So, recipe:

Take 1 tablespoon of rye flour and put in 1 gallon of water. Wait 2-3 days untill it become WHITE colour.
Shake it sometimes. That's all.

The stuff is called on Russian KWAS and can be used diluted in water in MANY ways for plants:
1. Watering
2. Sprinkling
Very usefull as fertiliser and for pest control.
I think it's the same stuff as activated "EM"
But it's FREE.

I tried it on home plants. It works GREAT !

It will be interesting to see if anyone knows what beneficial plant bacteria and nutrients are produced by a concoction of rye flour!

Dr. Higa certainly is a happy-looking attractive man on that website!

I use rye flour instead of molasses, but I claim that KWAS has the same abilities as EM. So, KWAS can be used everywhere where EM is implemented.

It will be interesting to see if anyone knows what beneficial plant bacteria and nutrients are produced by a concoction of rye flour!

Beneficial bacteria in KWAS are lacto bacteria, purple non-sulfur bacteria (under the question) and yeasts. Nutrients in concoction are lactic acid (mainly), vitamins and plenty of carbohydrates unknown to science.

Lactic acid produced by lacto-bacteria dissolve minerals in soil and thus make benefit to the plants. Purple nonsulfur bacteria is capable to fix atmospheric nitrogen. The whole bouquet of bacterias and what they produce (the byproducts of their metabolism) suppress many decease microbes such as fungus fusarium.

Thus, although the content of the KWAS is carbohydrates, microbes in it produce a plenty of food for the plants.
I think so.
Resultes are really amazing!

I knew this recipe this year from a farmer who said me that he had great resultes with KWAS in his garden during past 2 years almost on everything. I tried it only on indoor house plants. Broad leaf plants gave many new sprouts and increased in size 1.5 times. I watered and sprinkled them with KWAS during a month.
I also discovered that flies fly away from the balcony after sprinkling the KWAS so they don't like it. I collected information about KWAS and compared with what I knew about EM and came to a conclusion that it is almost the same stuff. KWAS is made from rye flour and EM (activated EM)is made from molasses but they both are carbohydrates and have a purpose to make acidic stuff with plenty of lacto-bacteria. KWAS is looking exactly like MILK and is acidic stuff. It can be used for drinking also, but for drinking there are many more advanced recipes.

Unfortunately this year it is too late for me to check it in the garden on full program. So far I rely only on my experience at home.
But I am also interested does anyone use something like KWAS in the garden and what are results?

There was also discussion on this forum about so called BIM. KWAS is similar to the fermented rice water (water after washing a rice), but rice water is exotic for the WEST and Russia and is only a byproduct of rice cooking and can be obtained only in small quantities. Rye flour is much more practical, cheap and unlimited.

So, who has an experience with KWAS (rye flour diluted in the water and fermented during 2-3 days) please let us know.

I did not use it for spraying and did not pay attention for flies. Will do this experiment next year.

You somewhat hooked me when you mentioned it's use for odor removal. A couple years ago I had a carpet that had terrible pet odor and nothing I used to clean the carpet with removed it. I figured I was going to have to replace it, but then I found a product for odor removal that was bacterial. The claim was that watering the product (diluted) into the carpet and left to dry on it's own would 100% remove the odor because the bacteria would consume the organic matter responsible for the odor. I was amazed at how well it worked.

I started using it for other things and found it very effective at odor removal.

Since the stuff is around $35/gallon I would love to know how to make my own as well as understand the science behind it.

For example why do you use rye flour instead of a different type of flour, does it matter at all to the end result?

Thank you for your questions.
I am also interested in science behind EM.
I think that this book is very good introduction to it and I would like to read it also:
http://www.emamerica.com/environment-articles/21-an-earth-saving-revolution-vol-i
Don't forget to look at the Contents!!!

Here is a good video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uf3NHeObmM&feature=related

This more advarnced:
http://www.saion-em.co.jp/saion-e/file_25/file_25.html

Here is EM online database:
http://emrojapan.com/search.php
(it's rather about practice than theory)

I think that scientific basis behind EM is ... scientific.
What I mean?
The roots of EM go into the process of Photosynthes.

Read just this:

Abstract Research has identified the enhancement of photosynthesis,
yield and quality of crops, with the application of EMx, a derivative of
EM. However these studies have been limited to physiological processes.
Hence experiments were conducted to ascertain the antioxidant function
of EMx and investigate the response of plant antioxidant defense system
when Emx is applied as a foliar spray, using spinach as the test crop.
Continued application of EMx resulted in the enhancement of
photosynthesis, while the superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity declined.
This suggested that a small quantity of oxidants were emerging from the
electron transport system within the plant. In addition, the Ascorbate
Peroxidase (APX) activity also declined in the plants. However, the
application of EMx supplemented the chelation of free iron in the plant,
resulting in the accumulation of antioxidant substances. The results
highlight that EMx foliar sprays enhance antioxidant properties and
functions within plants. It also increases the quality of harvested
products.

