You have to soak some pots in water, up to the rim. If you use a watering can the water runs through the potting medium and the plant desiccates. Is your plant in chunks of bark or that mossy stuff?

It is in chunks of bark. And I have been just letting the water run through. So you think it is just not getting enough water. I guess that would make sense. I was wondering how do you know when it is time to water when planted in bark. I have read that you should poke a pencil into the potting mixture to see if it is damp. But that doesnt really seem to work or I am doing it wrong. I really appreciate your help. Hopefully I wont have to ask anymore silly questions.

Not over light and underwatered, the opposite. Underlight and overwatered.

What kind of light and conditions do you have the plant?
What type of bulb is it?

You mention "regular bulb". CFL's (compact flourescent ligthts) are standardly used growing indoors. How long has the plant been in these conditions? If you are growing a phal with an african violet, you are quite underlight. Healthy indoor grown orchids require much more light than african violets. I would suspect that the plants roots are rotted from the lack of light. That's why you are seeing the droop and dark green leaves. The lighting needs to be corrected in order for the plant to turn around.

Orchids are tropical and equitorial plants. There are many excellent threads concerning light and CFL's on the orchid board. There are no other magical shortcuts to plant health but light. I would not recommend doing anything else to the plant at this time if you really want to try to save it. Understanding light is critical to healthy orchids that will bloom several times a year. Many books and the FAQ are quoting minimum light for orchids. Usually the fc's (foot candles) are predicated upon using supplimental light with a window. You may want to buy Taylor's Guide to Orchids. A used copy can be had for 2 or 3$.

I have to agree with what you have read, In my experience phals never fully recover to their former glory once they have declined. I have had dozens come to me for help. You may not want to count it as your 1st orchid. You could think of it as your "test orchid"... :-)
You seem to care enough to buy a light. That's a good thing.
Below a quick photo of a healthy phal in spike for the 3rd time in a year. I grow indoors under lights; more light that you will see suggested for a phal

Happy Holiday
Clara
{{gwi:209340}}

Hi, bigshoes. A little reading on a couple of good websites will help you figure out how to arrange the right conditions to grow your orchid and help it thrive.

Check out the Canadian Orchid Congress culture sheets at the url below. Just scroll down for the notes on phals.

Excellent culture notes are also available at bigleaforchids.com and bedfordorchids.com.

At Big Leaf, click "information" in the banner for excellent notes written specifically for the indoor windowsill grower. At Bedford, scroll down the page.

Will only take you a few minutes to check these three sites out.

And BTW, I believe you can restore a phal to one that radiates health and blooms beautifully in a year to 18 months.

Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian Orchid Congress

You might also consider the skewer method of watering. Get a shiskabob skewer, the kind they sell in the grocery store, trim it down and keep it in the medium. When you think the plant needs water, take the skewer out and touch it to your cheek, lip, or the back of your hand. If it's wet, don't water. If it's nearly dry, water. How wet or dry the skewer is before you water will depend on what type of orchid it its. Phals like to dry out slightly, but not completely, before being watered again.

Right on Miss Clara. Rock the grow. Good example of where supps and good care can get ya.
Ya ain't gonna get a phal that looks like that by readin' websites. Ya ain't gonna pull a plant out of decline by visiting websites either. Your plant is already too far gone to ever look like the photo above. Not enough light- heat was the cause. Ya may want to pick up "Taylor's Guide to Orchids", take a look at some old posts on cfl lights

Since we got an example of a healthy phal:
Miss Clara ya got more phals like that?
Where'd ya git it from?
Did it go outside for the summer?
How much light ya got in it?
Conditions?
Ever post it before?
Mike

{{gwi:209341}}

{{gwi:209342}}
Thanks Mike.
To answer your questions:

ya got more phals like that?
All my personal phals are like that. (another pictured right)
Where'd ya git it from?
Probably Home Depot or a sale rack. I can't remember but I don't pay a lot for phals. It wasn't in bloom
Did it go outside for the summer?
No. My phals do better inside
How much light ya got in it? Conditions?
~2500-3000 FC's, 4 tubes and 2 42w cfls, no window, 12-14 hour run, 80F. Window and cfl's in summer; probably more light
Ever post it before?
Yes they have been visible when I post pics of this grow area. I posted the Phal Anthura Moscow when it was in bloom previously. (Pictured right)
Probably won't post the blooms again. I don't usually repeat.

