Whatever Happened?

Greg
Southern Nevada

I'm trying to figure out if it's too late for me to start a fall garden now or if I should just wait till next spring. How's your southern NV garden doing in this heat?

I wonder if more agressive advertising can be a turn off to some participants. There have been many posts saying as much, and I find them annoying.

I wonder if the sometimes uncivil/dogmatic tone of some posts could be a reason. Bad enough to deal with the twackle that nature throws our way. For the sake of the value of this forum, I'll take my share of that blame, for which I apologize. I trust that others will also.

All of which might be apropose of nothing.

i'd say they are down to 1/4 or less to 1/3 of what they used to be.

len

[1] Most regulars have gotten most things off their chest by now. The novelty has worn off.

[2] The most verbal and strident posters do cow some others a bit...especially the ones who are pretty much organic and soil building, but diverge a bit from the hard line.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And BTW...Thanks to those who are truly knowledgeable and who willingly share that knowledge here on GW. It appears they are slowly moving on.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Oooh, that ruffles my feathers. Judgmentalism is self-limiting.

"I think that I would enjoy it more myself if there were more serious growers doing some serious growing and asking serious questions."

You have a good point, Greg. Over in another competing site it seems most posts are winding up in chit-chat among the gals. A guy realizes he hardly belongs anymore. Now the same analogy works here some. If a person can't break into the "system", pray tell how they are going to stay around.

"You have a good point, Greg. Over in another competing site it seems most posts are winding up in chit-chat among the gals. A guy realizes he hardly belongs anymore. Now the same analogy works here some. If a person can't break into the "system", pray tell how they are going to stay around."

I don't consider it a guy/gal thing but GW leans towards being a social place to gather and chit chat for people with like interests, and that definitely is great. I enjoy the banter back and forth and do learn things along the way. However, this site is more geared for the backyard hobby gardener, and although I enjoy coming here, I also would like to find a gardening site where people are growing full-time on a larger scale. I do see what you mean by having to be able to break-in to the system.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Maybe the mix of casual/beginner/long-time/serious gardeners [not to mention the occasional prankster] on this forum is what gives rise to some of the irritations/repetitions.

BTW - I only checked a few of the topics in the professional section, but I DIDN'T SEE ANY OF THE ANNOYING POP-UP, DROP-DOWN ADS that are more and more frequent on these hobby/home forums.

Over in another competing site it seems most posts are winding up in chit-chat among the gals. A guy realizes he hardly belongs anymore."

If you are talking about the same site that I'm checking-out, and I'm fairly sure it is, I see what you mean. My gosh, if you're a guy and wanted to post something you'd feel like you'd have to ask permission. It's like a knitting circle or something. I guess that I'll keep searching.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Back in 2007 several of us who used to frequent the lawn forums became frustrated with the heavy handed oversight of the forums by the owners. It seemed that if someone had an opinion that differed from an owner's opinion, you might find yourself banned from the site. Anyone remember Metaxa from this forum? He was THE organic guy here for a long time in the early 00s. Still he was banned for posting a joke on another forum. I know two others who were banned for having opinions. Several of us in lawns found another site that seemed more friendly...for awhile. Then the owners of that one decided to start editing posts. That didn't go over well with me and a few others. Then one of the former GW guys bought some forum software and created a fledgling lawn site. He gathered a few of us to tune it up and help him moderate, and it is growing very nicely month after month. Last summer we were getting 40,000 page views per month. This month we expect 300,000 page visits with 1,000 visitors per day. GW still gets 1.4 million page views per DAY and has 800,000 visitors. But I guess the point is we're seeing growth, so the interest is still out there.

hey rozegardener, you ned to get serious about water harvesting and other water management methods. 1st up buy a decent sized rain water tank, you always need more capacity than you use in any peiod for those drier periods, i would suggest nothing less than 15 thousand litre size our preffered size is 22K/L to 25K/L.

a 100 square meter size collection area delivers 1 litre of water for each 1 millimeter of rainfall. drums/barrels realy don't do enough for the effort to install them, we use drums for our washing machine water and 1 X 220 litre drum does 9 loads of washing in our twin tub washing machine. we get 3 loads per fill too easy.

use grey water (as part of use all water more than once) recipe our site for a laundry gel safe for plants many powder products on the shelf just as suitable, wash dishes by hand detegents available that are garden friendly, use buckets in the showers, bale out the bath's use this and oteh grey water to flush solids only in the toilet. don't use any water to flush urine, hubby could bucket his to be mixed with kitchen water for the garden.

that's it in brief.

len

Some of us are highly interested in making our soil more healthy. Perhaps like me they are not gung-ho 100% died in the wool organic, but believe in most organic principles. I feel I could have some things to contribute, but the "no peatmoss" police are unreasonable ......as an example.

