Not many around here (in fact none I know of) are successful at this without having an off farm income of some sort. Whether that is a spouse with a decent job or an off farm job for yourself. Could also be a pension. One would also have to consider the quality of life and lifestyle associated with what will likely be a meager farm net income.

Lloyd

Very strange, isn't it, that it's so hard to make a living providing something everyone needs? I have a niece and her husband making a go of it. They did great when they ran an organic farm for a very rich owner who thought nothing of building a 100K packing area that met all the standards for the local chain of grocery stores. At that farm they got a salary. They just left and have bought and started their own farm . . . will see how it goes.
A CSA, sales to small healthfood stores, a farm stand, and pick-your-own berries will all be part of their business plan.

Something I've looked into a little, because my parents have farm land that is not being used, is young farmers working land that is owned by folks who want to see it used for organic farming but are too old to do it themselves. The farmer lives on the farm for free the first few years, then maybe begins to pay the taxes when he/she starts to make a profit. The land owner benefits from the improvements made to the land, but does not charge rent. There are places on the internet to hook up with these opportunities. To pay a mortgage or a lease and try to make a living may well be impossible. But to have land to use for free/almost free must be do-able since these arrangements are going on around the country. Two friends of mine are living on and farming an area within parkland, which they use for free under a county program to preserve houses within parkland. They do a CSA which includes eggs, pick your own berries and flowers. They also do education programs on the farm which adds to their income. They've been making a good living for several years.

The educational component on a farm can involve children (after school program -- come dig potatoes! Parents will actually pay for this!) -- another way young savvy farmers are making a go of it.

I hope these anecdotes and ideas help as you mull your options.

Good luck with your endeavors!

You need to find an organization for support such as veteran farmer training. They have helped many returning veterans make a go of small scale farming.

Here is a link that might be useful: veteran farmer training

No one ever seems to note the underlying reason: relative cost of food. When small farmers made a good living, so at least back to the 1950's and really to the 1920's, food cost for an average person or family as a proportion of income was hugely larger.

it's as simple as that.

You might want to consult with a farm family that has actually been successful doing this.

There is one in our area, the Strites family.

Location is part of their success--they're about five minutes from a local Walmart, and for years were able to keep a billboard on the road that passes by that on the way to Hershey.

Additionally, they are not organic. They raise many varieties of apples, peaches, pears, plums, peppers, tomatoes, squash, pumpkins, gourds, green beans, watermelon, melons, greens, eggplants, kohrabbi, corn, etc etc, cherries, strawberries, blackberries, and small amounts of raspberries and blueberries in season, and they seem to market the produce of some others people in the area as well. They have greenhouses and also sell young plants and flowers in the springtime, some perennials, and firewood from cut down apple trees. The mother does baked goods and the husband cans specialty condiments; they also sell canned and jarred peaches and conserves. They also have a demo behive in one of their walls and sell honey.

Freshness, ripeness, and the pleasure of visiting such an active and attractive enterprise keep them very busy. The whole family works at it, and they hire help as well. It has gradually evolved over many years to the point that they now have two dedicated checkout counters and mini shopping carts. Oh, and they sell cider and fruit slushies.

There are other farms in the area with stands, but nothing else approaches the variety you find at the Strites' farm. They also ship gift boxes of apples, etc.

DH and I usually go there at least once a week during active growing season, and as able in the cooler months. They have an active pick-your own program, too, which we participated in with the kids when we were younger. Their prices keep going up, but they are in line with similar quality elsewhere.

IMO crops that can be grown organically should be, and if you are producing in a market area with restaurants that can produce the income you need you can do that, but I agree that many are still not willing to pay the true cost of production, or overlook the minor blemishes that occur.

I can't see myself ever having been able to pull something like that off; I assume they inherited the farm, which is low rolling hills. Additionally, the land around here is some of the most productive in the country.

A co-op of some type might help. IMO vermiculture and beekeeping should be early components, with an emphasis on raising native earthworms to help improve land quality. I don't know what the laws are about pesticides for some crops but not others, but you might just have to let others grow those.

It's an enormous amount of work, and only those who really love it are happy doing it.