Clara

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: bigshoes213 7 Oxford, MS (bigshoes213@yahoo.com) on Mon, Dec 24, 07 at 16:15

Claritamaria can you please post a picture of your light setup. Is there a difference between regular lights or lights specifically for plants. I am new to growing under lights. I have tried looking up this info but I just get more confused about the issue. Also I have a metal adjustable shelving unit for some of my plants. I bought a plant light (one of those tube fluorscent lights)to hang but it could only be hung on nails on the wall. I wanted one that would hang over the plants that was adjustable. Do you have any recommendations? Right now I have plant light in a desk lamp that is bendable. I want to get a better setup because I know this is not enough light.

Thank you to everyone for your advice. I really appreciate.

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: jodik 5 (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 07 at 16:46

I was going to start a new thread to ask the exact same questions as Bigshoes, but this thread is very helpful... I'm in the same situation as Bigshoes, too! I have a lovely Phal that I over-watered... I repotted, using better medium, a clay pot, and I performed a bit of surgery to remove any rotting roots... I now have the Phal sitting in an east window, and I turn on the desk lamp at dusk to help give it some extra light... the light is directly over the Phal.

The leaves on my Phal are dark green and drooping, too! I was fairly certain I was giving it enough light... I am using the wooden skewer trick to check for moisture so I don't water too soon...

The information on grow lights is very confusing to me, as well... I would love to see a picture of a good light set-up... hopefully not a big expensive set-up, as affording one would be out of the question...

My Phal sits among Amaryllis and an African Violet, just like Bigshoes' Phal does... the only thing other than not enough light would be fluctuating indoor temperatures... I'm sure the Phal isn't pleased with that, but there's not much I can do to remedy the situation, except put a heat mat under it...

Would a heat mat help the Phal at all? Or would that be too much warmth? I want to do anything I can to save my Phal and make it healthy... any suggestions are welcome!

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: mehitabel z6 MO (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 07 at 17:11

Jodik, once the leaves on a phal start to droop, they are very unlikely to re-hydrate. Your phal isn't likely to look much better until it gets a new leaf, which should come in turgid and healthy.

When the roots are compromised, they can't supply the leaves with enough moisture, which is why the leaves start to droop-- they are drying up for lack of moisture.

To revive a phal with compromised roots, it's a race to get new roots before the last leaf goes. Rooting hormones help to stimulate new roots so they are more likely to arrive before the last leaf succumbs.

You can buy a small bottle of Dyna-Grow KLN for app $7.95. Liquid Hormex is also excellent. Or use Superthrive if you have that.

Soak the phal in a dilute solution of either of these, or Superthrive. I used to soak for half an hour, but thanks to a hint from SweetCicely, I now soak them overnight. I believe the overnight soak has produced better results than the shorter one. Once you have roots started, you can water occasionally with Hormex or KLN, and your plant will benefit.

Repot into a small clay pot with just a little bit of sphag in it. In my experience, roots form beautifully in sphag/clay. I think sphag has some rot inhibitng qualities as well.

Put a baggie over the plant and/or leaves while it is struggling for roots. This will provide a more humid atmosphere for the leaves and delay their dying.

For an inexpensive solution to the problem of providing more light, you can use a small CFL bulb (100 watt equivalent) in a bullet or octopus floorlight. Put the plant 8-12" away from the bulb.

I have used a seedling heat mat for phals. It provides a nice level of warmth for them. Good idea if you have one.

Below is an url for good phal-growing information for the windowsill grower.

