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organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Posted by novice_2009 zone 6b (My Page) on Sun, May 17, 09 at 13:45
| I've got leaf miners on some of my flowers, does anyone know a good organic remedy for getting rid of them? It's just one plant, but for now. Thanks so much! |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Leaf miners are a problem with spinach and lettuce, and once they start they can ruin a crop quickly. I have never found a home remedy that works well, so I use Rotonone or Pyrethium as soon as I start to see damage. It beats losing the whole crop, and both are derived completely from organic plant substances. Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www/TheGardenGuy.org
Informative articles, interactive message boards
& ongoing garden journal! |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Rotenone is not today, and has not been for some time, an acceptable organic insect control because it is too broad spectrum and is known to kill aquatic things, even long after you apply it to your garden far from a stream, river, pond, or lake.
Once the egg hatches and the larva are at work inside the leaf there is nothing, acceptable to an organic grower, that will do anything about that larva, so you need to keep Ma Fly from laying her eggs on your plants and that means Floating Row Covers. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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As usual, kimmsr and I disagree! Unless you are planting right next to a lake or stream, the concern about "aquatic things" is not even an issue.
Rotonone always was, and still is an effective and safe organic control that can be used when all else fails. Organic farmers use it all the time!
And I can tell you first hand that it does stop leaf miners cold, even after they are inside the leaves, not that you would want to eat a leaf that already had leaf miner damage to it anyway. Sinse kimmsr doesn't use Rononone, I would guess that he does not have any first hand experience with it.
Once you have leaf minors, floating row covers are useless, and I for one choose not to always have to use them to get a spinach, chard or lettuce crop. If kimmsr would rather lose a whole crop rather that use Rotonone, that is his choice, but I prefer to enjoy my crop! Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org
Informative articles, ongoing garden journal &
interactive message boards |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Rotenone is a topical application and is not effective for the larva of the leaf miner and the Organic Materials Review Institute, OMRI, places this in a "restricted" category for very limited use by those certified organic gardeners because of very real concerns about its environmental affects.
One can disagree with me about this but the fact remains that this is not a good product for organic gardeners to use, no more than Arsenic, also a "natural" product, is a good product to use in the garden. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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As you said, it is APPROVED for limited use, which is what we are talking about here. The difference is that arsenic will kill you in small amounts, and Rotonone will not. That's like comparing a cannon to a pea shooter.
There is almost no negative enviromental effect if used properly and within reason, like everything else. If someone is losing their crop to leaf minors, that is reason enough to use this "approved" product. I don't know where you get your info from, but Rotonone does in fact kill leaf miners, even inside the leaf. I don't know if it seeps in through the thinned menbrane of the damaged leaf or what the mechanics are, nor do I care, but I do know from practical experience over many years that it is very effective and has saved many a crop for me. It stops them dead! Have you ever tried it or are you just saying what you read somewhere?? I believe in practical, commom sense organic gardening & farming, not a fanatical approach. The fact is, sometimes garlic spray, pepper wax and planting marigolds just doesn't cut it, and other, safe means are needed, other than toxic chemicals. Without them, there would be no organic farming! Again, I know first hand, having farmed for over 10 years successfully. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| None of the labels I have seen list leafminers as on of the target species, leaf hoppers, leaf rollers, but nothing about leafminers. It may kill the Fly that lays the eggs that hatch and become the leafminer, along with a large host of beneficial insects but since the labels also say it is a violation of federal law to use this product for purposes not listed on the lable, and since the leafminers are not listed, it is a violation of federal law to use it for that purpose, in addition to being an unsafe and environmentally unsound, product. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| There is an organic method of cleansing your plants and getting rid of pests above and below the ground. An added bonus is this product also strengthens the root system. It works fast. It is called Atomic Grow. It is 100% organic, non-toxic... You can read more about it by visiting the link below. I tried it on my magnolia tree which was doing very poorly, it had lost most of its leaves, and it is making a strong comeback. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Atomic Grow puts Mother Nature in Charge!
