There is a pathogen that can be passed from horses to humans

BUT you must eat a freshly deposted hot horse bun The pathogen does not live once the bun cools

Basic prevention, DON'T EAT Hot Horse $hit.

Byron

This manure needs to be composted before going into your garden. If available I would mix it 3 parts shredded leaves with 1 part of this manure and wet it, and it shouild cook quite well.

3 months isn't long enough to break down the poops, never mind the sawdust/shavings. It's a start, but without any additional greens, it will be slow to "compost". I would add grass clippings, household waste/veggies, pulled weeds, leaves, etc., etc., to the mix, let it sit longer, and then use it. If you want to turn it weekly, I would think it will break down enough to use in a couple of months, certainly by the middle of summer. If you don't want to turn it, then it MAY be usable by mid-fall, and definitely by spring. You're right that it should be all one texture, with no obvious "buns" nor shavings, when it is ready to be used.

I use it fresh from the horse IN THE FALL and let it age over the winter.

Healthy horse apples are coated with a mucus that makes those apples hold their shape for an eternity. If I have time, I mix the balls with water and stir till they loose their shape. Then I mulch my veggie beds with that slurry. The manure is completely decomposed by spring.

Pure horse manure is a mild green and so will compost quite nicely on its own once the balls are broken. If you have bedding (sawdust = 200:1), the mix is probably more a brown than a green and greens should be added to get the mix to hot compost.

Back to the original question. Horses are herbivores and share few pathogens with humans aside from the ubiquitous E.coli which ALL excrement contains. (The worrisome, antibiotic resistant strains of E.coli that have been found in some cattle have not been found in horses.) If it has been exposed to the elements for many months, I would not hesitate to use it on NON edible plants.

I would prefer to see it more decomposed before using on edible plants and so would put it into the compost pile through a hot cycle before using in the veggie garden just to be on the safe side.

Horse manure is one of the only manures that perfectly composts itself. It has an ideal moisture content and a 25:1 carbon:nitrogen ratio, which means that it will compost itself without interference as long as it is protected from the elements (i.e. covered so it doesn't dry out in the sun or get soaked by rain) and not mixed with other materials, such as wood shavings.

With all manures, the ideal application method is to lightly incorporate it into the soil in fall. Overwintering takes care of the final breakdown and integration with the soil.

I've never had any problems using even fresh horse manure in my gardens. But, be sure you have your tetanus shot, preferably within the last 5 years rather than the 10 years interval for most folks. Manure is one source of tetanus, as is soil, and gardeners in general are at a higher risk than the rest of the population, and organic gardeners who deal with manure are at an even higher risk.

I obtained horse manure last year and later found out the horse had leptospirosis. If you go to the CDC site you can find a description, means of transmission, etc. Dogs are vaccinated with their yearly shots, but humans can also get the disease. It is not true that the organism dies as soon as the manure cools. It is transmitted in the urine, but that is usually mixed with manure and straw when you get a load for your garden or compost. The organism can live a long time in warm, wet areas. It can be a serious disease, so be cautious about your sources for horse manure.

"Leptospirosis is a well-established medical threat in the tropics and is particularly relevant in Hawaii. Hawaii has the highest reported incidence of leptospirosis in the United States, with an annual incidence approximately 30 times the national rate" - meaning there's about a one in 3 million chance you'll catch it in mainland US, and it happens to be more commonly water borne than animal - you'll not likely see it again coriander!

OTOH there's a 14 in 100,000 chance you'll be a traffic fatality in the US, and a one in 12,000 chance of getting e-coli poisoning, nearly all of which comes from udercooked animal products [not likely horse meat in the US!], not to mention the other very common food poisonings, campylobacter, salmonella, and staph aureus - your kids and dogs will not likely get any of those from the compost in your garden, well done or not

I've used fairly fresh horse biscuits on the garden w/ no ill effects to myself or the marauding neighborhood dogs and cats, and I know a horse breeder who uses it every year on her lush flower beds around the farm - just need to teach the kids to wash their hands regular, especially after being in the garden, rather than try to give them a sterile environment

Bill

I'd let it compost a while longer, especially on the chance that a chemical dewormer was used during the "production period" of the poop in question. Some of the dewormers (e.g. Ivermectin) are quite nasty, and can even prevent composting for a while before they break down.

