my orchid journal for future reference!

Hey, Brooke. Thanks for the information on Clonex. I must have read that once, but plainly I forgot it. I'm glad it has "antimicrobials to protect against fungus and disease". :)

I do use it, so I actually had what I have been so diligently searching for. Just like Dorothy in Oz!

I had no idea it was stronger than powders, but I do know it really does work.

This is really a great thread, Pat. Thanks for sharing it.

I have four very old backbulbs from a C. Intertexta that have zero looking dormant eyes. I have them on moist sphag inside a bag with fingers crossed. I have another two backbulb division of the same plant that has popped a new growth but I could see the eye on those. I think I will paint the Cloonex on them and give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Brooke

Hi everyone, thanks for the comments and added info.

Jodik, good luck with the ailing phal . I've found that phals are a lot more tolerant of the heat than they are cold. To cold has always caused mine to just shut down altogether, add a to much water to that and they rot. My greenhouse can hit 95 or more degrees in midsummer around noon. Healthy phals never even blink. But, let it get down in around the 50's, they just look sad. BigBoxS phals can really be a challenge, but more than any other orchid I've worked with *they want to live* (if you will), and with good care can bounce back within a year from a pretty sorry state. Growing and blooming orchids is like learning to ride a bike. Aunt Flo will suggest this, Uncle Joe will suggest that, Grandma will be standing around, eyes wide, hand over mouth, just SURE of a trip to the ER. But little Tim will not learn to ride until he just gets out there and - does it. He will add to, and take away from all of the hints, clues, tips and advice and come up with his own way (and hopefully no trip to the ER ;o) ..... So consider everything you read, but know you are in for a *journey* to success, and in the end it comes down to what works for you. The bumps along the way can sometimes be hard, but the joy of blooming your first orchid is a thrill (and the HOOK) that is hard to describe. Good Luck!!
Pat.........

Good job. The plant is on its way back. Let the roots grow a bit before potting it up.

Good topic!

I have noted that indole-butyric acid products are helpful (not a cure-all) for rooting. This chemical is related to indole-acetic acid which was introduced at an earlier time.

I tried another famous plant growth hormone, gibberellic acid, on many different orchids. I have not found it to be useful on any orchids (or bromeliads, either) through the years. I know that my GA is very active--I still get terrific results on transplanting tomato seedlings--but this isn't the place to discuss that.......

--Stitz--

OK I visited my stash of good stuff where I used to grow things and actually found my bottle of root stimulator. I actually have two bottles and the Clonexx is one but this is the other. This is from the bottle - it is a Canadian product - here is the info on the label.

Made by Wilson - NuGro IP, Inc. 10 Craig St. Brantford, ON N3R7J1

Liquid Root Stimulator - Roots with Fungicide. For propogating new plants from stem and leaf cuttings.
Indolr butyric acid 0.4% 5-ehtoxy-3-tricholromethyl-1,2,4-thiadiazole 0.01%

Directions: This liquid formulation stimulates root growth on softwood and hardwood cuttings. The fungicide in Liquid Root Stimulator protects against soil borne diseases caused by Pythium.

I know this product was the only one that permitted me to get roots from air layering a Japanese maple. Today I put it on the poor old dried up recessed dormant eyes on the catt backbulbs. I put them on wrung out sphag in an open bag and hope for a miracle.

Brooke

Brooke,

It's been ~20 minutes, now. Has your miracle happened? :-)

--Stitz--

I just love this thread and Richard's prunie back bulb under the bench thread. Saved them both.

There is something so delightfully hopeful about Pat's robust little root starts and Richard's resurrecting sprout, that they make me smile every time I look at them.

Thank you Pat and Richard for sharing the stories and pictures for everyone's pleasure and edification.

Now Stitz, I don't expect miracles in 20 minutes! Goodness we know these things are fragile and finicky so I don't expect any results that soon. I do expect to see an eye or two by tomorrow morning but NOT in 20 minutes.

Miracles do happen!

Brooke

Bad news this a.m. - my Toe of Bat did not give me any green growing eyes this a.m. I disgustedly shoved it back under the bench where I will ignore it until all the backbulbs are dry brown sticks.

Brooke

Thank you, Pcan... I've read and heard so much information about orchids lately, some of it conflicting, that I'm still trying to process it all!