Good luck

Here is a link that might be useful: Big Leaf -- culture notes for windowsill phal growers

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: claritamaria Indoors Z-5 Chicago (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 07 at 20:28

Controversial method suggested above. No secret I am not a supporter of it. I've tried the method above, not one improved, but rather declined further. Without proper lighting, it will kill the plant. Phals are a long, slow death. Orchids are slow plants . The plants that have been left to their own devices and properly heated and light, recover but are never fully restored if they are bad off. The less disruption the better, especially if you are new to orchids. You both have some plant experience. It's always best to leave an ill plant alone and adjust the conditions. Rooting additions in regular watering regimes are fine. There are simply no fast patches to an ailing orchid other than giving it good care and proper light. Once they decline, its almost best to start again.

As far as lights are concerned, there have been many threads on the orchid board concerning larger CFL lighting (compact flourescent) this past fall. A 42w 5000 k cfl and a south window would do nicely with for phal; really all of your plants. Air is also critical. I grow phals rather close to the bulbs. It takes some time to acclimate them up once they have been underlight for awhile.

This url below will give you some idea about cfl's. I posted a pic of 1 grow area on that thread. I grow other things there that require more light than a phal. In winter there is no reliable natural light source to speak of.

Clara

Here is a link that might be useful: CFL Discussion

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: highjack z6 KY (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 07 at 7:05

I don't know if controversial is the correct term since it is widely used successfully by some but others appear not to have the knack for it. I guess it all depends on what you are comfortable and successful doing. I love the soak method because it can totally hydrate a struggling plant with nutrients it has been missing.

The information and pics of light set ups is very helpful. If your growing area isn't adaptable to have a string of dangling CFL's, individual floor lamps or octopus lamps with CFL's focused onto the plants also does a great job to spot light your plants.

I believe the octopus lamps are available in stores like Target. I used Ikea lamps (google Ikea) in my display area in front of my ESE windows. Some of my phals would be in the display area for months and it made me feel better to supply a boost for them through the winter.

Be aware that these type lamps should not have anything bigger than a 60 watt bulb in them. The 45 watt CFL was the biggest I could use in the lamp. Hubby insisted on safety for some reason :>) The 45 watt was longer than the hood of the lamp but I made an aluminum foil extender so I didn't lose the light sideways and could spotlight it more on the plants. I used three of the lamps in a 4' long area and it did a great job in conjunction with the window and wasn't an eyesore.

The lights also raised the temps several degrees in the area and the plants continued to grow. I ran the lamps 14 hours a day. If you are comfortable with the temps in your house, the orchids should be fine. The growth may slow down in the winter, but so do I.

Brooke

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: highjack z6 KY (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 07 at 9:21

Just for you gee {{gwi:209343}} This is one of the pics during the construction phase - finished in April.

The grey building to the left is where I used to grow my plants. I still have my light tables and areas set up if you want pics of those too. I grew under fluoro and HID lights so I understand both ways of growing, including outside in the summer. Sorry don't have any pics of those.

Brooke

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: mehitabel z6 MO (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 07 at 11:15

Url to the Canadian Orchid Congress culture sheets. A few minutes of your time to read them will repay you richly in knowledge about how to improve your phal-growing.

Scroll down the page a little for phalaenopsis.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian Orchid Congress culture notes

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: jodik 5 (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 07 at 16:47

Thanks to everyone for all the information and links... I have read the Canadian Orchid Congress culture notes... very good info there!

I grow everything I can in unglazed clay, and I grow most things in a mixture of coco coir and vermiculite, with a layer of horticultural charcoal at the bottom of the pots... EXCEPT orchids, of course! For these, I use Schultz's Orchid Bark... I have tried using sphagnum moss as a medium, but it stays too wet and seems to hasten rotting in my growing conditions.

My Phal is potted in a small clay pot with a layer of charcoal at the bottom, and orchid bark as the medium. I have a wooden skewer inserted near the center of the pot, and I take it out every few days to check for moisture. I know that the surface of the medium will be drier than the medium further down inside the pot. When I water, I use a dilute solution of orchid fertilizer and water.

I have Superthrive, but haven't used it on the orchids yet... I use it every once in a while on my hippeastrums and other plants, and it seems to help them grow faster and look healthier. I use a few drops per gallon of water.