(from here: http://emrojapan.com/db/a7fca5c76b58676396cda5f8a87d9f71.pdf)

Photosynthes of plants is not pirfect process because it produce oxydants by itself. The cause of this lay in the Oxygen revolution on the Earth long-long time ago and the jump in the Evolution. However this error in Evolution-Revolution is not corrected yet. Oxydants are really harmful for life and they are produced by the plants itself. The only force in the life which act in opposite direction are ... anaerobic photosynthetic microbes which on the contrary consume oxydants and thus restore balance broken by chloroplast photosynthesys. (You see how deeply Dr.Higa lookes in the reasons of environmental problems.)
Without them Life based on chloroplast photosynthesis could come to the dead point for plants and other lifes based on them.
(Friendly, if you want to understand something in this life, you have to study electicity and photo-chemical physics, and put such words as "electron donor" into your daily vocabulary. Do you think it's a joke? Not at all or ... just a little. When I made Winogradsky column I found then that life in it produce electricity energy and can serve as battery. To check the electic properties of microorganisms - spray EM on clothes charged with static electicity. The other checking - see how amasingly it press down the dust which is charged positively. So, EM has electric properties. And where electric there magnetic also but it's another long story(EM-ceramics)).

Well, I have EM at home but I don't use it because KWAS for me works much batter.
How I came to KWAS based on rye...
I tried different flours and meals. Many of them have lacks. Corn meal stinks after 24 hours. Buckwheat is good but smells buckwheat. Rye worked GREAT. Probably soybean meal must work good. But after rye I stopped experiments.
I think that rye flour has ideal proportion of carbohydrates and proteins to make lacto-bacteris proliferate. I think it was the main reason why russians drank KWAS during 1000 years. I thought that if russians don't use any other flour during 1000 years then rye is the best.

Luke, I believe you wanted to pose your question to Valerie_ru.

I found then that life in it produce electricity energy and can serve as battery. To check the electic properties of microorganisms - spray EM on clothes charged with static electicity. The other checking - see how amasingly it press down the dust which is charged positively. So, EM has electric properties.

Wouldn't ordinary water do the same thing?

I was going to try molasses along with the rye flour, but apparently my wife tossed our unsulfured molasses ;)

At the present time my goal is simply to see if I can create a concoction that works to eliminate common household odors as well as the commercial bacterial products.

What I would really like to find is a source of info on what bacteria are actually cultured given the starting material(s), temperature, length of time etc. and the potential uses of them.

One of the issues I have with the entire idea of compost teas is the complete lack of control over what microbiology grows and a complete lack of understanding of what they actually will be suitable for. I am hoping that the idea of fermenting various material is a bit more of a known thing and more controllable so it's easier to test for it's efficacy.

I will check to see if fruit flies will fly away from kwas.
If your KWAS be Yeasty flies will come in. If it be LACTO flies will fly away.
KWAS must not be "bubbling" for using it instead of EM. And must not stink.
LACTO KWAS has white color and without bubbles (carbon dioxide issued by the yeasts).

OK, so if rye flour works well, but the commercial product(EM) uses molasses and it's really about the carbs/sugar, why not use molasses at home?
Molasses will go Yeast direction without special ferment. Rye can go LACTO direction without any ferment. If process came to LACTO direction you’ll see it by WHITE color of KWAS made from Rye.

What I would really like to find is a source of info on what bacteria are actually cultured given the starting material(s), temperature, length of time etc. and the potential uses of them.
If you want take into account all parameters of microbe’s cultivation you have to include in the list the electro-magnetic waves of different range because photosynthetic bacteria in EM use them as like plants but in anaerobic conditions. It is important factor of bacterial domination. That is why I make and keep KWAS in plastic bottles on the light on window-sill. I also don’t make it in metall vessels because metalls do not pass electro-magnetic waves.

If you want take into account all parameters of microbe’s cultivation you have to include in the list the electro-magnetic waves of different range because photosynthetic bacteria in EM use them as like plants but in anaerobic conditions. It is important factor of bacterial domination.

OK, but it is my understanding that lactic acid forming bacteria are not photosynthetic. Am I mistaken?

Likewise, taking into account the electro-magnetic waves in brewing bacteria seems beyond my at home capability to measure/control. This isn't to say it's not relevant or interesting, but if it isn't something I can control/test for at home, it's not practical for me.

Now for a more basic question, are all the benefits to be realized from EM or KWAS essentially due to lactobacteria?

