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Any favorite Cover Crops?

Posted by gogarden z5 IA (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 1, 05 at 15:13

Hi, this fall I would like to plant a cover crop. I'm in Iowa, zone 5. I was told that Hairy Vetch and Winter Rye was good. I would like to know what people like best to use and how they do it, etc... I'm concerned about tilling it in next spring I hope it won't be hard like sod.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I'm a 100% no-till sustainable farmer. Therefore I hate using any form of rye cover crops, because they are almost impossible to green manuring without tilling, or using any form of machinery like a tiller or tractor.

I closely mow and smother all my cover crops at green manuring time.

My cool season legume favorites are crimson clover, hairy vetch, and Austrian winter peas. Non-legume favorites are radishes and mustard greens.

My warm season legume favorites are all forms of beans. Non-legume favorites are buckwheat and sunflowers.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Hey Captain, don't sunflowers leave thick woody stalks. Do you
yank them?

Swanz


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Hairy Vetch for my tomato beds, I dont till either, just weedwack it down to ground level and plant the tomatoes into the vetch a week later after wacking.

Supplies nitrogen all season long and no other weeds grow through.

Austrian winter pea and Calendula for my other beds.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

My favorite cover crop is what ever I can get seed for easily and relatively cheaply. Since Field Rye is readily available locally I need not pay about as much in shipping as the seed costs, the local "feed store" sells the seed for the same price as the catalogs minus the shipping charge.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Thats sounds very interesting and I would like to know more about the no-tilling idea. I'm a semi newbie open and hungry for new ideas and ways. Can I ask why people don't till. How would you plant? What about walking on and compacting the soil, what about weeds. It sounds easier but harder in some ways.
Back to the cover crops now would you mow and put the trimings into your compost pile or just let the mowed cover crops decompose on top of the soil right there in the garden. Still don't know what to use for a cover.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

  • Posted by Kris 8b DFW (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 2, 05 at 12:34

Yes please tell about the no-tilling. I have heard it increases earthworm activity, is this the only advantage. Do you never till? I thought tilling was important and does it work with hard clay soil-assuming I tilled the first year?


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

No-till mowing or chopping or smothering, or lasagne style gardening, or even minimal lightly tilled, or "drill" style no-till, sustainable farming, are all based on the "Natural Forest Floor" concept. Nature never tills! Period. Earthworms are the only natural "tillers" of nature! (LOL)

A natural forest floor has mulched browns on top of the soil. The oldest stuff is on bottom, the newest stuff on top. Also there may be some animal matter mixed in too, like dung or even small dead insects or animals. But the forest floor always has more browns than greens and more plant matter than any animal matter. Also heavy browns (like leaves) are on top to mask any funky odors, and to preserve the available nitrogen in the topsoil (or mini-sheet compost pile).

Excessive tillage not only harms or kills earthworms and other beneficial soil macro-organisms, but it also kills and harms mycorhizza fungi in the soil. (Necessary for phosphorus and other nutrients to be released to plant roots.)

Excessive tillage in the soil can be compared to excessive turning, or unnecessary frequent movements to a cooking compost stockpile! It also harms beneficial fungi from forming and growing properly.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

That makes a lot of sense! Although I still have questions about it. What about compaction! I'm always in thegarden area. Right now I don't have good soil, its very hard, I was so pleased after it got tilled in the spring because it was so fluffy but that DIDN'T LAST LONG. I need organic matter and I like the concept that the worms do the tilling and will bring the organic matter down. We are in a drought here in Iowa and the worms are very deep and the soil is like a brick. Does it take long this way to change the texture or should I except hard soil for a while? How do you plant, do you loosen the soil in the holes quite a bit more? So you just leave the cover crop in that same area to decay, just like it would happen in a forest when things fall down. So you would plant around everything it sounds like and not rake it up. I'm trying to get past my old way of thinking that everything has to be cleaned up and then cover every thing with about 3 inched of straw. I was thinking about this fall tilling in some straw then planting my cover crop but now I'm considering not tilling.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

If you soil is really in rough shape and lacking in organic
matter there is no sin in an initial tilling in of lots of
compost/manure organic matter to get it jumpstarted.
But for now you can scratch 3 inches or so of compost into the top
layer of soil every spring and mulch heavily with straw around
your plants. This will keep the soil cooler and moister
(is that a word) during the hot summer months. The soil microbes
and earthworms will also feed on the straw and it will build up the soil.
Slowly but surely you soil will improve.If you wanna go the
no-till route stick with non hardy varietys that will be winter
kill or killed by being cut up by mowing or weed wacking.
Compaction is not much of an issue in my sandy soil but in
your clay soil minimal soil disturbance via the no till method
will go a long way in improving soil structure.