Now I HAD read that residual ivermectin reduced the population of certain members of the microherd (nematodes, I think) for a very short period of time. However, there was no noticible effect on the rate of composting and the microherd populations rebounded quickly.

>OTOH there's a 14 in 100,000 chance you'll be a traffic fatality in the US,

There is a 8.5 in 100,000 chance of being shot in Washington, DC

There is a 6 in 100,000 chance of being shot in Iraq..

Byron

That's a bit of a relief Apcohrs...I'm currently looking for something a bit less toxic to the soils for deworming the goats this fall, since we have a lot of deer around here.

Just found an interesting page on horse manure composting:

Here is a link that might be useful: Colorado State: Vermicomposting Horse Manure

Pile mine up a good 3 to 4 feet high pile and it was hot all winter. Took the pile and moved in a long line. Each week in the winter the pile moved 3 feet, ie turning it. After 6 months in the winter the earth worms were a happy herd. Off it went to the garden for spring planting of tomatoe plants. This pile was a good 30 feet long and is now down to the last 8 feet. Once that is gone will wait till fall to put on the beds. Think if you turn it once and every single week in the summer you can have a nice ready pile in 60 to 90 days. Similar chat was on the horse forum and most wanted it composted and a few said they just spread it with out waiting.

Hi,

I have the same question as the original poster here. Someone was generous to share their horse manure with us for our garden in the spring of 2006. When we transported it home, it had a very strong odor, despite it having been sitting in a pile on their property. I felt this might be an indicator that it wasn't composted enough to use right away, so instead, we added it to our compost pile. We learned when we went to pick it up that the horse was a diabetic. I wondered if that might be a problem? I couldn't think of what problem it could be, but I thought I should ask.

Our compost pile, is only chopped leaves, grass clippings and spent garden foliage. And I had a pile about 2.5 feet high at the time, the manure was added to the top of that and layered with grass clippings and we have continued to add grass clippings over the summer, but were out of leaves. So now it is about 4 feet tall maybe? I was hoping to use it next spring in 2007. That will be a whole year in a compost pile. Since it is a passive pile and perhaps not really hot, I am wondering if it will be safe to use it on our veggie beds, or if I should stick to putting it on the flower beds?

Thanks :-)

Good thread, especially after the e/coli - spinach issue and all the speculation on cause. . .I regularly use composted horse manure in my garden, about two or three times per year. Did not know about the tetanus threat in manure. . .will have to go get a shot. :( Would like more feedback on disease issue. . .

Good thread, especially after the e/coli - spinach issue and all the speculation on cause. . .I regularly use composted horse manure in my garden, about two or three times per year. Did not know about the tetanus threat in manure. . .will have to go get a shot. :(
Would like more feedback on disease issue. . .

Buns, apples, bisciuts, so many edible terms to describe horse poop, who knew? Very interesting. For the first time I have used horse poop in my garden. I have no idea how it will work compared to my usual chicken and cow poop, I hope good though.

E Coli is in all the excrement you can find, they help you and the animals digest your food. The harmful ones, pathogens, are also present but proper composting will kill them.

Personally, I tend to worry more about tetanus than E. coli, with horse manures.

Tetanus cannot be contracted via ingestion; only through breaks in the skin. The breaks don't need to be deep. Gardening gloves are an especially good idea when working in areas of the garden that have manures, for this (and other) reasons.

The risk is low, in any case.