You are not mistaken. Lactic acid forming bacteria are not photosynthetic. But what Dr.Higa discovered is that lacto-bacteria exists in symbiosis with photosynthetic anaerobic bacteria IN NATURE. It is very important discovery. They both work together: lacto-bacteria form lactic acid from glucose and it consumed by photosynthetic bacteria under the lite which issue glucose again (capturing CO2). This cycle is very stable and they together make things which they could not make separately. If you put ONLY lactobacteria in the mud, photosynthetic bacteria will co-unite with them soon.I didn't put photosynthetic bacteria in Winogradsky column but they appeared there. They will appear also in the place where are lactobacteria were introduced (under anaerobic conditions).

Likewise, taking into account the electro-magnetic waves in brewing bacteria seems beyond my at home capability to measure/control. This isn't to say it's not relevant or interesting, but if it isn't something I can control/test for at home, it's not practical for me.

Use ready recipe. EM is also beyond my control because Dr.Higa keeps the technology in secret. KWAS is under my control. And I like experimenting.

Now for a more basic question, are all the benefits to be realized from EM or KWAS essentially due to lactobacteria?

As I said – not only. The right answer – due to symbiosys of lactobacteria and photosynthetic bacteria. EM probably works longer than KWAS. But I believe that they do the same. So, KWAS is good alternative to EM though can be less effective. But it cheap and under the control. And thus is a good recipe for gardening.

EM (and it was said by Higa) has no photosynthetic bacteria after sprinkling in the air because they die in the air(they are anaerobic). So, what is left? Just ... lactobacteria. So, yes, for sprinkling in the air it is no difference what you use - EM or KWAS.

You are not mistaken. Lactic acid forming bacteria are not photosynthetic. But what Dr.Higa discovered is that lacto-bacteria exists in symbiosis with photosynthetic anaerobic bacteria IN NATURE. It is very important discovery. They both work together: lacto-bacteria form lactic acid from glucose and it consumed by photosynthetic bacteria under the lite which issue glucose again (capturing CO2). This cycle is very stable and they together make things which they could not make separately. If you put ONLY lactobacteria in the mud, photosynthetic bacteria will co-unite with them soon.

OK, in a post of yours above you mentioned that the dominant bacteria in this rye flour/water concoction would be lactobacteria (not photosynthetic) and purple non-sulfur bacteria (photosynthetic).

To my reading it appears you are saying that the photosynthetic bacteria (purple non sulfur bacteria) will arise naturally and are largely unavoidable as long as there is some light on the mixture.

Assuming my assumptions above are correct I would ask you what you think the significance of the photosynthetic bacteria is. For odor control are they really necessary or would the lactobacteria alone do the job?

For suppression of plant toxic bacteria are they important or just along for the ride? I am thinking here of bacterial wilt spread by cucumber beetles via their feces.

It is my understanding that lactobacteria have an antibiotic effect in that they are murderous bastards who kill other bacteria for sport. Is this why they are useful for certain disease suppression or is something other than the lactobacteria responsible?

I am really trying to wrap my brain around this whole thing so I appreciate your responses and apologize if I am asking questions you can't answer.

tj

Yes, I think so. And not only visible light but also invisible infrared light which can be in the dark. There are some reasons why I think that purple non sulfur bacteria present in KWAS. As I said, KWAS has WHITE color. I think that this color due to purple bacteria. Why? Lactic acid is colorless liquid. When I keep KWAS in the bottle under the lid it can stand long time without any changes in it and it is fresh and white. If I keep it in the glass on the open air it becomes colorless soon. I think it’s because purple bacteria try to avoid oxygen and move to the bottom of the glass (they don’t like oxygen). I’ll make some advanced experiences to check it again.

Assuming my assumptions above are correct I would ask you what you think the significance of the photosynthetic bacteria is. For odor control are they really necessary or would the lactobacteria alone do the job?

It’s difficult to say exactly. My opinion is that lactobacteria can do the job alone in shot time interval. I think also that lactobacteria couldn’t live long time without photobacteria. But photobacteria support them very well. I noticed one interesting thing. If I keep diluted KWAS in the bottle with open lid it can stink slightly after 3 days. When I close it, so there is not contact with the air, it becomes fresh again (without odors) durin the night. I explain it so – without presence of the air photosynthetic bacteria arise and eliminate N- and S- compounds (odors) which formed by aerobic bacteria when KWAS open to air.
So, keep KWAS closed and in the plastic vessel in the presence of infrareys (they are evrywhere).

For suppression of plant toxic bacteria are they important or just along for the ride? I am thinking here of bacterial wilt spread by cucumber beetles via their feces.

The benefit of lactobacteria – they make lactic acid which kill pathogens. The benefit of photosynthetic – they utilize light an CO2 and gives glucose to lactic bacteria to continue their benefit.

(Though, I still don’t understand why the flies don’t like KWAS.)