Froberg's Farm south of Houston is a successful small farm, they grow produce, and fields of strawberries where people pick the berries themselves.
But they sell produce they do not grow also, plus make pies and stuff, and there is a smokehouse associated with them.
It is very well run and a lot of fun to visit, and the mini warm pies are a big attraction (to me, lol).
Research goat's milk, in California for instance there are a number of laws and rules and inspections, you can't just milk a goat and start selling milk.
Large farm politics can definitely have an impact on small farms, as can the multitude of laws in various state about farm location, etc.
. Some people say that the Right to Farm acts in various states seem to favor farmers but sometimes act as a Trojan horse for Big Ag. Read up on it.
Don't let the complications dissuade you, just be aware. I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks so much for the good feedback so far, it gives me more to think about. A really good point is that it could be something to do on the side or retire too. I could build up some land and facilities on it, and maybe have my future spouse work on it if she's into it with me doing some stuff after work though. However though, there's difficulties to that too. I am working on a Horticulture degree, and my instructor said to expect $35,000 a year, which as low as it sounds is actually higher than the actual average of about $25,000, and the highest I can make is about $50,000-60,000. Say I make $35,000, that's just enough to maintain an average lifestyle (not buy land), and would likely require my spouse to work too. I would likely have to marry rich to live out that plan, but that's obviously something I will never plan on. Just se more thoughts though...

You might find the Market Gardening Forum here on GW of interest. There's a Homesteading Forum as well. People there discuss stuff like polytunnels, land prices, marketing and business plans.

Here is a link that might be useful: Market Gardening

Organic small farms survive if the land is inherited. They barely reach the small balance (balance between the money earnt and the money spent, no taking into account the big investments for land or machinery). If one has to invest in land, then all the money goes into paying the bank and none is left to pay for labor and everyday bills.

The main problem is human labor, which is very expensive in organic : weeding by hands with no use of herbicides, nets in ground to protect carrots from pests with no use of pesticides, predators' eggs spread by hand instead of insecticide sprayed by plane.

People all agree that organic is better. But they're reluctant to pay more for food. Some decades ago, they used to spend 1/3 of their revenues for food. Now they spend 12 per cent. OK it's not food it's crap with transfat that's killing them and the secondary bill (sterile land, dead ocean, polution, etc) is left to their kids. But human brain is hardwired to apprehend immediate reward. And spending 12 per cent instead of 33 per cent of your revenues on food allows you to spend the saved 21 per cent on frivolities such as a gasguzzler or fancy clothes. Such frivolities are a great means to show off whereas expensive organic food won't give you a trophy wife or a status. Not to mention that parents who cook organic for their kids are constantly hearing complains about those lousy rotten veggies versus the delicious nuggets and wonderful fries eaten at the take away.

I have friends who have inherited land and house and who've been organic farmers for 35 years. They live according to their green ideology and in agreement with themselves. They sell their production directly from their own place. They also sell seedlings B to B to other growers now that organic is more fashionable. But honestly they don't make much money. Thing is, tree huggers don't give a rat's butt about fancy cars and fancy clothes. My organic friends organize visits of their farm to try and educate people, they go to schools to speak about ladybugs and they write blogs that bore you to death. They look like scarecrows with their exploded hair but they do look happy.

I guess when you choose to become an organic farmer you choose an alternate life on the border of our consumer society. It has more to do, I think, with a personal choice and a personal passion than with making money. I assume that when you're old and you honestly look back on how you lived, you feel better having been an organic farmer than having made heaps selling GMO and chemicals to poor buggers.

Agreed -- food is too cheap these days. And that's why it is both cheap (not expensive) and cheap (quality).
When I'm old and rich I'm going to buy land and free-lease it to young organic farmers to farm.
This could be happening in the next five years :)

Move near me :). I might ask to free-lease my neighbors four acres during the upcoming season, because they don't even live in the house currently and I would save them the cost of mowing their lawn. If I did this, it would sort of be half assed and temporary since I don't have anything set in stone. If I did this, I would probably buy a tow behind tiller for a lawn mower, till the whole field, and set up a temporary deer fence. This most likely wont happen unless they have this intention for the future of the property since I would ruin the lawn and damage soil structure. I would also have to determine how I would work it since I'm in college on weekdays. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. Something I also considered was renting another neighbors property which is 9 acres of woods and 1 acre of overgrowth for goats. I actually factored in costs to make that 1 acre a goat farm, but I determined that live animals are too much of a liability and investment at this time

Contact your county's Extension Service office.
They may have something akin to a Small Farms Agent, if not in your county perhaps regionally in your state.