I know that this is an old thread, but in the event that someone is searching through I thought I'd add a comment about tetanus. Horses are routinely vaccinated yearly against tetanus, assuming the owner is following veterinary recommendations. I would be extremely shocked if tetanus was transmitted via compost from a responsible horse farm. (And horse owners are typically very good about routinely vaccinating!)

Cheers!

The vaccine would cause the animal, or person, to develop immunities that would help keep the disease pathogen from gaining a foothold in the vaccinated animals, or persons, system. Both vaccinated animals and people could still excrete the disease pathogens. There are documented cases of a person passing on a disease pathogen without themselves contracting the disease.

Yes, you are right. I suppose they are vaccinated more often to protect themselves.

Then how about this?

A. The way you get tetanus is by getting it in a cut, right? Not ingestion. If you are wearing good gloves and washing well (anti-b soap is best) then you are fine. Tetanus bacteria thrive in puncture wounds for a reason. It's not going to breed in stomach acid.

B. You are likely vaccinated (booster every 10 years) and are therefore fine.

C. Tetanus is prevalent in moist warm areas and is therefore likely to be found in all livestock environments - not just horses. Also, they are likely to be found in moist, organically rich gardens - perfect breeding ground.

D. There are less than 100 cases of tetanus per year in the US - and even that estimate is high.

I would be (and am) MUCH, MUCH more concerned about the dewormers that horses are routintely given. They are also sometimes given feed through fly control products and cause them to actually excrete pesticides for fly control in the manure pile.

Um, back to the horse manure question. So glad I read this post! Recently a friend of my husbands gave us some stuff that came right out of the stall. These horses are his wives,and are expensive horses that get dewormed on a regular basis. It never occured to me the residues of that in my compost or soil. Not very organic!!!
I will try to get my pile "hot" to use in a month or so.
Any suggestions on how to do this and make it break down faster?

Properly compost that manure and the dewormers will be taken care of by the process. You will want to get the temperatures of that compost into the 135 to 145 degree range to kill off any potential disease pathogens, which pose a larger problem to you than the wormers would, although the worms themselves could be a problem.

Thanks kimmsr! My pile is only about 2 ft high, and i started it in the winter, adding lots of kitchen scraps, dirt, and chopped up leaves. Recently over the past month i've been adding earthworms like crazy. Perhaps when the weather warms up it will get hot? I turn it once a wk, but it never seems hot in the middle.

If horse manure had anything in it that could make you sick or kill you I would not have lived past my teens. I had horses, worked at a large stable and practically bathed in the stuff mucking out stalls. We used to have manure fights throwing it at each other and I've eaten some since I took shots directly in my mouth. Doesn't taste bad at all, by the way. ;)

Tetanus is the worst risk and that's minimal. You need to keep away from scratches from anything rusty since they have about the same risk. I think people keep confusing it with human waste which IS full of bacteria that we can get sick from. Horses are vegetarians and a different species, so catching anything from them is pretty darn hard.

I found a study that shows that horse manure poses no threat to humans.

By the way, dogs LOVE to eat fresh manure. Just don't let them kiss you. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Study on Safety of Horse Manure

Ok, I'm a little tired, and I didn't read every word of that study on horse manure, but I sure didn't take away "horse manure poses no threat to humans".

"Conclusions.ÂWe found a low prevalence of human pathogens in pack animal manure on the JMT" (John Muir Trail)

"Horses and pack animals are zoonotic reservoirs for bacteria and protozoa that may be transmitted to humans and result in illness. Species of bacteria excreted by pack animals that cause disease in humans include Yersinia enterocolitica,4 Salmonella,5 Escherichia coli O157,6 and Aeromonas.7"

Manure may not pose a significant threat to humans on the trails, but the study had nothing to do with growing food crops.

That said, I have used horse manure (also goat, alpaca & chicken) manure on my garden. After learning a bit more about the lifespan of pathogens, I compost it all now.