It is my understanding that lactobacteria have an antibiotic effect in that they are murderous bastards who kill other bacteria for sport. Is this why they are useful for certain disease suppression or is something other than the lactobacteria responsible?

The are responsible for organic matter decomposition also including such difficult to break stuff as cellulose.

I am really trying to wrap my brain around this whole thing so I appreciate your responses and apologize if I am asking questions you can't answer.

Any questions are wellcome. It help me to clearify the subject also.

Lactobacteria produce anti-oxydants also. This help for plants to struggle against oxydants produced by their photosynthetic system. This altogether enchance the photosynthesis and the health of the plants.
Probably, flies and other pests were created by Nature to "eat" the excess of oxydants produced by plants. If some plant is ill it means that it overproduced oxydants and their smell atract flies to destroy them. So, flies are not only "pests" but also play an important role in destruction of hazardous oxydants in the Oxygenic wourld. Maybe it's the reason why flies don't like EM and KWAS.

KWAS is a way to make Lactobacteria cheaply, quickly, without specific smells and in LARGE quantities. It can stand long time without spoiling, can be added to the watering and sprinkling system and it cost almost nothing.

I came to conclusion by experience that in order to have guarantee result the amount of rye flour must be 1 tablespoon per 1 litre (1/4 gallon) of water. It's better to dissolve it in water further.

So,

1 tablespoon per 1 litre gives guarantee result.

I followed the original instructions which were 1 tablesppon rye flour to 1 gallon water. I had it at room temp for a day or so (68F), but then placed it on a heat mat in my grow area so it's probably 80+F after that.

Valerie_ru, am I to understand that the reason for somewhat cloudy, not white water and a slightly foul odor is I didn't use enough rye flour? Your original post said 1 tablespoon per gallon, but your most recent post suggests 4 tablespoons per gallon.

Anything else I should know before I try again?

So, 1 tablespoon per gallon is not enough in the beginning.
4 tablespoons per gallon definitely works great! It must stay 2-3 days and in the end it must be WHITE like milk and acidic and smell somewhat like milk's whey.
When I add some ready KWAS from previous batch it takes 1 day for ready to use. Otherwise it takes 2-3 days. Shake it sometimes (3-4 times a day). The more it stays the more it odourless. There must be no any foul odors during all the fermentation at all.

I dilute it 5-10 times for sprinkling and watering but I think it is possible to dilute it up to 100 times for sprinkling and watering the plants on large scale.

If your bottle stinks and inflate then your fermentation went on the yeast scenario. Pour it out in drain system.

Sorry again for an unfortunate error in my instructions !!!

"1 tablespoon per 1 gallon" is an example of the degenerative process.
"4 tablespoon per 1 gallon" is an example of the regenerative process.

The material is the same (rye flour), but the processes are different. Why is it so? Evidently, initial consentration of rye flour is important in which direction the process will go. Evidently, there is certain point of bifurcation , say "3 tablespoon per gallon", where the following process is undefinite, unpredictable: put little rye less – the process will be degenerative, little more – regenerative.

It also depends on initial composition of microbial population. It is known from the science that 10% of microbes in Nature are degenerative, 10% are regenerative and others 80% are opportunistic (really neutral but follow for those among degeneratives and regeneratives who are in majority, so under the power of Regeneratives they will be the Regenerates and on the contrary under the power of Degeneratives they will act degeneratively, destructive, being Degenerates). So what? It is possible to convert degenerative process to regenerative one if make shift in the microbial population ( better initially because less regenerative microbes requred). I would compare it with the Western Democracy.

Dr.Higa demonstrated us theoretically and practically that through microbes we can control degenerative and regenerative processes in Nature changing the whole ecosystemes (Higa cleaned a whole Seto Inland Sea in Japan and some rivers) and it is in our hands by means of simple materials such as molasses and rye flour.

Don’t doubt, the results are really AMAZING!
I gave all the links above, and again the amazing link about Seto Inland Sea (7 parts of video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uf3NHeObmM&feature=related

Just comment:
I just have got my bath and followed the advise from here:
http://www.emamerica.com

Advise: Put 1/2 cup of EM into the bath water and this will prevent "rings" in it.

I have followed the advise but I have put 1 cup of KWAS instead of EM in the water. What a wonderful bath I had!!!
And no usual ring on the walls of the bath after drain!

I have another useful implementations of KWAS at home that I already tried but I’ll wait 2-3 days when someone make KWAS at home and post about it.

Just remark: I often use EM instead of EM-1 (trade mark), but I think everybody understand it.

Good luck in making KWAS.
Don't forget to post about it.

Thanks!
Any questions are welcome.

Should the container be open or closed during the process?