The only good natural light in my apartment is from an east window, which is stuffed with plants, mostly hippeastrums in various stages of growth... and the orchids are front and center! They also have a light over them, approx. 8 inches away from the leaves.

I know that the ambient temperature of the air in my apartment fluctuates... this is due to the type of heating unit run in winter... this cannot be helped. However, I do have a heat mat, and if this will be beneficial to the orchids, I can use it.

When I repotted the Phal, I used a rooting hormone to hasten the development of roots. Since the spike that was growing when I repotted it is still growing and healthy, as is the youngest leaf, I was rather stumped by the older, larger leaves that began drooping... I will give the Phal a soaking in Superthrive, place the heat mat under it... and hope that it all helps to keep the Phal going until it can recover and grow more roots...

I have an Epi Radicans sitting in the east window, as well... and it is doing well... I have that one planted in a small clay pot using coco coir/vermiculite as the medium. I water it with orchid fertilizer just like the Phal... if the Epi is doing good, why is the Phal unhappy? I don't believe their cultural requirements are that different...

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: orchid126 z6, NJ (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 07 at 18:48

If you have a spike on the plant DO NOT use superthrive. Superthrive tells the plant to grow roots, not flowers. It would be better to use liquid seaweed, which would hae an opposite effect and help with bloom.

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: painterart z9 SF, CA (My Page) on Thu, Dec 27, 07 at 4:39

The only thing I can add to the above thread is that the droopy leaves are probably not your fault especially if you only water once a week. It usually takes up to three months for signs of watering problems to show up. If you recently have gotten this Phal then the watering problem probably happened in the care of the orchid reseller. Many retail outlets have no idea how to care for an orchid and over water them. Big box stores and the nurseries that supply them want you to think of these plants as throw away plants. You buy them in bloom like cut flowers and throw it out when the blooms are finished. Buying like this helps their bottom line.

RE: dark green droopy leaves

• Posted by: jodik 5 (My Page) on Thu, Dec 27, 07 at 12:07

Oops! Too late... I already added a bit of Superthrive to the watering I just did... truth be told, I'd rather have healthy roots than flowers, because that will help the plant flower later anyway...

It's sad... everything is all about the money these days... even plants! Not many of the newer plants for sale are as hardy or genetically healthy as their ancestors... everything is bred for flower shape and color and size, with no thought to longevity or health... as you say, it's about buying new plants after the ones you have are done blooming, and treating everything like a disposable item! It's all about units sold, not about healthy plants! Very sad...

What a world we live in...

Well... even though I Superthrived my Phal when I shouldn't have, I'm still hopeful of it regaining it's health, and if it decides not to flower now... that's ok... a healthy plant is better than a sick one with flowers.

Thank you for all the advice... I'm off to do more research on orchids for future reference...

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{{gwi:209341}}

{{gwi:209342}}
Thanks Mike.
To answer your questions:

ya got more phals like that?
All my personal phals are like that. (another pictured right)
Where'd ya git it from?
Probably Home Depot or a sale rack. I can't remember but I don't pay a lot for phals. It wasn't in bloom
Did it go outside for the summer?
No. My phals do better inside
How much light ya got in it? Conditions?
~2500-3000 FC's, 4 tubes and 2 42w cfls, no window, 12-14 hour run, 80F. Window and cfl's in summer; probably more light
Ever post it before?
Yes they have been visible when I post pics of this grow area. I posted the Phal Anthura Moscow when it was in bloom previously. (Pictured right)
Probably won't post the blooms again. I don't usually repeat.

Clara

Claritamaria can you please post a picture of your light setup. Is there a difference between regular lights or lights specifically for plants. I am new to growing under lights. I have tried looking up this info but I just get more confused about the issue. Also I have a metal adjustable shelving unit for some of my plants. I bought a plant light (one of those tube fluorscent lights)to hang but it could only be hung on nails on the wall. I wanted one that would hang over the plants that was adjustable. Do you have any recommendations? Right now I have plant light in a desk lamp that is bendable. I want to get a better setup because I know this is not enough light.

Thank you to everyone for your advice. I really appreciate.