Swanz


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

  • Posted by Kris 8b DFW (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 3, 05 at 1:45

Thank you for the explanation. I am going to have to think on this one though.

Because here in TX, I see no tomatoes or basil or mint or other garden plants growing in the wild. So while I could see growing say buffalo grass or bluebonnets with no till, I don't quite see how it would be the best method of growing things that dont naturally grow in our region. Growing organic, I get-I understand that pesticides are lousy for us and that chemical fertilizers have issues with runoff and don't help plants like organic fertilizers. But...the goal is still to grow things that aren't native as well as if not more efficiently than conventional gardening.

But I just can't get my head around how not tilling would be good, but I'll look into it for sure and thank you so much for sharing the info.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I use a no till method for planting my corn. Instead of tilling I use a broad fork, the teeth sink deep into the earth about 4 inches apart from eachother. I wiggle it a bit and then pop the plants into place. Of course I had to layer and apply lots of compost over the years to create this type of garden. Compost and no till really work! The first few years I did till well until I got the soil worked, then I went to layering and layering with different composts, such as seaweeed or horse manure or alfalfa meal or goat and hen dressing or what ever was int he works for compost...SOme I add in the fall to rest for the winter others I can add through the growing season.

You wouldnt want to put down any manures that would burn your plants once they are established, instead use more gentle feeds like alfalfa or crack corn or aged compost.

Just wanted to speak up as a no tiller here!


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

"Because here in TX, I see no tomatoes or basil or mint or other garden plants growing in the wild."

Domesticated veggies are bred to be hungrier than the native
plants that grow in the wild. They are bred to demand more
water, nutrients, etc. in order to supply you with large delicous
luscious fruits in a relatively short time. With the No Till
method you're simply magnifying to the nth degree what happens
in nature at a slower pace. They say it takes many years for the
forest to build an inch of good soil. But through composting
and adding organic matter we can build up our veggie or flower
beds rather quickly.The native plants in your area do use the
resources available more efficiently than Our domesticated veggies
or else they wouldn't survive..No till method does not mean
not adding nutrients or organic matter to the soil, it just
requires a steady input of OM to the top layer of soil and
letting the earthworms, fungi, bacteria, etc. use it to feed
the soil and then the plants.

Swanz


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

  • Posted by Kris 8b DFW (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 4, 05 at 23:33

OK now I get it, thank you swanz. I also looked it up in the literature and learned it does help conserve the nutrients in the soil, carbon etc (that really surprised me) and saves a lot of labor and resulting energy when used in commercial agriculture (course I just have a tiny little garden). How interesting, honestly, nature never fails to amaze me...its like it knows what it is doing. I gotta get that earthworm population up, I did see one the other day so I know they are on their way...if you build it they will come. I think if my soil seems good enough I'll experiment with this next season. Thank you for introducing me to this idea.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Please can someone give me specific details on a spring cover crop for my pumpkin rows? We will not be planting until JUly for the pumpkins and I hear the no till is the way to go. I would truly appreciate it!


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

CaptainCompost, how much land do you farm on? I am starting a half-acre, and love the idea of no-till, but am not at all certain I can get enough browns and greens to sufficiently cover a half-acre with several inches of organic matter. How have you dealt with that issue? Did you start no-tilling from fallow ground, or had it been tilled in the years leading up to the transition? How did you make the transition, and how did you get enough layers of organic material for all of your beds?

My land has not been tilled recently; we just bought it a few months ago. It is pretty clay filled. I'm getting the soil test done this week. My plan at this point is to build up as many no-till beds as I can over the next few months, and then cultivate the rest traditionally when planting time nears. Over the years, maybe I can convert more and more to no-till.

I was also planning on cover-cropping my unused field with seedballs, not tilling. Have you used this method? If so, which cover crops do best for seedball cultivation/replacing the grasses that are currently there?

I was surprised to hear that you use vetch a lot. I've heard so much that it is hard to kill, I just assumed I couldn't use it in a no till method. What about summer alfalfa? I was considering using that and letting the cold weather kill it.