I live in South Florida and my garden is in the ground, what is the recommended usage for an outdoor garden? And, if I understand this right, KWAS will also help with pests? I just added rye flour to my shopping list!

Shannon

But remember that EM-1 is more concentrated (more robust) and thus more acidic. I still don't know the acidity of the KWAS. If it's the same as Activated EM, then substitute EM-1 with KWAS in the instructions. Otherwise dilute in the water to equalize acidity in the recipes and I think it would be correct.

I used even not deluted KWAS for sprinkling plants, it caused small damage for leaves of some plants. But 1:10 worked for me without damage. For delicate plants I just sprinkle less liquid on them. It's better to use less consentrations but sprinkle more often.

So, make experiments and observe changes.
On my opinion gardening is a creative process.

Yes. Flies definetly don't like it, I tried it many times.
A week ago I advised to one of my friend to sprinkle his dog against fleas. After he wiped a dog with KWAS they began to jump out immediately and dog had a good night. After 3 times fleas disappeared. Good news!

If it repels flies, I wonder if it would also be effective as a fire ant repellent to drive them away from garden areas?

What does it do in the soil?
First, it already has antioxidant substances. Being sucked by plants it will enhance photosynthetic activity of the plants. Secondly, microbes in KWAS being photosynthetic will make antioxydants in soil continuously. This way they prevent also the loss of carbon from soil because they utilize gas CO2 for photosynthesis. They also prevent the loss of the water. Lactic acid in KWAS is a form of liquid carbon which can go in the soil deeply. I can continue but I’ll stop for now.

Fire ants are exotic to Russia. So, I can’t anwer directly. It seems that all insects don’t like antioxidants. Try it! (And post results here)

Then dilute 5-10 times in water and use for sprinkling and watering. It is possimbe dilute also up to 100-500 times on a large scale. After you have turned the process in the garden into regenerative way it is possible to dilute up to 1000 times. Once microbes in KWAS had established in the garden then no need to use KWAS at all. Or only after stress conditions such as heat weather.

Sure, molasses can work in the same way, the only problem that you don't know how to ferment them. Just add to water and wait? or you need to add something? How long to wait?

I think that it is possible to ferment molasses with kwas, that is - using kwas as ferment.

Here is a recipe for fermenting molasses with EM-1.
http://www.emamerica.com/compost-teas-with-effective-microorganisms
( tab "Activated EM-1")
Since I claim that kwas has the same properties as EM try to use kwas instead of EM in the recipe. Molasses is not popular in Russia for use in the garden, so I can’t try it by myself.

Brief recipe:

To Make 1 liter or quart:
1.Add water to fill 80% of the plastic bottle
2.Then add 50ml (1.7oz) of molasses and 50ml (1.7oz) of EM-1® in the bottle
3.Shake the bottle to dissolve the molasses. Top off with water.
4.Cap the bottle tightly and keep in a warm place.

Just to add: it is easy do determine readiness by the smell. Smell must be not yeasty, but rather sour.

I am sure that fermented molasses is 1000 times more usful in the garden than unfermented.

In support of my piont of view that kwas has photosynthetic bacteria:
I found on the walls of one of my bottle red points which (I know from Winogradsky column) are a colony of Red sulfur bacteria which consume H2S.

There are also interesting thoughts of Dr.Higa on the extremly interesting website bellow. There are some interesting mentions about sordough (bread made with fermented rye flour).

I think that anaerobic fermentation (regenerative force of Nature, an Ocean of processes really) open the door to many interesting experiments in organic gardening with a lot of hope.

It's now too cold for flies and fruit flies here.

I do want to test it for odor removal before too long on a piece of cat pee soaked carpeting.

I think it is the best test!

We need other concepts!

Same for alfalfa soaked in water, etc.

Again, thank you very much!
It's so interesting things!!!

No,it's all right.
The sign of good fermentation is the absence of gasses .
Light tan color is even better than milky color.
Taste it. If it's acidic, it's good. You can keep it at least 1000 years if closed under the lid.
You can begin use this stuff for watering and sprinkling of the home plants and home pets (if pets have bad odour, pests and so on).

I tossed it and purchased a gallon of RO water and added 4 TBS rye flour. It seemed to start getting milky in color, but then went clear. Shaking it made it look like 'rye tea' as you described. It had a sour smell to it, but not real strong.

I did pour it on a carpet area where there is a cat pee odor. It didn't seem to have any effect. In fairness I have used commercial bacterial odor removers that worked really well in every case except this one area. I suspect the problem is the pee in this area is soaked into the floor boards underneath and the liquids I have poured in the area aren't getting deep enough.

If gasses developed, it's not good fermentation. Add some more rye flour.

I doubt I will try this a 4th time so if you feel there is anything I may be missing let me know now please.

What is the size of your TBS, heh?