HEY! If more exchange and interest is desired, give and take more. If purity is the goal, keep the present up.

I enjoy visiting and posting here as I too like a little socializing in between gardening. In addition, I certainly don't know it all, (and never will), so I find that I can learn things as well. At least I can pick-up tips that will lead me to research other sites for further information. Besides, it's still really hot here so once in awhile I come-in to escape the heat and read the forums. I do hope that some of the "old time regulars" will return and add their wisdom to the forums. It would be great to see them again.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Does anyone know if there's a way to get notifications when someone posts on a thread you're interested in? If I can find something like that I would be happier posting.

I have asked questions in this forum, and sometimes I have chimed in, when I think I might have a good solution for someone. However, the condescending and judgmental tone of many of the posters in this particular forum have discouraged me from posting anything else (this post is an exception, of course). So here is your answer on this particular forum from this particular poster. I still post in the vegetable, tomato, beans and harvest forums, sometimes on the herb forum. My garden and my life in general keeps me very busy, so I don't post much. But I do eat many fresh and delicious seasonal vegetables and fruits!

about certian posters but not only in this group who do little more than try to undermine other's characters, almost like character destruction techniques, see it often against others had my share of it as well, some feel that only US gardeners should be here, all gardeners have something to offer. some don't seem to understand forum edicate me thinks? or they're itching for a stouch.

reason i keep away from certain topics, which attract these critics.

but there are wider issues with the forum the pop up bit i stopped by using firefox.

len

Regarding the OP: the GW forums in general have kind of run their course for now, I think. Even HT is quite dull, and the exciting days of SOE are a faint memory. We'll have to wait for a fresh crop of interesting questioners and arguers. Personally I have little interest in helping neophytes; I'd prefer a forum for serious discussions of in-depth matters or debate over ideology (for instance, if spending a lot of time trying to exterminate insect pests with neem and bt and ethanol or whatever is organic gardening, then I propose that holistic is the better goal).

"What a shame as this forum could be full of the usual, and in depth discussions. It's up to us to keep it going."

Very true, novice so ask away and I'm sure that you'll get the responses. I check all the forums that I enjoy looking at frequently throughout the day. It gives me a break from working outside in the gardens as it's still really hot here. Perhaps if the forum starts getting more posts the old members will return. I hope so...

Greg
Southern Nevada

I'll start a thread - we'll see what happens....

feel free to visit us at our site we do it natural and organic.

If you mean Gardenweb, I feel that many forums that have a wide variety of subjects like Gardenweb tend to attract socializers and are taking a back seat to Twitter and Facebook and the like. It is commonplace on Gardenweb to see subject line to the effect 'I just want to show you my pictures of .... ' . Or someone posts a specific question and the response is an unrelated personal story. It is easier and quicker to sort out a correct answer from a flood of Google hits than to ask here.

I feel that Unhelpful Replies has a litany of comments that are applicable to both Gardenweb and Organic Gardening.

i try to simply answer the posted question without necessarily being flavoured by what others may have posted.

at the end of the day with the many replies people get they are still going to have to decide which suggested action might work best for them.

len

I do agree with your misinformed people posting on the forums statement.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Now on a lot more interesting note tell us a little about your farm what do you have going on down south

I agree, there's a lot of misinformation that comes-out in the forums. I guess that people feel they know the answers and want to contribute.

Greg
Southern Nevada

Also, sometimes you can post photos inline and sometimes you need to refer the reader to a link; that's confusing, too.

I would use GardenWeb more if it weren't for those issues.

A parallel would be the Hot Topics forum. Goodness, the strident bellicosity can ...well keep one away from it.

Also, I think people DO search the forums & web for answers to their questions, a major reason why there is less traffic. There never was a database of so many gardening FAQs and plant-specific threads before this site and a handful of others. That's no longer the case and the GW threads are quite often on the 1st page of any google search i do for any particular gardening question.