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Hmmm... redwolf registers today and hypes up this Atomic Grow product. I'm beginning to doubt his magnolia tree story. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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kimmsr,
There is a big difference between practical experience, and just reading from a label. Since you don't use Rotonone, I assume you don't have any experience with it first hand, so I am telling you from close to 50 years of practical first hand experience in the garden and on the farm, that it stops leaf miners dead in their tracks. . . I don't care what your label says!
And the label says it is to be used for it's intended purpose, which is to kill insects. It doesn't say you go to jail if you kill a bug not that is not on it's label. You're not serious about that, right? That argument makes absolutely no sense and borders on being fanatical. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Um, thanks. Is it safe to consume lettuce or spinach treated with rotonone? Exactly what is it?
Also, I have a question about row covers kimmsr. I put them on when I plant, how long do I leave them on?
I planted a packet of seeds near garden to attract beneficial insects. Wouldn't rotonone kill them as well as the bad bugs? I'm completely new to organic gardening, so any info is MUCH appreciated!!!
BTW, that atomic thing was funny. So obvious. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Rotonone WILL kill beneficials, which is why it is only used as a last resort, after trying other controls. Most organic food sold in this country is treated with Rotonone, and it's perfectly good to eat produces sprayed with it. It has a short active life of only a few days, which should be spelled out on the label. It is made from all natural, organic plant substances. Another good organic insecticide is Pyrthium, (forgive the spelling) which is made from "Mums"! Ron
The Garden Guy!
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org
New May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal & interactive message boards! |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Aside from whether rotenone is a good choice for leafminers, it should be understood that under federal law, a registered pesticide label does not necessarily have to list a particular pest to be legally used for that pest. Some people confuse the list of pests on a label as limiting legal use to just what is listed. This is not the case. The list of pests controlled are not necessarily complete, they are just the pests that efficacy trials were conducted for. From a federal legal standpoint, what matters are the crops or sites that are listed on the label. The sites or crops, such as "orchards", "turf", "vegetable gardens", "roses" etc. are what matters from a legal standpoint. Unless your state has additional laws governing pesticide labels, if the site or crop is listed, the application can be legal as long as the rest of the label instructions are followed. |
Here is a link that might be useful: label information
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Rotenone is a very broad spectrum poison that in addition is bery persistant in the environment and will kill aquatic life and is used in many places to do that. Some people will say that "I do not live near a water source so I can use Rotenone with no qualms", but it stays effective for that for a long time so someone 50 miles away from a lake, pond, river, or stream could be poisoning them even from that distance. Rotenone is also a very persistent poison that will kill more bees. Rotenone should never be the first thing you reach for when you have an insect pest problem.
I once used Rotenone and never saw that it controlled the leaf miner larva inside the leaf, there is little that will reach them inside the leaf except a wasp that will inject an egg into the leaf miner larva in the leaf. I stopped using Rotenone way back in the 1970's when we found that is not a really good pesticide for an organic gardener to use.
How long to leave Floating Row Covers on depends on what they cover and whether bees, or other pollinators, need to reach the flowers. If these pollinators are not necessary to pollinate the crop you could leave the FRC's in place about forever, while if the pollinators are needed (for saya squash) then they need to be removed when the pollinators need to get to the blossoms.
Read the link that Jayk provided and you will find it states, very clearly, that if a use is not listed on the label that product is not to be used for that. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Thanks you guys! I live near a stream, so since the leaf miners are only on my columbines, I won't use anything. I don't want to hurt anything for flowers!!! Here's what happened though: Found the tell-tale lines of miners on leaf. I removed and discarded it. Just out of pure curiosity and need to use some basil leaves from veggie garden that were yellow- I placed them around base of plant. No more miners- on THAT plant. In another bed, they attacked another columbine plant!! They seem to really go for these. This one was more severe. I found it this morning, and tried the same thing again to see if it helps again, or was just a fluke or coincidence. I'm planting spinach and summer lettuce as a fall crop, I hope they stay away from it!