A level tablespoon.

You use 1 TBS per liter AND you add already finished KWAS to it correct? To start a new batch without KWAS you use 4 TBS, correct?

A liter is roughly 1/4 gallon so my 3/4th gallons is roughly 3 liters. I have added 8 level TBS. The water is RO water.

Should I be OK, or should I add more rye flour?

No, I use 1 TBS per 1 liter without finished KWAS.
I make it in 2-liter bottle and thus put 2 TBS in bottle, add water, close lid and wait 2 days, shaking it sometimes.
After 2 days it is milky liquid.

1 TBS is approx. 33 grammes.

If you put more rye flour it will not be worse.

OK, I have a cup for measuring and I'tell you exactly now.
4 TBS = 8 oz. = 250mL = 150 grammes (rye flour)
1 TBS = 2 oz. = 62 mL = 37.5 grammes.

Double it for sure.

Luke

Heat must be of the room temperature. 10 C is possible but the process will be slow. So, yes, put it closer to wood stove. After the fermenting put in cold place.

If it doesn't ferment right and gets smelly then there are a lot of harmful microbes there. Not only yeast. They are not good in all aspects. They make toxins and oxidants and they are not good for the garden. Fermenting of the rye flour is always right if there is enough rye flour in the water.

Snow is almost here, if I put it on the garden now will it kill the micro organisms or will they just go dormant for the winter?

They will go dormant. But I wouldn’t make it now, I don’t see a sense. It workes immediately on plants.

Can I use urine instead of rain water for fermentation and get the double whammy of nitrogen and bacterium, or should I ferment first then add that to the urine on the compost pile?

No, make it directly according to recipe.
But having ready kwas as an enzyme you can use it for fermenting everything else, including urine. You just have to define ratio by making experiments. Keep in mind the sign of good fermentation: resulting stuff must have no gases – no preasure in closed bottle! If it is so, it may be kept long time. Use it freely in the garden without any risk.

ALWAYS make KWAS covered with lid (ANAEROBIC, without oxigen).

Valerie, would you please post one, and only one formula and exactly how to make it. Those of us living in temperate climates are able to test this over the winter outside. We all need to be working with the same formula. Thanks!

Ratio of rye flour and water 1:10 by volume.
Put rye flour in bottle, add water to top, close under the lid. Shake it. Put in warm place and wait 2 days (24 hours). Shake it from time to time.

Resulting stuff is as white as milk.
It's acidic.
It has no gases.
It is possible to drink it. (Very strong antioxidant).
It can be kept an unlimited time if it's kept without air in bottle.

Use it for sprinkling and watering plants in dilution with water. Possible ratio for dilution are 1:0, 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000.

Hope this help.

But really zakvaska is not needed. It is possible to start making kvas without it, from zero, using just well known ingredients.

There are MANY recipes of kvas but they all are based on anaerobic (and non-alcoholic) fermenting of different combinations of different kinds of grain flours, malt, bread, molasses, sugars, with addition of berries, fruits, herbs, seaweed and even horse-radish in the end.

It is often made sour dough from flours in the start. (Sometimes it's called zakvaska also.)

If you are interested I can translate some recipes from russian web site about kvas when I have time. You can translate it also by yourself from the link bellow.

To understand what is kwas make WHITE kwas I already said.
It's the simplest recipe.
If you want to make it for drinking then pour off it in bottle, add some sugar (teaspoon per cup, no more) or honey, add some berries, close with lid and put in refrigirator.

nandina,

Please, don't forget to post a result of making kwas.

I have made kwas from rye flour and rain water (2 Tbs flour in litre of water) and playing with it. I got mealy bugs on one of my jade, yesterday i have sprayed plant with kwas. Will see reaction of mealy bugs

Food for thoughts...

Thank you for posting this.
There are no mealy bugs here but aphids are widespread.
Will try next season on aphids, caterpillars and colorado beetles.

I observed the reaction of spiders in my home to kwas.
It seems they like it (!).
I spray the ash-tray to prevent the smell of cigarette smoke and keep it on the cupboard. Was I surprised when one day saw that spider had spined a web directly on the ash-tray over cigarette ends.

The other interesting observation is about earthworms. 3 days ago I overwatered a flower-pot occasionally with kvas.
Then I noticed approx. 10 earthworms on the surface of soil. It is now 3-d day and they are still laying lazy on the surface. It seems that they are happy. When touched move quickly. Just waiting the level of moisture being decreased. Water holding capacity of the soil increased significantly. No any bad smells from soil too, no any stagnation. And flowers don't show any sign of withering.

Have you made kwas evetually?
Do you need a help?

To add interest to it I shall say that in the cover of this sourdough bread (very common to Russia) scientists found a lot of purple non sulfur bacteria now. They produce a lot of oxidants in the advertise you see on the right.. hm.. Welch's.. Right..?