Anyone else can answer these questions too -- I just directed them to CC because it seemed he was doing it on a larger scale. It's funny, all the info about no-till seems to be for either smaller gardens or HUGE scale farmers. There's less info about mid-size no-till operations. I'd appreciate any thoughts.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

usually a lurker, but i wanted to bring this back to the top because i also have heavy, poor clay soil, and want to farm about 3 or more acres for market. will to till work without beds?


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

For 3 acres? Probably not, at least for a while.

If you till and cover crop intensively for a few years, you might be able to get it to the point where no-till becomes more of an option. It takes time and compost :).


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I've started buying native legumes: Illionois Bundleflower, purple prairie clover, partridge peas. They're more expensive and not really available in an ag store, but I like experimenting with native plants. Most are perrenials, but will be put in with my Timothy hay for the rabbits, and used as greens in my compost/zagna. We'll see how they do this spring- can't wait!


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

To the poster who mentioned how he liked the soft fluffy soil after tilling and how to get this from no-till:

Well, if your soil is compacted and you want a jump start you can till the first year, afterwards you won't need to. But what you want to do is make beds that are no more than 3-4 feet across (so you can reach in without walking on the soil), and put permanent paths between them that are at least 2-3 feet across. The only reason your soil gets all compacted is because you walk on it, when you are planting, weeding, harvesting, etc. Box the beds in so you know where they are. To keep your no till you can still cover crop the boxed beds, just don't ever walk on them. Heap them up with organic matter and the worms will keep them tilled up for you.

For some really interesting ideas on gardening for the household check out Square Foot Gardening. There's a website aptly called www.squarefootgardening.com that you might check out. Before anyone flies off the handle about how its not sustainable because of the peat and the buying of soil. Just look at the good stuff that it points out.

1. Don't walk on the soil.
2. Make beds small enough so you can reach across them.
3. Divide the planting area into squares so you know what is where.
4. Don't plant 2000 carrots on a Saturday all in a row, plant 20 this Saturday and 20 more in two weeks in a little square.
5. Use 20 percent of the area to grow 100 percent of the produce (think of the long rows in a row garden where tons of space (nearly 80 percent of your soft tilled soil) is wasted.
6. Use compost, its good stuff.
7. Lots more stuff I can't remember.

If it bothers you, don't use peat and don't buy potting soil and use it for your garden. But don't discount the whole idea because of a few things that tick you off.

Thanks for reading.

-Kyle


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Square foot gardening on a 3 ac. market plot?


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I'm still experimenting with cover crops. So far I've tried peas, fenugreek and oats. I liked the first two as they bowed down withouth a fuss when I mulched over them with straw. The oats insisted on standing up so they got yanked. I'll stick to peas and fenugreek for an early spring cover. I'll be trialling broad beans (fava beans) over winter. Didn't get to do a summer cover as there was no garden space to cover. It was/is full of food crops.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

This was one of my proudest moments- I had a few hours to do some garden work before I had to travel for work. The ag-supply store was closed and I needed cover crops. I picked up a dry bag of 16 bean soup (variety of dried beans in the grocery) and planted that. It came up great. I've since heard of people buying lentils and other stuff like this. There aren't many "seeds" per pound, but a pound is cheap and available for a small space.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Hey Pablo, I did the same last summer with a old 5lb bag of black
beans and lentils. Came up great.
I planted a small area with Sudan Grass. Great stuff, grows very
fast when things heat up (late spring, summer).I keep cutting it
down as it grew and used it as mulch for other beds.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Hey Swanz! I'm in Londonderry- where in NH are you (probably discussed that before). I have a couple good sources here for horse manure/wood shavings (farmer piles it up and wants people to take it... craziness). Lemme know- I'll post directions to the stash if you want.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

Hi Paul, I'm at the far western end of NH. Swanzey,
town bordering Keene. Got a horse farm down my road
with mountains of manure (a good unlimited stash). I fill
up 64 gallon rubbermaid tubs all the time. I gotta get me a
pickup truck.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I grew buckwheat last summer to attract the bees worked great.


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RE: Any favorite Cover Crops?

I have clay, hard soil of pH 5.4 and wanted to grow something over the hot summer that is easy to kill and will improve soil nutrients and hardness. Something I can easily buy is a bonus. I like the idea of buying beans from the store, but what types are bush-like? I don't want to support them as they'll be growing in the open. Thanks for any suggestions!


 
 

 

 


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