I'm in WV, just below PA. Got my eye on riverfront right at a swimming hole-- sound good? :)

I've seen a couple of contracts for free leases. One example of something the farmer can to do increase value for the land owner might be to manage the forest, trimming junk wood and allowing more valuable trees to have more room/light. Maybe you could free-lease the 9 acres in return for managing the woods in a way that would benefit the owners?

The free-lease (have we just coined a term?) in exchange for mowing sounds great -- and maybe they wouldn't mind a little tilling? Definitely doesn't hurt to ask. Someone living in a house protects it, too.

For when you'd be really ready to settle in, with your imagined wife-to-be, I was told there needs to be a long term commitment by the land owner so that the farmer doesn't put in a ton of work and then get kicked out.

PA did have a program to link farmers with land owners -- it is now dormant because of lack of funding, but there are still resources on the PASA site to help people link up (classified ads and discussion board). Link below -- hope this helps. Dream on!

Here is a link that might be useful: PASA farm lease connection

In my area there's actually a tenant farmer that manages thousands of acres in my county. I live in the suburbs, but every now and them you have a 40-200 acre farm. None of these are legit farms, they are either part of large school campuses, vacant properties, or land owned by rich people. The farmer has his barn located on a vacant school campus and he has millions of dollars worth of machinery and grows grain, corn, and soybean. This obviously isn't what I look to do, but I thought I'd note that. As far as long term commitment, I thought that too. If I did do a free lease on my neighbors 10 acres, I was going to try to make a 5 year lease agreement. Considering my unknown future, I don't plan to make this kind of commitment now. The neighbor with four acres would be my most likely if I did it now, and like I said I wouldn't put a lot into it

A marketing survey is the one of the first steps in farming commercially because it determines what people will buy.

Another early step is locating farm land, not just acreage.

Fwiw, most of the more financially successful recent food producing micro farms concentrate on high-value/quick-turnover things like salad greens or incorporate a lot of added-value processing for their products on their farm (especially milk-animal farms).

I don't know how much more over-priced local lettuce and goat's milk cheese the United States can take, but if your market needs access to it...well, it's quite lucrative when done right even if it's a lot of work.

I haven't heard of free leasing. Seems like the IRS would treat it as either income to the lessee or a gift (with gift tax) to the lessor.

Just talked to a friend/neighbor who expects to finally be able to pay himself from his farm next year. The reason is he finally hit upon two value added products that work for this area both in terms of climate and what people will buy: honey and honey wine.

Honey is a big one likely, which is most likely because it's a pain. I got one bee hive, and haven't gotten any honey this second season. Bees also need quite a bit of maintenance and upkeep. Even though I wear a bee suit, I always manage to get stung, and I have large local reactions so when I get sting in the arm, my whole arm swells up

Yikes. That's weird about getting stung. I was at the bee barn yesterday, and there were bees buzzing all around (he is spinning 3K pounds of honey this year, so LOTS of bees) and my friend said, "don't worry, they aren't protecting anything" meaning they wouldn't sting us.

I know they say that a large local reaction very rarely becomes the more serious life threatening reaction, but it still sounds scary to become a bee keeper given your reaction!

Asparagus or green house ginger sound safer :)

Honey bees will not harm you unless you mess with the hive. I've stand by the hive all the time, water flowers next to it, weedwack, etc and they don't mess. However, open up the hive, and you are do for a lot of fun...

Oh right -- then they are protecting something!

This episode of Growing a Greener World might be of some interest.