Results
Tan milky color, slight sour dough aroma, slightly bubbly, if shaken its more fizzy, tastes like flat sourdough soda, not much gas but some if shaken. I dont really know what acid tastes like but it tastes a little like vinegar, maybe a little bit sour.

I'm hoping this will help get rid of the fungus gnats that are over running my agastaches right now. I've got some BT dunks soaking in water to try next.

I sprayed kvas over the places where there were many flies. They were flying away.
I also water my home plants with kvas. No any gnats.
But earth worms feel themselves fine. Spiders in some places of my home are also feel themseves good after spraying with kvas.

I doused a pepper plant with it in hopes of combating fungus gnats. I'm not sure it worked but I could swear the plant looks twice as thick now as it did before. I think i've killed the gnats with some light dish soap and neem oil spray.

I'm reading that Kwas/Kvas is used as a tonic/probiotic in Russia. I guess its safe to drink but the yeast factor is a little scary. Should it smell very sour?

There must be no any gases when making kvas.
It is important to make it closed so that there must be no contact with air. It's better thus to make it in plastic bottles, if to make a little.
The second rule is that if you put less rye flour than needed then it will have bad odour and be really bad. If make so in bottle it blow up. Pour it out. No less than 1 tablespoon with hill per 1 liter of water. It may depend on water, quality of rye flour and so on. So, first make with ratio 2 tbsp/1 liter just to understand what is kvas. Then find the ratio experimentally.

There are yeasts in kvas, but those yeasts are "anaerobic" because they can live without air/oxygen.("Normal" common yeasts are aerobic and need oxygen.) They go hand by hand with lactobacteria which considered anaerobic.
So, microorganisms in kvas is mixture of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in one bottle. The whole consortium of microorganisms can live and work without oxigen. Thus they easily spread in any anaerobic environment such as soil.

If you make kvas open to air, then aerobic yeasts arise quickly and then pathogenic toxic aerobic bacteria continue decomposition of rye flour. As a result you will have poison, not kvas.

So, make kvas closed from air.

Well i'm probably overdoing it. I shook the bottle 2-3 times a day and opened it up to get fresh air in. I'll try another batch with less air and less shaking. I'm thinking this batch has gone sour! It reeks big time and the plant I watered with it smelled for at least two days.

While I cannot vouch for any benefit from KVAS at this point I can tell you I made it (attempted to make it) a few times and it's only after I added a lot of flour to the water and kept it sealed that I didn't end up with a foul smelling, milk jug bulging concoction.

My current batch has been sitting undisturbed for around a month in the closet. It has an odor, but not the foul kind you noticed and it isn't threatening to explode the milk jug in the closet ;)

I am not sure it's possible to add too much flour so err on the side of too much rather than too little.

It did not help with the fungus gnat situation. Nothing has helped with the fungus gnat problem. I'm about to go nuclear on them.

A couple pounds of rye flour (or maybe a hundred square feet of garden space given to rye) could make hundreds of gallons of kvas and maybe produce a year's worth of food for a person?

Yes, it's well known thing.
But really in both ways you mentioned the nitrogen from weeds is lost (thrown) into atmosphere. FPE is a way not to loose it.

I will post results.

I highly recommend this web-side in the provided link below to define concentrations of kvas for seeds innoculation and seedlings watering in order to escape errors.

Microbial population of kvas is 60% lactobacteria and 30% yeasts. It's exactly according to numerous researches of microbiology of kvas. Phototrophic bacteria as in EM-1 are under the question, but it is possible. I know one recipe of kvas that I think has phototrophic bacteria. I' ll tell about it later.

So, kvas has 90% of what is in EM-1.
And I think also that main "working horses" in EM-1 are lactobacteria and yeasts, and phototrophic bacteria play a supportive role in EM-1 for longer shelf-life.

What is important, kvas (and activated EM-1) deteriorate with time, nevertheless. It means that aceto - bacteria appear and with time kvas becomes more acidic with aceto-acid also known as vinegar. Thus it's important to keep kvas in cold place and no longer than 30-45 days while lacto-bacteria are still great in numbers. It's better to use fresh kvas when they are mostly active. It's not a problem because kvas can be made quickly and easily when it's needed.

How long time Nandina kept her FRF?

Valerie, is it ok to dilute it less than 5x? Say, 1:1 or 2:1?

Also, I've been using compost tea with great results in the past....can I continue to use it on these plants or should I stop for the sake of the experiment?

Compost tea? IMO, compost tea (both aerobic and anaerobic) is a nonsense in the gardenig.