I was going to start a new thread to ask the exact same questions as Bigshoes, but this thread is very helpful... I'm in the same situation as Bigshoes, too! I have a lovely Phal that I over-watered... I repotted, using better medium, a clay pot, and I performed a bit of surgery to remove any rotting roots... I now have the Phal sitting in an east window, and I turn on the desk lamp at dusk to help give it some extra light... the light is directly over the Phal.

The leaves on my Phal are dark green and drooping, too! I was fairly certain I was giving it enough light... I am using the wooden skewer trick to check for moisture so I don't water too soon...

The information on grow lights is very confusing to me, as well... I would love to see a picture of a good light set-up... hopefully not a big expensive set-up, as affording one would be out of the question...

My Phal sits among Amaryllis and an African Violet, just like Bigshoes' Phal does... the only thing other than not enough light would be fluctuating indoor temperatures... I'm sure the Phal isn't pleased with that, but there's not much I can do to remedy the situation, except put a heat mat under it...

Would a heat mat help the Phal at all? Or would that be too much warmth? I want to do anything I can to save my Phal and make it healthy... any suggestions are welcome!

Jodik, once the leaves on a phal start to droop, they are very unlikely to re-hydrate. Your phal isn't likely to look much better until it gets a new leaf, which should come in turgid and healthy.

When the roots are compromised, they can't supply the leaves with enough moisture, which is why the leaves start to droop-- they are drying up for lack of moisture.

To revive a phal with compromised roots, it's a race to get new roots before the last leaf goes. Rooting hormones help to stimulate new roots so they are more likely to arrive before the last leaf succumbs.

You can buy a small bottle of Dyna-Grow KLN for app $7.95. Liquid Hormex is also excellent. Or use Superthrive if you have that.

Soak the phal in a dilute solution of either of these, or Superthrive. I used to soak for half an hour, but thanks to a hint from SweetCicely, I now soak them overnight. I believe the overnight soak has produced better results than the shorter one. Once you have roots started, you can water occasionally with Hormex or KLN, and your plant will benefit.

Repot into a small clay pot with just a little bit of sphag in it. In my experience, roots form beautifully in sphag/clay. I think sphag has some rot inhibitng qualities as well.

Put a baggie over the plant and/or leaves while it is struggling for roots. This will provide a more humid atmosphere for the leaves and delay their dying.

For an inexpensive solution to the problem of providing more light, you can use a small CFL bulb (100 watt equivalent) in a bullet or octopus floorlight. Put the plant 8-12" away from the bulb.

I have used a seedling heat mat for phals. It provides a nice level of warmth for them. Good idea if you have one.

Below is an url for good phal-growing information for the windowsill grower.

Good luck

Controversial method suggested above. No secret I am not a supporter of it. I've tried the method above, not one improved, but rather declined further. Without proper lighting, it will kill the plant. Phals are a long, slow death. Orchids are slow plants . The plants that have been left to their own devices and properly heated and light, recover but are never fully restored if they are bad off. The less disruption the better, especially if you are new to orchids. You both have some plant experience. It's always best to leave an ill plant alone and adjust the conditions. Rooting additions in regular watering regimes are fine. There are simply no fast patches to an ailing orchid other than giving it good care and proper light. Once they decline, its almost best to start again.

As far as lights are concerned, there have been many threads on the orchid board concerning larger CFL lighting (compact flourescent) this past fall. A 42w 5000 k cfl and a south window would do nicely with for phal; really all of your plants. Air is also critical. I grow phals rather close to the bulbs. It takes some time to acclimate them up once they have been underlight for awhile.

This url below will give you some idea about cfl's. I posted a pic of 1 grow area on that thread. I grow other things there that require more light than a phal. In winter there is no reliable natural light source to speak of.

Clara

I don't know if controversial is the correct term since it is widely used successfully by some but others appear not to have the knack for it. I guess it all depends on what you are comfortable and successful doing. I love the soak method because it can totally hydrate a struggling plant with nutrients it has been missing.

The information and pics of light set ups is very helpful. If your growing area isn't adaptable to have a string of dangling CFL's, individual floor lamps or octopus lamps with CFL's focused onto the plants also does a great job to spot light your plants.