Do floating row covers really help with pests? Do they allow enough sunlight and oxygen and whatnot to affect plant growth? The one I'm using says 85% light transmission. Also worried in the humid, hot days plants might cook under them. What's your experience with them? Thanks guys!! |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| kimmsr. YOU need to read the information that jayk linked us to. You are misinterpreting or simply not understanding the language. It's a common mistake. It is against Federal law to USE a product in a manner that is not labeled for such USE. For example, if the label states that the product is for trees and shrubs, then you must not use it in your veggie garden or in your home. The key word is 'USE'. However, there is no possible way that a label can list every single darned pest that the product CAN be used on. It is perfectly legal to use pesticides for pests not listed, as long as you are following the INTENT of the label. It's important to know the Federal guidelines in your own state, however. The state laws supersede (and are usually much tougher than) what the feds dictate. novice, Neem products are listed and have shown to be effective against leaf miners. Timing of the applications are important, of course, with no matter what you use. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| kimmsr - you are dead wrong . . . again! Rotonone biodegrades is a few days and does not have long term effects. Here is what Cornell University Cooprpative Extension has to say about Rotonone - "ENVIRONMENTAL FATE
Rotenone breaks down readily by exposure to sunlight. Nearly all of the toxicity of the compound is lost in five to six days of spring sunlight or two to three days of summer sunlight.
Rotenone is a highly active but short-lived photosensitizer. This means that an organism consuming the compound develops a strong sensitivity to the sun for a short time. A number of photodecomposition products are formed when bean leaves are exposed to light. It is also sensitive to heat with, much of the rotenone quickly lost at high temperatures. Rotenone is rapidly broken down in soil and in water. The half-life in both of these environments is between one and three days (15). Because of its short half-life and because it does not readily leach from soil, it is not expected to be a groundwater pollutant." It happens to be a last-resort, safe organic insecticide that does indeen kill leaf miners, even though you personally say you havn't experience it. Where ever you are getting your information on this, the effects of using fresh manure and a lot of other claims you have made is just plain wrong according to the experts. Ron
The Garden Guy!
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org
New May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal & interactive message boards! |
Of life and half life...
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I am reminded of dieldrin and aldrin. The former was used for insect control on pastures; and dieldrin residues showed up in the milk of cows that grazed thereon. Unacceptable. Enter the use of aldrin.... no aldrin residue in milk. Later discovered that aldrin degraded into dieldrin!... to the extreme chagrin to all concerned.
So who will stand up and declare that ANY chemical is absolutely safe? Let him/her speak up and be called naive. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| True ronalawn. No chemical is completely safe. My second columbine plant is nearly devoured by these leaf miners! It occured to me that the reason the other wasn't consumed is because it was covered. Shortly after I found leafminers, we had monsoon rains. That side of the porch doesnt have gutters, so to keep my plants from sitting in rain, I put a garbage bag on top of porch and stretch it across bed, and anchor it down. Water flows down it like a slide. So, without direct access to that plant, no flies to lay eggs. The other one was and is completely exposed. I guess it is doomed! Oh well. I hope when I plant my fall crops of spinach and lettuce, they aren't affected. I WILL use row covers! |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Hey ronalawn82,
You are right that no chemical is safe, but Rotonone and Pyrethium are not chemicals. They are all natural plant substances, short lived, and found naturally in the environment. . . as is garlic and other hoemgrown organic insecticides. Both have been used for over a half century that I personally know about, with no major enviromental or health issues when used responsibly and in moderation. Of course if you go and dump it into a pond or ingest it in large quantities, all bets are off. I am guessing that none of us here are that dumb!