I am not organic nor do I garden so the observation could be, and has been, made what the heck are you coming here for?! Valid point. Why do I come here? Well, I make compost. Many of the people who use my compost ask for information about gardening that I am not able to answer so I have been lurking here almost since I joined GW to try and learn "stuff". I have actually given the website address out to some but I don't know if they ever dropped in.

Where I get myself into trouble is when I see statements that are not quite correct (or downright incorrect) and I try to point out the error. My error with this train of thought was that I assumed accuracy was something strived for. It seems that the first and foremost criteria is to lambaste anything and everything non-organic regardless of reality. My second error was to try and point out grey areas in a black and white world. It seems organics is black or white and grey is not allowed for.

Now I'm not against strict organic procedures, in fact I applaud the effort and I truely believe organics is far superior. But, and there is always a but, I'm a realist. In order to feed the billions of people on this earth and the billions more that are coming, IMO, some kind of high-tech agriculture is necessary.

Having said all that, I am going to now try to just bite my tongue and let stuff go, it's easier.

Lloyd

organics not black and white if it where it may be easier, simple thing is we aim for no man made inputs of chemicals truth is in the end we may have to do a bit different, organic farmers use chemicals no good saying they don't and most likely they would head for that chemical first as they can't have crop failure or they go broke.

in this now garden we have issues we have never had before, apart from an unbeatable tropical fruit fly, this season all our brassica plants were decimated with grubs, by decimated i mean for all the seedling we planted we got a bit of broccolli (no excess to give away as before) and a couple very small cabbages no cauliflower, the cauliflower usually pretty much left alone as the bugs seemed to preffer all the others.

we still had cabbage moth flying around mid winter, yes it has been a mild winter, we have had them before but not with so much decimation. so we are resorting to using natural pyrethrum as health issues are impeding our ability to try and do grub safaris every morning also.

so no it is not black and white, and wayne it is about building a healthy nutrient rich medium, just it aint as simple as chalk and cheese, your efforts should be self satisfying no good trying to impress the critics.

obviously here is a need for chat but the forum is still going down as i see it, more so now as you come into your winter that is to be expeced that is a seasonal change.

in other forums they allow for editing your post at a later time, also for some reason on other sites seems easier to keep track of posts, i got involved in one about mosquito's and rain barrels about 3 - 4 months ago and have never seen it again, couldn't even find it on a search.

len

Al

But a book on the lighter side of grammar - EATS, SHOOTS AND LEAVES by Lynne Truss
....snip....(A self-professed "stickler," Truss recommends that anyone putting an apostrophe in a possessive "its"-as in "the dog chewed it's bone"-should be struck by lightning and chopped to bits.) Employing a chatty tone that ranges from pleasant rant to gentle lecture to bemused dismay, Truss dissects common errors that grammar mavens have long deplored (often, as she readily points out, in isolation) and makes elegant arguments for increased attention to punctuation correctness: "without it there is no reliable way of communicating meaning."

My in and out cycles was reaction to the personal attacks and denial of some of my postings. Very few of my posts are unsupported by experience or a credible source.

The diversity of soils, zones and gardening philosophies makes any suggestion just a suggestion. What works for me may not work for someone else. The foundation principles are still meaningful.

There is a wealth of experience and generosity of information within this forum. I do enjoy a discussion or debate; including rebuttal. Many people easily find offense in a few posts and tend to ignore the thread. This is an open site with very little moderation over the years. Some of the small forum sites are strictly moderated.

This is not a professional site; it is filled with relative novices for the most part. I tend to like it that way, share the info and rewards if something works.

This can be a flexible site. You can add links and pictures although not always so simple for many. Many of the links a a good read, some of the pictures not so easy to make out. The search function is nice and ability to sort (subject/forum) an effective bonus.

I do enjoy the diversity of experience in the GW. There are a few weeds and to many still relying on the toxic approaches. My leaning is towards the healthy soil and heirloom varieties as the right direction.

Technology is wonderful if for the better versus profit and market control. Mother Nature is the best teacher and we the students.

Not to pick on you, Greg (simply because you are the OP of this thread) but a case in point is when for some reason you effectively ridiculed me on a thread about a brassica plant. I surmised that it was a napus member, and reminded that terms such as 'cabbage', 'kale', etc are semantic. What confused me was not that you might disagree with my assessment but that you would need to resort to a kind of round-about bullying in the matter. You seem too intelligent and educated in horticulture for that response. By way of indirect defense of yourself and others, one could probably find threads where I have been equally heavy-handed.