I believe the octopus lamps are available in stores like Target. I used Ikea lamps (google Ikea) in my display area in front of my ESE windows. Some of my phals would be in the display area for months and it made me feel better to supply a boost for them through the winter.

Be aware that these type lamps should not have anything bigger than a 60 watt bulb in them. The 45 watt CFL was the biggest I could use in the lamp. Hubby insisted on safety for some reason :>) The 45 watt was longer than the hood of the lamp but I made an aluminum foil extender so I didn't lose the light sideways and could spotlight it more on the plants. I used three of the lamps in a 4' long area and it did a great job in conjunction with the window and wasn't an eyesore.

The lights also raised the temps several degrees in the area and the plants continued to grow. I ran the lamps 14 hours a day. If you are comfortable with the temps in your house, the orchids should be fine. The growth may slow down in the winter, but so do I.

Brooke

Just for you gee {{gwi:209343}} This is one of the pics during the construction phase - finished in April.

The grey building to the left is where I used to grow my plants. I still have my light tables and areas set up if you want pics of those too. I grew under fluoro and HID lights so I understand both ways of growing, including outside in the summer. Sorry don't have any pics of those.

Brooke

Url to the Canadian Orchid Congress culture sheets. A few minutes of your time to read them will repay you richly in knowledge about how to improve your phal-growing.

Scroll down the page a little for phalaenopsis.

Thanks to everyone for all the information and links... I have read the Canadian Orchid Congress culture notes... very good info there!

I grow everything I can in unglazed clay, and I grow most things in a mixture of coco coir and vermiculite, with a layer of horticultural charcoal at the bottom of the pots... EXCEPT orchids, of course! For these, I use Schultz's Orchid Bark... I have tried using sphagnum moss as a medium, but it stays too wet and seems to hasten rotting in my growing conditions.

My Phal is potted in a small clay pot with a layer of charcoal at the bottom, and orchid bark as the medium. I have a wooden skewer inserted near the center of the pot, and I take it out every few days to check for moisture. I know that the surface of the medium will be drier than the medium further down inside the pot. When I water, I use a dilute solution of orchid fertilizer and water.

I have Superthrive, but haven't used it on the orchids yet... I use it every once in a while on my hippeastrums and other plants, and it seems to help them grow faster and look healthier. I use a few drops per gallon of water.

The only good natural light in my apartment is from an east window, which is stuffed with plants, mostly hippeastrums in various stages of growth... and the orchids are front and center! They also have a light over them, approx. 8 inches away from the leaves.

I know that the ambient temperature of the air in my apartment fluctuates... this is due to the type of heating unit run in winter... this cannot be helped. However, I do have a heat mat, and if this will be beneficial to the orchids, I can use it.

When I repotted the Phal, I used a rooting hormone to hasten the development of roots. Since the spike that was growing when I repotted it is still growing and healthy, as is the youngest leaf, I was rather stumped by the older, larger leaves that began drooping... I will give the Phal a soaking in Superthrive, place the heat mat under it... and hope that it all helps to keep the Phal going until it can recover and grow more roots...

I have an Epi Radicans sitting in the east window, as well... and it is doing well... I have that one planted in a small clay pot using coco coir/vermiculite as the medium. I water it with orchid fertilizer just like the Phal... if the Epi is doing good, why is the Phal unhappy? I don't believe their cultural requirements are that different...

If you have a spike on the plant DO NOT use superthrive. Superthrive tells the plant to grow roots, not flowers. It would be better to use liquid seaweed, which would hae an opposite effect and help with bloom.

The only thing I can add to the above thread is that the droopy leaves are probably not your fault especially if you only water once a week. It usually takes up to three months for signs of watering problems to show up. If you recently have gotten this Phal then the watering problem probably happened in the care of the orchid reseller. Many retail outlets have no idea how to care for an orchid and over water them. Big box stores and the nurseries that supply them want you to think of these plants as throw away plants. You buy them in bloom like cut flowers and throw it out when the blooms are finished. Buying like this helps their bottom line.