Of course, it is always best to use nothing at all, or other organic controls first, but as a last resort, these substances can save a crop without causing your grandchildred to grow 3 eyes. Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Rotenone and pyrethrins are chemicals. They are extracted from plants yes and they are "natural" substances just as Arsenic (which does not need to be extracted) is a natural substance. Simply because something is "natural" does not make it okay to use.
Whether or not Rotenone will kill leafminers is not the subject of debate because neither the manufacturer or the EPA has found this to be effective so leafminers are not listed on the label as a target of the product. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Kimmsr,
You are so wrong as usual! Just because they are extracted from plants does not make them artificial chemicals, and comparing them to arsenic is like comparing a peashooter to a cannon. A tiny bit of arsnic will kill you but have you ever heard of anyone being killed from Rotonone? You would have to in jest a lot of the stuff to even get a belly ache!
You say Rotonone doesn't work for leaf miners because it's not listed on the label. So here is a site that has leaf miners listed as something Rotonone controls - http://www.agri-nova.com/en/products/rotenone.htm
You make a statement that the EPA and the manufacturer does not list in on the label, so it doesn't kill leaf miners. That is your argument! But in other posts, you gripe that one of the reasons you are against Rotonone is because it is a a broad spectrum insecticide, and kills everything it touches, including beneficials. I don't see all of them on the label either, do I. So it DOES kill bugs other that what is listed on the label! So which one of your conclusions is right?
You made a statement - "neither the manufacturer or the EPA has found this to be effective so leafminers are not listed on the label"! So how about documenting whare you got this in formation from, or do you just assume it to be true? Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Mind if I step in here to comment on the OP's question? I have used a spray made from 70% neem oil on my onions for thrips for the last several years and found it to be quite effective. Yes, thrips will be found on the surface unlike leafminers but Neem may penetrate leaves so why not try it and see. Leafminers don't spend their entire life cycle inside the leaf so there may be hope for contact types. Michael |
Spinosad
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- Posted by pdxmark 8/9 Portland, OR (My Page) on
Tue, May 26, 09 at 19:11
| It also looks like spinosad is a OMRI-accepted (or maybe OMRI not-yet-rejected, I can't tell) insecticide with applicability to leaf miners. The OMRI paper on spinosad talks about its adverse affects on bees (until spinosad dries) and fish & mollusks (if spinosad gets into water), but it looks like spinosad doesn't carry far in soil and doesn't do much damage to test mammals. I'm pretty sure my chard (and beets to a lesser degree) are being eaten alive by leaf miners. A spinosad-based spray is available from the same Monterey folks who sell Sluggo. (Their sluggo plus includes spinosad.) So can we can add spinosad to the discussion before my swiss chard are all gone? Thanks. |
Here is a link that might be useful: OMRI
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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From the OMRI report on Spinosad,"Reviewers generally agreed that the toxicological profile for spinosad is relatively benign when compared with other
insecticides. All found it compatible with organic production and believed that it has a place in organic agriculture.
However, all expressed concerns about the effects on beneficial organisms such as bees, aquatic organisms, earthworms,
soil micro-organisms, and parasitoids. Though spinosad is quickly photodegraded on leaf surfaces, it is degraded very
slowly in aquatic environments, and may be accumulated by oysters and fish due to its fat solubility."
As the report says Spinosad should be used by organic gardeners only with due care, it is not a general use pesticide. |
Here is a link that might be useful: OMRI on Spinosad
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| 'organicguy', I wonder if your on-going exposure to rotenone (and other toxins) might be what has caused your chronic bad spelling. I'm just sayin'....... |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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The goal of any organic gardener is to not need to use any pesticide. If you must repeatedly spray any pesticide then there is a problem with your plants nutrient balance which needs to be corrected. If there is a pest problem that does need some action then the organic gardener will always start with the least toxic means of control.
