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Excess Zinc and Boron

Posted by peter_6 (My Page) on
Fri, Oct 23, 09 at 15:45

My recent soil test shows good nutrient levels except zinc at 20 ppm (2005 - 15 ppm) and boron at 4 ppm (2005 - also 4 ppm). These are much too high. At different times I have applied kelp meal and granite meal to provide trace minerals, as well as city compost and rock phosphate. Does any one have a clue as to who the culprit or culprits could be? I may be driven to foregoing all af them for the next four years. I do plan to apply some gypsum however to provide more calcium to balance out the potash and magnesium, which are both a little high. Regards, Peter.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Re: the excessive boron levels, the attached link may be helpful. At least to understand the possible reasons and ways to mitigate. FWIW, the author is associated with the leading soil testing lab in this area.

I can't offer much help with the zinc but I might want to investigate the irrigation water available. Both boron and zinc can be found in high levels in water depending on source and runoff. Have you tested your water supply?

Here is a link that might be useful: Boron


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

It's important to know where you are. If you live in Boron, California, then the culprit might be God.

When you say you're going to add gypsum to balance out the potassium and magnesium, do you know how much to add? Did your soil test include a salt balance test?


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

gardengal48: thanks for the water idea; I shall check it out. I water from a well; I didn't water this year, but used lots in prior years.
dchall: 1. I live in southeast Michigan; what does this say to you? 1. The lab recommended 750#s, which I translate to 1 3/4 #s per 100 sq.ft bed. But if they hadn't, I might just have had to work it out from the base saturation percentages. 3. No salt balance test -- it's unusual here. Now I think about it, I need a little more salt because this year's tomatoes tasted a little bland. I hope these answers give you a clue on the boron and, especially, the zinc. Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

What is the level of organic matter in your soil?


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

kimmsr: 7.8%. Does this suggest an approach to the problem? Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

I used to live in a town with excessive boron in the well water, which was brutal for some plants. Nothing helped except not planting certain plants. OM levels made not one iota of difference.

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

There are some studies out there that indicate adequate levels of Organic Matter in soils help keep plant from uptaking some nutrients that are too high. I'm thinking there might be something about that in "Building Soils for Better Crops" but at 241 pages that may take some time. I'm also aware the there are studies the appear to dispute that contention but those I have seen did not have adequate levels of orgnaic matter in the soil.

Here is a link that might be useful: BSBC


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Davis, CA may have one of the highest ratios of LArch/horticulture:laypeople in the U.S. Boron is a big problem in that town.

The diligent efforts of the hippies in the domes, the successful gardeners in their homes, and the findings in the tomes find no relief from boron by adding OM to the soil. Unless there is something very new that I missed.

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Adequate levels of organic matter in soils is known to tie up, bind up, excess Aluminum, buffer your soils pH, and do other amazing things so while I've not seen anything specific about Boron there is no reason to doubt that asequate levels of OM would not also tie up that micronutrient.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

there is no reason to doubt that asequate levels of OM would not also tie up that micronutrient.

Sure there is. I explained a specific case above. To reitierate: despite the wish of some, excess boron in the soil is not ameliorated by the efforts of a legion of talented, knowledgeable gardeners addiing OM in a place with high boron in the water.

One must also define "adequate", as the OP's soil cannot be considered as having an inadequate OM %age, yet there is a B problem.

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

When researching this question initially, I seem to recall reading about a relationship between boron and OM. Interestingly, it was included in the link I provided earlier :-)

In mineral soils, release of boron is usually quite slow. Much of the available soil boron is held rather tightly by soil organic material. As organic matter decomposition occurs, boron is released with a portion being absorbed by plants, leached below the root zone area (especially in high rainfall/acid soil areas) or tied up (unavailable) under alkaline soil conditions.

So if I am interpreting this correctly, boron IS bound by OM but as that OM decomposes, the boron is released. It still does not indicate that adding OM will ameliorate the problem of excessive boron concentration, only perhaps delay its release and uptake.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Interestingly, between 2005 and 2009, soil organic matter increased, while boron ppm was unchanged. Does anyone know anything about zinc, which worries me more? Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

That is because OM does not really buffer B, as it is an ~easily exchangeable anion. Again, I used to live in a place that had high B in the water and many plants suffered, and adding OM never helped in that place.

You won't like your plants responding to B toxicity, but you are correct that Zn could be a bigger problem. What is your pH there?

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Check out this Rutgers link. The excesses do have bearing for those plant sensitive to the toxicity effects. Phosphorus levels, pH and use of leaf compost have potential to aid in adjusting. If good drainage exists then a period of heavy watering may leach excesses; a strong likihood that a lot of other nutrients would leach in the process. Certainly no easy solution.
Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Micronutrients


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Okay, stupid question from a newbie who wants to learn:
Why would excess levels of zinc and boron be bad?
What would the effect be on plants?
What are natural sources of these two minerals?
TIA!