Here is a link that might be useful: GGW 308

Very do-able here. I am in Sullivan county NY, southern NY state. I have goats for milk, chickens for meat and eggs, all vegetables.
I am 2 hrs from NYC, If you can deliver to the markets in NYC you can make a fortune. I have a processing plant for cheese and could pasteurize milk if I want , I sell it raw.
There is a huge potential for Organic produce and milk and cheese in this area. Folks have to have a bit more money to spend on it. In NYC and surrounding areas are willing to spend more on their food.
I do it on 15 acres but 10 of those are woods.
And by the way I am putting my property up for sale as I am ready to retire.

Forgot to mention, rentals are a big part of the equation. We have 6 rentals that bring in a yearly income of $32,000. So you can live off the income while getting the farm in order

Does 32k (minus the maintenance cost of the rental buildings) equal the carrying cost of the sale price? If not then trying to grow food for a living doesn't work.

That's the part that few people seem to mention, or think about. Growing food does not generate profits to keep up with the rise in land value in highly populated areas like southern NY. Not by an order of magnitude.

Also worth discussion:

What is "farming"? Most still have an old-fashioned idea of raw produce being sold at the gate. However, at least from what I see, successful "farms" are more like vertically-integrated corporations. Yes, they grow some stuff on land they own or rent, but the profit is in value-added. It always involves retail marketing. So many of these operations are retailer marketers (merchants) as much as (or more) than farmers. And if the operations trucks stuff distances to urban markets then they are also a distributor.

It's foolishness (IMO) to think that one or two people could manage all that.

I am not sure what your question is phbrown.
I have a total of 8 apartments here, I live in two.
The other 6 bring in $32K, expenses run about $10K.
The farm itself pays for itself. Animal feed is paid for my the sale of milk, cheese,eggs and produce. I also do a little bit of boarding.
Since I do not pay for any food, except grains, my household costs are minimal. Rental income pays all taxes, utilities, vehicles and repairs. I have been able to put away about $40K in the last 5-6 years.
I could grow 4 times what I do and sell it all at markets and local restaurants, but I am too old. I could also have many more goats and be able to sell more milk and cheese but again too old.
So in my opinion, very do-able indeed.

I think my question is pretty clear:

You have offered your place for sale to some potential farmer. You have not named a price, said how many acres, soil type, water resources, etc. You have said a rental income of 32k justifies buying your place and trying to make a living farming it.

There is no way to know that without knowing at least the answers to the questions above. In most parts of the eastern US the market value of land makes trying to "make a living" by selling farm produce is an impossibility. It's all fine if one bought the place years ago when it was much less valuable in relative terms, and/or paid off the mortgage if there was one by doing some occupation much more remunerative than farming, or most workable of all, inherited the land.

Buying land these days, most places, to live by farming is not feasible. The result will be a big loss of time/labor and any money invested.

I am sorry, I figured any one interested would ask the price and such.
I am asking $320K. I have 15 acres on 2 adjoining lots. Two town sewer hookups, two town water hookups, a well which needs a pump. All 15 acres are sub dividable into 15 1 acres lots. Barn chicken coop, 2 run in sheds, cabin,4 or so assorted sheds and out buildings, about 2 acres of pasture and another 2 altogether of tillable and it all borders the Neversink river.
So the $32K pays back you initial investment in 10 years.
Making a living by selling farm produce is absolutely do-able especially here where you are so close to NYC,2hrs. If you can not figure out a way to market your products to those folks with ALL the money then you have zero business sense!

Thanks for the info, Steff.

I have to say it seems incredible that a property of that sort would gross 10% of the market value in rent per year, and yet include quarters for the owner. Should be a very easy sale since the net from the rent is higher than the monthly mortgage payment.

Steff, I don't mean to offend but I'm surprised at the good bargain.
Why don't you try to sell it for more ?

We settled on that price because we want to sell. Also the 10% factor makes sense.
We are not trying to get rich. Just wish to retire in VT.
If the "bargain" would help some one else live their dream of owning an Organic farm it would be worth it.

Steff, I hope you soon find a nice bunch of tree huggers (like me but I'm too far away and too old now :-)) able to buy your place, so that they can be happy on your organic farm, and you can be happy relaxing :-)
However it might be a good idea for you not to retire in a tiny condo right in the middle of Manhattan ;-)
Good luck !

VT is comfortably far from Park aveâ¦