Columbines are notorious for attracting Leaf Miners and mine do get them, but since it does not really affect those plants I do not take steps to control the wee buggers since it is not necessary. If a food crop needs some help an organic gardener, starting with the least toxic means of control probably would use Floating Row Covers on those crops that do not need pollinators to set fruit.
Get your soil into a good, healthy condition so the plants you grow there will be strong and healthy and are better able to fight off insect pests without using broad spectrum poisons that will also kill of any beneficial insects that could help control those pests. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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You miss the point . . . If you already have leaf miners, it's way too late to use row covers. And leaf miners may not kill the infected plant, but I for one don't want them in the spinach or lettuce on my plate, which is where they end up if you "do nothing"!
I have never found another organic control for leaf miners that is effective, once they have become established. That being the case, it make sense to use Rotonone as a last resort, rather than losing the crop or eating the critters.
No one has advocated using it as a "repeated spray" as you say, but only as a means of last resort, where it has a place in organic agriculture. I don't know where you got that idea from.
In a perfect world, an organic gardener would never use any pesticide of any type. This my friend, is not a perfect works, the garden is not a perfect environment and sometimes other controls are required in an imperfect world . . . unless you develope a taste for bug with your veggies! Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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- Posted by pdxmark 8/9 Portland, OR (My Page) on
Wed, May 27, 09 at 14:45
| If I understand the life cycle of leaf miners correctly, a row cover might help prevent an initial infestation, but wouldn't help once you have leaf miners. As I understand it, the problem is that at some point in their lives the leaf miners drop from the leaf to the ground to lay eggs. Unless they were in place before this step, the row covers wouldn't prevent re-infestation even if you removed all affected leafs, I think. Some of my Swiss chard leafs are 12+ inches long and vibrant, so the plants seem fairly healthy despite the leaf miner damage. I've been removing up to about 50% of the leafs to be rid of the buggers, but I don't really seem to be getting ahead. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| You have a choice! Continue to lose 50% or more of your crop and pick infested leaves every day, or use an organic control like Rotonone once or twice. There are some who I consider fanatical that would rather lose the whole crop, rather that use something. I believe in "common-sense" organic gardening. I can't tell you what to do, but I would have no problem using it. Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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Failure to understand the life cycle of a leaf miner may explain why Rotenone appears to be an effective control. Trying to control leaf miners after they invade the leaf, in food crops, is the wrong time to even start and more than likely these larva will not even be in the leaf when it is harvested. If you know, from years of experience, that your leafy food crops will get infested by leaf miners and you do not take steps ahead of time to prevent that indicates a lack of necessary knowledge of organic gardening.
Spraying a poison around to control a problem that has existed for years is not an organic solution to that problem. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| I understand the lifecycle of leaf miners just fine, probally a lot better that you do, and I rarely have a problem with them, even without row covers. Where did you get that I have a "problem that existed for years"! Do you just make up these things for the sake of drama! There is a time and place for everything and certain situtations make the use of organic insect controls reasonable and necessary in organic agriculture. Perhaps you think we should just grow everything under row covers so we never have to deal with insects! Maybe you feel we should just grow everything in greenhouses with tightly controlled bug free environments too. The fact is, most organic gardeners prefer to grow their crops out in the open, in healthy soil, with both good and bad bugs in the neighborhood. There are a number of beneign insect controls to try when problems arise, however, there are times when the problem escalates and these beneign solutions become ineffective. You seem to support the idea of doing nothing, losing the crop, or eating a crop full of bugs. Try telling this to an organic farmer! As I mentioned previously, there is a fanatical approach to organic gardening, and there is the realistic approach that deals with real life gardening issues in an imperfect enviroment. You seem to have a habit of giving wrong advise and not being able to back it up with documentation, on a lot of different issues. When presented with documentation showing that you are dead wrong, you drop the subject and start somewhere else. Most of what you profess to "know" seems to come from what you have read somewhere or been told, rather than from practical, first hand experience. This is an open forum and everyone is free to express their opinions. I totally disagree with you on this and a number of other issues, based upon over 50 years hands-on experience gardening and farming organically. It's your kind of uncompromising, unrealistic point of view that causes people to think of those who embrace organics as "weirdo's"! Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| The proper time to put Floating Row covers in place is before the fly that lays the eggs that become the leaf miners. FRC's can be put in place as soon as you plant the seeds or the starts since at that time there is no need for pollinators to have access to the plants. If what you are growing does not require access for pollinators then the FRC's can be left in place until harvest time and theat will deny the fly that lays the eggs that become the leaf miners access to the plants and therefore you will not have any leaf miners and will have no need to spray a broad spectrum poison at all, thus saving you some expense which will increase your pofit, and maybe make your produuce more saleable because it will then be pesticide free. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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organicguy:
Take this!