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

A little too much Boron in the soil can cause plants to die, that is why some people mistakenly suggested spraying some "weeds" with Borax without understanding that the excess Boron would poison the soil those "weeds" were growing in.
Too much Zinc in the soil can cause plants to not be able to uptake, or properly utilize, Iron and Magnesium.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Excess levels of any of the plant macro and micronutrients can be bad - nutrients in excessively high levels affect the plant's ability to access and assimilate other nutrients, so the plant suffers in health and vigor. Often, too high levels of one nutrient will bind or make unavailable other nutrients. Excessive levels of some may also encourage insect and disease problems. That's why you will often see cautions that over- or improper fertilizing can create more problems for plants than under-fertilizing. There is an optimum range of nutrient concentrations that plants require to grow well and produce fruit or flowers - too little will affect growth as will too much. That's why it is a good idea to have at least a base soil test done to see what those current nutrient levels are and how you may need to adjust them. Different plants will react to lower/higher levels of specific nutrients differently and again, results of soil tests will recommend appropriate levels depending on the types of plants you intend to grow.

This is a bit of an over-simplification......nutrient management is a rather complex subject and there are many other factors that can come into play as well - soil type, soil pH, irrigation water quality, etc. - but generally home gardeners do not need to over worry this issue. Peter's situation is somewhat unusual :-)

I've included a link to an extension service tutorial that explains nutrient deficiencies and toxicity rather well. Keep in mind that it may be addressing very regional soil conditions as a variable and recommendations may be swayed accordingly but the basic info is sound.

FWIW, both boron and zinc are naturally occurring minerals found in all soils, usually in some sort of chemical compounds or ore. Boron tends to be a rather uncommon element and is typically present in very low levels.

Here is a link that might be useful: nutrient management


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

I didn't see the link above describing B toxicity. Our plants would have burned leaf edges and eventually abscission, poor flowering, stunted growth and low vigor overall. I've never seen Zn toxicity except where we made it in the lab.

I remember a tupelo outside one building that was stunted and never turned a good fall color, and several perennial spp. that always looked ratty and rarely flowered.

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

I've seen zinc toxicity a few times, but only in nursery containers. Although I've never seen it happen with zinc at less than 150 ppm or a pH of greater than 5.2.
Boron toxicity can be tricky. Some of the common symptoms you're describing Dan, are right on the money but the tricky part is where they show up. Boron is immobile in many plants and in those cases, toxicity symptoms will show up on older growth. But it's mobile in other plants and will show up on new growth.
It's also funny because it can cause copy-cat symptoms like small spots of necrosis that drop right out of stone fruit leaves and looks a whole heck of a lot like "shot hole".
I don't really have a point so I'll stop typing now.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Some of the common symptoms you're describing Dan, are right on the money but the tricky part....

You are kind enough to write about my excess boron, not excess moron. ;o)

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

The information you gave was 100% right. I just felt like tacking a little moron.....uh... more on.

Sorry buddy, you bumped and set so I had to spike. It's the law of the internet. ;P


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Sorry buddy, you bumped and set so I had to spike.

Had I known an emoticon for bump & set, I'd have typed it.

Dan


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Dan: you asked about pH: it's 7.3 on the basic test and 6.8 on the available test. Does this suggest anything to you? (By the way, I never understood why there would be more hydrogen on the available test than on the basic test. Why on earth [sorry about that] would this be?) Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Interesting excess, and likely a result of your geology. Had a quick look at a hydrology map and note the prominent presence of clay and silt.

The OM% appears within the suggested range for clay soils. What was reported for your CEC (cation exchange capacity) and specifics under Base Saturation?

Were there any specific nutrients rated as high or low?

It is interesting to compare soil test reports and the influences of regional soil differences, rainfall, etc. It is also noted that differing testing methods provide diverse results. You really need a vast knowledge of soil sciences to make heads or tails of some tests; and the lab methods.

Generally boron one of the leached trace elements. An excess would suggest that a subsoil drainage block. It is unlikely that any simple remedy will answer.

More details of the total analysis report may guide my thoughts and research.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Dan: the report is a bit long to relay in its entirety, but here are some highlights:
c.e.c: 21.1; K: 4.1%, Mg: 17.6%, Ca: 78.3%.
Nitrate: 80, Ammonia: 4, available phosphorus: 460 lbs.
S: 24, Zn: 20, Mn: 37, Fe: 66, Cu: 2.5, B: 4 ppm.
Three points: 1. this isn't a clay soil; we are on the border between clay and sand, so we have a nice loam. 2. Re. your geology point: what concerns me is that zinc has increased, from 15 four years ago. 3. Although the base saturation numbers look fine, remember the high c.e.c., which means the potash (818 lbs.) is really in excess.
Do you supose that the increased zinc more likely came fron granite dust, rock phosphate, kelp meal, or city compost -- all of wich have been appled from time to time, but certainly not every year. Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Peter, I really find this a challenge and intrigued in most soil science investigations. The revealing of zinc increase and boron excess are surprising since most often in reduced supply as trace elements. I fear that there may be local influences beyond control. Likely a deposit or input source feeds into the ground water; natural soil solution percolation brings it to surface waters. It may be something your local extension services can give answer to.