So maybe we all need to ask ourselves: "why do I get so ruffled sometimes?". Over such minor things. Why do we get narrow-minded?

I can't speak for anyone else, I visit G'web daily, however, it's the FL Gardening forum that keeps me interested these days. I still garden organically, but I feel like there's little that's new or relevant to me on the other forums. I used to spend all my time on OG & the Soil & Compost forums, along w/ Sustaining Our Environment(been visiting this site since '95), but never seem to notice fresh topics any more; IOW, same old, same old...

Seems like there is fairly good activity on the various regional forums - perhaps the specialties might just become obsolete? Saturation?

FWIW, I stopped getting OG magazine a number of years ago & don't really miss it - for the same reasons I mentioned above.

If you want to see lots of activity (& get your blood pressure up), check out the Hot Topics forum. I peek in there every once in awhile, but it seems like the same old arguments just go 'round & 'round & I'm no longer interested in argument; been there, done that!

the safest way to oppose is simply post your own idea or opinion with no targetting of any other person. same as being a grammar teacher this is a world we live in not an exclusive suburb or area, many out thee may not be as educated as others or may be trying to communicate using some translation program.

my nams is still len with or without Len.

i thought long and hard before i responded, i was just going to let the critics have it to themselves, as soon enough they may not have it either when patronage drops off enough.

so as this thread closes we are still where we were in the beginning, critics rule. no they haven't gotten to me like, i said i've been around a long time my skin is a whole lot thicker than that.

would like new comers and others to know that we aren't all critics. some of us are genuinely interested in helping.

len

Is your idea of an 'ideal' forum a group of like minded people who post inaccuracies and falsehoods with no other person challenging said inaccuracies or falsehoods?

Lloyd

P.S. I know, I know, I should just bite my tongue.

Anyway, I think part of the problem with the forums is that they have been diluted by so many different topics. Some of the categories are bordering on silly, and many of them surely redundant. I recall that, some time ago, someone tried to get a new forum listing for 'Plants with Yellow Foliage'. Or was it red?

I learn something each and every time I visit the Organic Gardening Forum, and I thank you all for being so willing to share your experience and knowledge.

you have evidence of some person posting falsehoods??

for me i jsut simply tell my story adn leave it up to the poster to determine who they may trust, as having online witch hunts does no good as one snipes from the guranteed curtian of anonimity, i for one can be no more open than provide a web page so people might ascertain to some degree my sense of character.

you have an issue with someone i would suggest you honorably deal with that someone in another way, not in public. i made my opinion on that known. for me i leave well enough alone. there are certain topics i won't even read, just not worth it.

and after all at the end of the day we are all trying to grow something in dirt mostly.

len

and i sign off always

Someone might say, and many have: the only way to control insect pests of a crop is too wage constant war against them. I happen to think that idea is wrong-headed - largely a waste of time and resources. Is either side of that debate dead wrong? Plenty of examples from real practice can be found that seemingly support either.

not worth getting agro' about that's for sure.

as for me i think it is still on my front page what i recommend works for me it may work for you? and generally i don't talk about things i haven't done.

len

But if you don't like the ads, just download the Firefox browser, free @ mozilla.com...it blocks everything, and now has a feature that shows you how many tracking/ad/ cookie attempts you're repelling, calls em out by name.

Another one, somebody brought up Percy the farmer in Saskatchewan who was being bullied by Monsanto as an example of a chemical corporation run amok. This is classic false information. The courts of Canada decided that case and it was not in favour of Percy. Yet many of the fanatics just bob their heads and agree that big bad Monsanto was picking on a farmer. I can't recall if anyone other than me challenged that one.

One more and I'll shut up. A recent post talked about a scientific study on glyphosate yet used the term "RoundUp" in the slam sentence. There are many formulations that use glyphosate yet RoundUp by Monsanto was the only reference used, coincidence? I didn't even bother pointing that one out.

If a person isn't seeing these it's because they don't want to, IOW, they want to be misled.

Lloyd

Or does Lloyd work for someone w/ a vested interest in Big Ag?

Asked and answered previously, but I'll answer again.