 kimmsr:
Oh yeah?! Take that! Lather, rinse, repeat....... |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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gargwarb ,
You are so right! Time to let it go already! Don't want to confuse anyone with facts or common sense! Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org ( a FREE Website )
May Article: Sucession Planting, plus ongoing
garden journal and interactive message boards. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| kimmsr and organicguy you have some serious issues. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| If I could just jump in here. I do not use any pesticides in my garden. I've found that the more healthy the plant is the more it is able to fight off disease. Mycorrizae (sp) is crucial in how able a plant is to fight off pests. I have a massive compost system that is constantly cranking out high quality compost filled with mycorrizae.. I live in the Northwest so I use Steve Solomon's COF and seaweed extract. That's it. Year after year it cranks out huge, beautiful plants high in vitamins and phytomins. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| I have leaf miners that wiped out my spinach crop and are destroying every new growth of my bright lights chard. If I don't use rotenone, then what do you suggest. Its too late for row covers and they are pretty much wiping out my chard crop. I like to keep my garden organic, but I haven't heard any suggestions other than do nothing. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Neem is recommended for the control of leaf miners without the hazards of rotenone. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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- Posted by pdxmark Portland, OR 9 (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 16, 09 at 16:24
| The leaf miner attack against my swiss chard seems to be dying off, without pesticidal intervention. If you google "leaf miners early summer" you'll find a number of sites that talk about leaf miners diminishing after early summer, depending on your area. (The UC-Davis site talked about July-Aug being LF Hell in the San Jouquin valley.) |
Here is a link that might be useful: Sample leaf miner site:
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Neem is another good alternative, which I don't consider any better or worse than Rotonone. Also waiting for the leaf miners to deminish as Summer progresses, is another option for a crop like Chard, that will produce all season. But with spinach that only does well UNTIL the heat somes, for instance, doing nothing means losing the crop. And dmcecchini, I think we all have issues, if you want to be honest. I just hate to see wrong information being given as fact. Ron
The Garden Guy
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Here is a link that might be useful: The Garden Guy Website & Blog
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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wow. some people have passionate opinions about organic gardening and what that means! The dead horse thing at least gave me a laugh, thanks garbwarb! As a newbie, all info is appreciated tho. When I do my fall planting of lettuce, spinach, carrots, etc., I will use row covers to keep them out, as these don't need pollination anyway. I have a bottle of straight organic neem oil. Could I dilute this somehow to make a spray? Is neem safe for plants, and if on veggie crops, safe for my children to consume?