A potential remedy is negated by your provided data. An agronomy library article "Calcium in Soil" in the 'interaction' section indicates that high soil calcium inhibits boron uptake and utilization. Your CEC calcium is above suggested percentage range range and likely (unidentified in analysis) also high. The input source increases seem less at fault unless applied in high excess or applied too often. Ground source seems most likely.

It is noted that you did not indicate toxicity symptoms in you opening post. Could it be that the analysis alone has pointed out the high zinc and boron? Perhaps the high OM% and calcium are working at limiting the B uptake.

The high CEC (21.1) is tied to higher clay component and K+ cation prominence in the available potassium level.

You may be better served in understanding the total nutrient picture by speaking with a local expert.

Thanks for broadening my appreciation of soil analysis results in different regions.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

One thing to find out regarding the Zinc is has there ever been any lead mining in your area. I seem to remember a small part of Michigan had mines. If you are in that area then zinc occurs naturally with lead.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

On re-read of the thread I caught the pH. The two figures would seem to show that they measured it and also did a buffer test.

Thus it would appear that your actual pH would be 7.3. It is unlikely that a 6.8 pH would be buffer test for an increase. The high 7.3 pH would lead to an identified target pH and a recommended sulfur amendment to lower it.

Now I wish I had the soil science degree. hee hee

Was there a recommendation to change the pH?


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

I have no clue what is meant by "basic" pH vs. "available" pH. I've never heard of pH reported that way. Are you sure it's not active and buffer?
Either way, zinc at 20 ppm is nothin' I tells ya, nothin'. Even if your active acidity is 6.8, zinc could be at least 5 times that and you would be fine.
The boron level may or may not be a problem, depending on where that number came from.
4.0 ppm measured in saturation extract = bad.
4.0 ppm extracted via Mehlich 3 or DTPA = may not be a big deal.
It's the soluble boron that will give you problems, which gets picked up in saturation extract. Boron that you measure after pulling it off the exchange sites of the colloids with a more aggressive extraction, but does not go into solution readily won't result in toxicity problems for plants. However, both soluble and insoluble boron will show up in the Mehlich 3 and DTPA extract. Hence the "may not" be a problem rather than "It's for sure not a problem".


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a bit more

And just a side note: I'm betting that your active pH is the alkaline number because your base forming cations add up to 100%. If the soil was even slightly acidic, then at least some of the exchange would be occupied by hydrogen and, naturally, the base forming cations would add up to less than 100%.
Also, you can get a rather high CEC in a loam or sandy loam with lots of organic matter. I'm not saying that's the case here. Without actual particle distribution data, It's impossible to know the clay content. I'm just sayin' is all.
On a side - side note: granite dust, kelp meal and city compost are all potential sources of zinc. It's impossible to say the zinc addition of any one of those without an analysis since zinc content can vary in all of those sources.
You also mentioned zinc increased over the years. By how much and was zinc extracted the same way in both tests? If not, you're comparing apples to oranges (see above).
I only ask because it might be worth finding out where the zinc is coming from if there really is a big increase happening. But allow me to reiterate, based on your current chemistry, you don't have a zinc problem.
Okay, I'm done now.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

I say again, this isn't clay soil: indirect evidence, c.e.c was 10.8 1n 2000, and is now 21.1 -- the increase can only have come from added organic material. The zinc readings are from the same tester: A&L Great Lakes. And there wasn't lead mining -- this is Bloomfield Township, for those familiar with the area. Thanks for all the suggestions though. Regards, Peter.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

Hi All, but wouldn't a folliar test prove out any zinc-boron excess? A&L probably does that test too. Proof's in the pudding they say. My 2 cents. Best regards to all.


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RE: Excess Zinc and Boron

c.e.c was 10.8 1n 2000, and is now 21.1 -- the increase can only have come from added organic material.
Okay, I'll buy that.

You never said how much the zinc increased or how it was extracted (again, this is just for giggles because I guarantee you don't have a zinc toxicity problem). I'm also still wondering how boron was extracted. It should say on the data sheet what method was used or the lab can answer that question. It makes a big difference in how the data is interpreted.
Pagardner - yes, if there are symptoms showing, tissue analysis is a good way to confirm whether or not those or other elements are an issue. However, the OP hasn't mentioned any problems with plants. Without any symptoms, I wouldn't spend the money testing healthy tissue collected from plants that perform well. It's also pretty easy to get tripped up with tissue analysis. All of the reference data is based on particular tissue collected at a particle point in development. If you get the wrong tissue and compare it to the reference data, it can look like you have excesses and deficiencies that aren't really there.


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