It took a while, but it finally clicked that the environment the Phal is in is just too cool and dry for it... time will tell whether or not I've saved it... but it should be a bit happier now that it's on a heat mat and getting a touch more humidity...

In future, I'm sticking with Epidendrums, Catts and a select few other types that can tolerate the conditions I have to offer them... Phals are beautiful, but I'd rather have healthy plants than sick ones that need to be babied! Perhaps I'll have a greenhouse someday... and then, I can keep a more varied orchid collection!

I just had to share this news here: I just found a second spike moving on the plant I call "Baldan's K 05 survivor". It's a lesson in how phals repay you for any work reviving them-- (and how tough and vigorous some of them really are)

Winter of 05, I lost every phal but two in s/h (I think the pebbles stayed too cold in my light room which then went to about 60 at night). The two had lost and lost and lost roots and leaves til they were down to *two leaves, one-inch each". No other word for that but scrap.

I finally tried sphag in tiny clay pots, and the two little scraps started new roots about March of 06. One was Baldan's Kaleidoscope, my entry for most vigorous, death-defying phal ever. That little guy got new roots (thanks to the Toe of Bat), and grew. Put out a spike about June of 06 -- serving notice that it meant to live, durnit. Just one flower, but such a delight on a short spike on the now-healthy little plant.

Dec of 06 (app 9 months from scraphood) it put up a spike, and bloomed with about 4 flowers on a 10" spike. Not your usual Baldan's spike, but a nice show, and a thrill on a former scrap.

Now it's Dec of 07, app 21 months since it was a two-inch scrap-- at least 7 leaves, span of 24" and *two* spikes moving.

That's a big reward for only a little effort. It has recovered every bit of the vigor it had and is actually bigger than when I bought it.

Two morals here: 1. as Pat said, don't give up on them.

2. A Baldan's Kaleidoscope will restore your belief in your growing ability if nothing else will. If you get a chance at one, get it. PS It's beautiful, too -- AM/AOS

What a thrill mehitabel!! I just yesterday discovered a spike a on a little NOID phal I restarted 10 months ago from no roots. It now has big fat roots that have grown out of the basket (mounted on it's side) and have that death grip on the mount. It's just a NOID, but the thrill of getting to see what the flowers are like is still just as exciting to me as that very first bloom years ago!!

It is so nice to see such a great phal post!!! I love them!!! I love them so much that I took my Christmas gift cert. up to Oak Hill yesterday and bought 2 more!! With so many amazing choices, I bought more phals!!! Trying a Bellina (we'll see how that goes):)

Sooooo, what did you buy t-bred?

Brooke

Brooke, got myself a Bellina (feel like a challenge) and a "Little Emperor Lee" It is a beauty!! Might I add,it is sooo nice to speak with such an agreable group of orchid growers :))))

t-bred. I love Little Emperor. I got the 'Lee' from Oak Hill this fall, too. Also have an 'M' from Odoms a couple of years ago -- a big one puts up a big, upright, branching, candelabra spike. Stunning! Easy to see why both got the awards.

Good picks. I absolutely *love* phals, whatever the snobs say about it. Glad to find out I'm not the only one :)

DANG YA'LL.....can I get a group hug here???....LOL.....

I LOVE PHALS!!! I LOVE PHALS!!! Angs are running a close second at the moment ...but....I LOVE PHALS!!!!

*HUG* all my phals are spiking their little hearts out and I'm once again really excited..in fact, I'm so excited that I just spent the last 30 minutes making an excel spreadsheet of all the phals I'm going to order in the spring!

Pcan - great to see these rejuvenation pictures! :)

'Nother *HUG*

Phals ~ Gotta Love em!
My baby's new leaf is over an inch long, now,
and very cute.

Sc

t-bred you will do fine with the bellina. It's just a phal with slightly higher temps required. I don't let my bellina's read the requirement sheets and just tell them the low of 60 is just fine for them.

I love phals because I can always have multiples in bloom, regardless of the season. Phals bloom for months at a time, can be grown in the home in a sunny window without elaborate set ups and really don't demand much care.

Brooke

I'm glad to hear Bellina isn't impossible! My conditions aren't ideal for this one either. Going to hide the culture sheet-from myself. :)

Since people are talking about distressed phals (as usual), and about "pcan-ing" phals, I thought I'd look up this post and bump it so it won't fade away quite so soon.

I wish someone who knew how would put this post into the FAQ.