The columbines and nastridiums, I will let go. They are just flowers. I'm not growing veggies to make money, just feed my family and hopefully have enough left over for family and friends. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| I dusted my entire garden one time with carbyl and about a week later there was a breakout of leaf miners that eventually killed all my tomatoe plants. I tried pyrethrin rotenone combo spray and in about two weeks later I brokedown and bought spinosad. It wiped them out, but it was too late. Ther was so much leaf damage my beautifully healthy plants all became sick and slowly died. Never do more than spot dust with carbyl and secondly if you have an outbreak of leafminers spinosad really works. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| Wow, I'm surprised to hear people suggesting 'organic' sprays so readily on the Organic Forum. I wonder if we don't all kid ourselves about the safety of some of these products. There is a great article in Mother Earth News this month about 'pest proofing' your garden and the author suggests just that. I've been growing organically for 25 years and have never used any product organic or otherwise. Most of the time I do nothing. A few times I've tried some home made spray with garlic and a tsp of soap. Picking is one of my most used techniques. As for leaf miners, I've had them in my columbine. They were really bad about 4 years ago. I haven't seen more than one leaf this year with one. All I did was cut off every leaf that had a miner in it every year until there were no more. The columbine easily recovered even when I cut off all the foliage and would grow back a nice fresh healthy rosette of foliage to last the rest of the summer. This year I haven't had to cut off any foliage. I had a large infestation of aphids on lupine this year and I left them alone. In a few days I noticed ladybugs and a week later, I couldn't find an aphid. Are there times when I have not been successful? Sure, cucumbers and squash have had those little squash bugs that cause the plants to wilt. But I haven't tried floating row covers which might do the trick. I have a small vegetable garden and I switched to other crops that gave me less work. I'd rather do that, then use products that I don't trust. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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- Posted by dicot Los Angeles (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 9, 10 at 20:29
| Yeah, my response to the leafminers in my citrus leaves has been benign neglect or handpicking the worst of the leaves. I guess that's not going to work with spinach, but it's worked fine for my tangerines. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| dicot, I wonder if it would work with spinach. Wouldn't spinach plants regrow new leaves if you plucked off any effected by leaf miners? I realize there are time restraints, since spinach is only going to grow before it gets hot, but...I don't know, I'd experiment with using that technique before accepting that it wouldn't work. Anyway, if you were to attempt to grow the spinach and remove any effected leaves and keep at it until there were no more effected leaves, wouldn't you have a 'leaf miner free' zone to grow spinach in, at some point? |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| I have leaf miners and I have a pond I'm very fond of; fish, frogs, small water snakes (I like them)... and Rotenone is what they used to kill everything in the lake they first found snakehead in... and they weren't intending to mess around. That said, I was reading up on the life cycle and so on of leaf miners, and One site mentioned the use of Bt, which is obviously safe for aquatic life. I've been hand squishing them but they've gotten ahead of me and now I'm trying spraying with Bt since they Do have to poke their heads out now and then. Anyone else tried it? If not, I'll let you know in a week or so... |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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I have seen it mentioned here that Floating Row Covers, after you see the leaf miner damage would be too late. Well, yes, because you should be placing the Floating Row Covers way before the flies that lay the eggs that become the leaf miners appear, ie. as soon as you plant the seeds. Once the leaf miner hatches and enters the leaf it is well protected from any externally applied poison so what is left is some kind of systemic poison and those are all synthetics.
While Rotenone, Sabadilla, and some others are accepted by the OMRI people they have so watered down the organic standards, so the major food companies can use the "organic" label, that the standards used by OMRI are pretty much meaningless. |
RE: organic method for getting rid of leaf miners?
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| I came across a simple $3 solution that has helped greatly reduce the damage to my tomatoes from leaf mining flies. I came across this trick by accident after reading a suggestion to remove the damaged leaves harboring larvae. My plants were getting pretty damaged so I had tossed the leaves in a bowl of water, apple cider vinegar and a bit of soap then set the bowl in the sun in my garden to kill the leaves and prevent them from hatching. The next morning the bowl was filled with about 100 flies. For the next week I removed any damaged leaves repeated the process and observed that the flies seemed more interested in the bowl than my plants. Now I empty my home made fly traps every other day and have significantly reduced both the pests harming my plants and any further damage. I also noticed that no beneficial insects are harmed in the process. It takes just about zero effort, isn't harmful to the environment and costs next to nothing. This is my first season gardening and I'm doing a lot of trial and error so perhaps someone else may also have some luck with this method. |
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