NO

And thanks for asking me directly carolb. :-)

Lloyd

P.S. I'll add that tidbit into my profile.

Yeah, I'm a guy.
:D

Seriously though, sorry 'bout that and I enjoy reading your posts.

Lloyd

The courts at all three levels noted that the case of accidental contamination beyond the farmer's control was not under consideration but rather that Mr. Schmeiser's action of having identified, isolated and saved the Roundup-resistant seed placed the case in a different category.

Here is where I recall off the top of my head it coming up in the forums. (note that in that thread as well I indicated I do not work for Monsanto)

Lloyd

a farmer could do this? would he not need to use a laboratory of something? i can't imagine that the seeds would look different?

of course if he did that then he is in the wrong then by the looks of it? and i might suggest not thinking of consequence.

anyhow can't recall we ever heard that down this way.

what was the eventual outcome?

len

:(

Len...

"somehow was able to identify seed from his crop that had been cross pollinated from a monsanto gm crop and then save and plant those seeds??"

Read the case, it explains it pretty well how he did it.

"gm crops r/r ready ones needs a spray application of rounup as part of their growing needs?? the spray actuates some sort of growth trigger?"

No and no. The herbicide is merely used to kill off all other plants giving the canola no competition for nutrients and moisture ergo increasing the yield potential. RR canola is 'tolerant' of RoundUp. As a note, there are other GMO canolas bred for specific herbicide tolerance, RR is but one. Monsanto is not the only company offering a GMO canola. Not only does this potentially help the current years crop, it sets things up for next years crop. Can't speak for every region, but I know of no one around here that follows a RR crop with another RR crop. Rotations are used to maximize benefits.

"what was the eventual outcome? "

The courts decided the farmer was not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, Monsanto won, the farmer had/has big debts.

This specific case has been used as "spin" for both sides of the argument.

Lloyd

I believe that the medical profession along with drug companies AND the FDA have a near locked in bias against more "organic" health solutions. I would like to see the door busted wide open there.....Then you would need HONEST voices to keep things balanced.

Quote:

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--- Whatever Happened To This Forum? ---

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It looks like these people took their rants over to the vegetable forum.

I do not care whether they punctuate well or not, or spell correctly. I used this source long before I joined, as a source of some of the best information available on the web for things from finishing fir flooring to what do with impossible red clay soil.

I'd prefer to have some of the folks on this site as neighbors, so that I did not have to go online. But I do have to go online, and some people here are so thoughtful and helpful, it is truly astounding--no one gets anything for their contributions here. Except that perhaps others will learn from them. (I know that I want to spare others from my mistakes!)

So Gardenweb might seem dead compared to an older incarnation of it, but some of us--the quiet, greener kids in the back rows--listen carefully to you guys. And we actually get some sense of who has experience, who to pay particular attention to. (I just saw something about using the most powerful tiller you can rent, and I made a mental note of it--I will follow that advice, but I did not post the question nor participate.)

So, many thanks to you all. I do not come here to argue, only to learn how to take better care of my garden and better improve my house (both of which are fixers acquired rather late in life). There must be many, many of us, often quiet, "listening" to certain aspects of certain conversations in some of these posts. Again, many thanks to you all.

"Does anyone know if there's a way to get notifications when someone posts on a thread you're interested in? If I can find something like that I would be happier posting."

I think Len also mentioned a frustration with losing track of a post in which he was interested as well as buckstarchaser.

One way to follow a particular thread is the "Clippings" feature at the upper right of each post. There isn't e-mail notification. That would be an excellent idea.

Access your clippings at your Member Page, or by clicking on your own screen name and then click on "See my Clippings" located under the "Welcome"

Terran

I will say that on any forum people tend to say things that they would never say in person face to face. I learned long ago to not get too mad at this as it is usually the other person who has the bigger issues to deal with.

I have learned so much here at this forum, so thanks to all of you for your help.

Anyway, starting to ramble on.

i too would be glad to have very many i have chatted to over the years as neighbours, i get the message people ask or tell no matter where the comma is or the typo, hey we are gardeners and mostly 1 to 4 finger typists, we are not grammar teachers or critics.

no one corrects our punctuation or spelling over the garden fence, this is the garden fence.

take care all

len

Curt P.S. I like most of the post that are not political or argumentative <-needed spell check for that one!