Insecticidal Soaps must make contact with the target insect to be effective. If the soap is "burning" the leaves it may be too strong a mixture or it may be because it is being applied at the wrong time. Insecticidal Soaps should not be sprayed when the sun is out full, on a hot day, just like many other pesticides. The commercial Insecticidal Soaps have about a 1 percent mixture in them and if what is applied is stronger than that, about 1 teaspoon of soap (not a detergent) in 1 quart of water, it can do harm to the plants leaves.
If you have a continuing problem with insect pests look at the soil the plants are growing in to be sure it is what those plants need to grow strong and healthy so they are better able to resist these insect pests.

rochester, neem oil applications have been proven to be helpful against rose midges. Read and follow the directions carefully; you'll be able to find neem products in any garden center.

Thanks Kim, I sprayed some Safer soap yesterday and it did not burn. So that was good. I think I may have confused it with Spinosad that I tried recently for thrips. It did not help at all, and destroyed my leaves. The soap is good for aphids, but not much else.
As for Neem oil, I will never ever use that again!! I tried it for a couple of seasons a while back. It destroyed leaves worse than anything, and it did not help much at all with pests or disease. My black spot ran rampant until I started spraying with chemical fungicides.
Neem oil sucks! (for roses, anyway)

I'm so sorry that you had problems with the neem. I suspect that it wasn't mixed or applied properly, or perhaps combined with something else. Neem can be an important part in curing AND preventing black spot on roses, as well as playing havoc with the life cycle of plant-feeding pests.

It's good to hear about the bad incidences, though. It reminds us all to be careful about what we use and how we use it.

thanks, I dont think I would risk using it again. I couldnt figure out how a company could sell a product to protect roses, that was so damaging and difficult to use. I think I applied it according to directions. I later thought that the idea of spraying oil onto plants in the summer was asking for trouble, since it will fry the leaves!
I finally discovered chemical fungicides, which were easy and effective, but I still refuse to spray poisonous insecticides. Have you personally had good luck with Neem oil?
Jeffrey

Neem products are very broad spectrum poisons that I have not yet seen a need for. I have not used any of them. I have found that any insect pest problem I may have is usually controlled by judicious use of Insecticidal Soaps.

Yes, Jeffrey; I've used Neem. I purchased it, initially, to control spider mites on some bonsai, but also used it on tomato and pepper plants, and zinnias...all to control diseases.

(Contrary to Kimmsr's statement, it has very little affect on insects and other critters that do not feed on plants directly WHEN USED PROPERLY. Do not spray neem products on the eggs or larvae of beneficial insects (say, ladybugs), though it will have little to no effect on the adults.)

Neem products vary in their ingredients. Some are mixed with an assortment of different oils and additives. phytotoxicity.

I'm guessing that the problems you've experienced are because of the formulation you used. It's more than a little likely that the directions might not have been thorough, as well.

I do follow the directions when it comes to appying in the middle of a hot, sunny day as well as any other caveats. I Damage can be caused by almost anything if we're not careful.

I am also surprised at the response you got from Neem oil and like rhizo, expect the damage was a result of an improper formulation.

Neem oil products tend to be highly recommended for rose care, even by professional rosarians. Green Light makes a product labeled 'Rose Defense' that is Neem based and is extremely popular in my area for protection against various rose insects and fungal diseases. When I grew roses, I used it often and with excellent results. Interestingly, one of the side effects of using this product and one that is remarked on often, is the shiny and very glossy appearance of the foliage after use! But I would never apply it midday - early morning or at dusk is best. Again, as rhizo notes, this product has virtually no effect on adult beneficials and is OMRI approved and considered virtually non-toxic. I wouldn't hesistate to recommend it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell University evaluation of Neem oil

Keeping in mind that any product that is meant to kill something is toxic, and that any product that kills a large number of insects is broad spectrum, even if that product is natural it should only be used with due care, and the more insects it does kill the lower on the list of "stuff" to use it should be. Neem Oil products should never be the first thing to use to control any potential insect pest and its use should be right around the pyrethrins, a last resort product to try. Keep in mind that Arsenic is not only a naturally occuring product but a micro nutrient for plants, but no one would throw around some of that to control insects today as they once did.
That you follow the principles of Integrated Pest Management is part of being an organic gardener.

Here is a link that might be useful: More about Neem Oil

So what exactly is your point, kimmsr? Insecticidal soap is "toxic" as well and is also considered relatively broad spectrum as it targets a wide range of insect pests as well. Many approved organic controls are toxic and in widely varying degrees - neem oil has nowhere near the toxicity of pyrethrins towards non-target organisms, for example. No one was suggesting that neem oil necessarily be a first line of defense but the OP has already stated that he experienced poor results with insecticidal soap.......neem oil is a logical progression and one that is commonly used with very good results against assorted rose problems.

BTW, the "last resort" in an IPM program is generally a commercial synthetic pesticide, not an OMRI approved biocontrol.

For the insects that have a part of their life cycle in the soil, beneficial nematodes seem to work well. You need to know when the insects are in the soil. For us in San Antonio, we can catch thrips in January. After that the soil is warming and they are moving up.

Check out the new issue of Organic Gardening magazine. There is a great article on growing roses organically.