I agree, dogs love horse manure, but I don't think they care at all how fresh it is. It's hard sometimes to reconcile being a mild germaphobe living with 2 dogs & 2 cats (all very spoiled) in the house. Sometimes, you just have to pretend they're not disgusting. Hard to do when they have poop breath...

Simply because someone has used fresh manures in their gardens for several years means absolutely nothing because that you have not, apparently, gotten sick is more the luck of the draw then an indication that there is no problem. Since it may be some time from the ingestion of the disease pathogen and one getting sick, and since more often than not this illness is relatively mild, people that do get sick from one of these disease pathogens do not go to the doctor, do not make the connection to the manure, do not get tested to see what caused the illness so they keep on going on and telling every one they have never been made sick from using manure. In reality they have no idea, no clue, and are unnecessarily exposing their family to potentially life threatening diseases.

Pure nonesense! Cornell Cooproative Extension and many other leading authorities all agree that use of fresh manure in the garden is perfectly safe when incorporated into the soil and you wait 120 days before harvesting any crop that comes in contact with the soil, and 90 days for crops that do not come in contact with the soil. These are recent reports only months old and I have repeatedly posted links to them on a number of posts, yet I have yet to see any surportive documentation to the claims that you must compost manure and/or wait 1-year before it is safe for garden use.

Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org
New Article "Common Sense Organic Gardening"

I think the (legitimate) reason for composting manure, before putting it on the garden, has more to do with the process of it breaking down, than any health threats. When the manure breaks down it uses nutrients in the soil. Fresh manure can actually remove nutrients. It is a pretty minor problem and one more prevalent in highly controlled laboratory settings, than it is in real life gardens.

I always Compost mine before I use it but that is mainly because it helps break down my leaf pile faster.

I do think that pathogen reduction is a legitimate reason to compost manure.

I don't think that one will absolutely get sick if you use uncomposted manure, I'm not fanatical about it, I have a pile that I know heated up, but I didn't have a thermometer, so I couldn't say for certain any specific temps were reached for any length of time. I used some of it when building my new raised beds, just not necessarily the top layer. The material I used as the top layer may have contained some uncomposted manure in the mix, but if it did, it's been out there since fall. The freshest manure I have was piled here around Dec 31. I'm not going to freak out and abandon the garden or anything.

I found the link below a few months ago about the life span of pathogens, which is why I'm composting manure from now on before using. Just seems a little safer to me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pathogens

The bottom line is that because of the potential for diseases from manures the responsible organic gardener/farmer will properly compost any animal manure before using it in the garden. No matter that the NOP says you can put fresh manure on your garden 120 days before harvest, no matter that some people have put fresh manure on their gardens days before harvesting for years and have not gotten ill, no matter what other argument you use common sense says because manures are known to have these disease pathogens steps must be taken to contain them, prevent others from exposure and that means composting that manure before using it.

Here is a link that might be useful: An earlier report about manure

Hi guardenman,
When any organic matter breaks down in the soil is uses a small amount of nitrogen, which can easily be offset but adding a small amount of a nitrogen amendment.
Soil will also always have a certain amount of pathogens present. A rabbit, squirrel, deer, etc. deposits fresh manure on the soil, birds do the same as they fly over. Does worm casings (poop) have pathogens?
These tests were conducted to determine when crops were safe to consume after the use of fresh manure, and to determine when the pathogen level is acceptable. You are never going to eliminate pathogens entirely. All this you hear about how terrible manure is, is nothing but unfounded hype and not based upon any scientific reports. People have been using fresh manure for countless generations, and to my knowledge, there has never been a major reported saftey issue. All the reports we are hearing about contaminated foods are about contamination during processing, not because of manure use. It is because of issues like this that organic gardeners sometimes get labeled as kooks!
If there is a concern, through washing, which you don't get with supermarker produce, is a good added safty measure.

Ron
The Garden Guy
http://www.TheGardenGuy.org
New Article "Common Sense Organic Gardening"