If enumerate the benefits of kvas, it could be a list of one page long, at least.
So, the rule - use kvas less concentrated but more often.
Possible concentrations: 1:0, 1:10, 1:100, 1:500, 1:1000, 1:10000 (for ponds). 1:100 - 1:500 is mostly suitable to apply directly on plants. 1:10 for making bokashi (instead of compost). 1:0 for drinking.

Recipe for drinking:
1) Make kvas.
2) Add sugar (or something sweet) in ratio 1 tablespoon per litre. Add skin of citric fruit: orange, lemmon or mandarine. Keep 2-3 days in sunny or warm place.
3) Put in refrigerator.
Excelent drinking in sunny day. But it's mechanism is the same as for plants: antioxidants. Ultraviolet rays in sun's light make a storm of oxidants in our body. That's why we feel ourselves badly in summer. We can revert situation drinking antioxidants. Kvas is mostly cheap.

Bacterial population of ACT is said to be good, "diversity of life". Realy, they are very active. So active that as a fire burn organic matter of the soil and it goes from soil into armosphere. They left oxidants (free radicals) in soil and then die after the "eating". Nonsense.

And so on.

There are no proved impressive results from using Compost Teas. Both CT and ACT. And there are a lot of signs of pseudoscience and cheating. It's enough for me not to use it.

Let's take Kvas, on contrary. Each molecule of glucose decompose into 2 molecules of lactic acid. And it decomposes completely, that is all molasses is decomposed to lactic acid. Really, it's the cheapest way to get lactic acid. Lactic acid in soil kill pathogens and thus open the way for probiotic microorganismes which are supressed by pathogenic microbes. Probiotic microorganismes then born more kinds of other probiotic microorganises and so on. So, lactic acid in soil start a long chain of healthy changes in microbial population of the soil. This is called regeneration.

This recipe must help with control of vast majority of pests.
The modified recipe is better:
Take 4 tablespoons of rye flour and 1 tablespoon of sugar (or 2 tablespoons of molasses). Add water to make the mixture just liquid, maybe 1 cup. After 24 hours it will have sour smell and "arise" (increase in volume). It is called sour dough. Then dilute it in 1 gallon of water and continue fermentation 1 day more.
The resulting "beverage" is acidic. Add 1 tablespoon (or teaspoon) of red (or black) pepper and/or 1 clove of garlic and/or aloe and continue fermentation 1 day more.
Then use it for sprinkling pests in dilution 1:20, 1:100 or even 1:500 and 1:1000. Repeate again if infestation has not stopped.

To enforce it is possible to add 1/2 cup of vodka and 1/2 cup of vinegar in the end of fermentation (after pepper and garlic have been fermented). Then keep in refrigerator closed (without oxygen).

Main reason why it works is antioxidants. Pepper, garlic and aloe are known for their high amount of antioxidants. If you know something else then add it too.

It may seems strange but what is concidered as "pests" don't like antioxidants and "beneficials" like them. It seems to be true. I tried it. Flies and gnuts don't like it exactly but earthworms and spiders love it very much. I don't know why.

I also use it (without pepper and garlic) in bathroom to control fungus (moulds). Works great! They stopped. Now I sprinkle just once a weaks. May be once in a month is enough too.

Sure, I can hunt for and drown them individually in soapy water at dusk or dawn but really --- how much better to spray away, helping the plants and killing or repelling the slugs. All without harming earthworms).

Any thoughts anyone?

It's a good idea to have barrel in the garden and put weeds there. Then use FPE (fermented plant extract) for sprinkling and watering plants. So, the more weeds the better.

Over the past months I have mixed up numerous variations of your rye flour/sugar formula. Cutting to the bottom line...I have found the best one to be 6 tablespoons of rye flour, 2 tablespoons of unsulphured molasses to one gallon of water, capped, allowed to sit on counter for 3 days, shaken often, used immediately. For some reason using dried molassess did not give the same result as the liquid form.

Are you sitting down, Valerie? I have been using the above formula, full strength, not diluted, every other week with interesting results; healthy container plants which are glossy, taller and denser than normal and the veggies are very tasty. As the weather has warmed (90 degrees here all this week) I have been watching closely for problems developing in the heat. So far none. Time will tell. As my vegetable seeds have been sprouting I am treating one half of them with the full strength formula. The emerging treated seedlings are more vigorous.

So, this is my report to date. Some reading this may want to experiment in a limited way until we can experiment with using the formula full strength during a full growing season.

BTW, I am having difficulty with your premise that antioxidants discourage insects and their resulting damage. At the moment I do not have any bug problems to play around with the idea. But, I would guess that we have some readers who will test this idea on their gardens and animal barns this summer. Green tea is also an antioxidant. Wonder what would happen if three green tea bags were steeped in 2 cups of warm water for an hour and then this sprayed full strength on the potato bugs or whatever. Worth a try along with the rye flour trials.

My experiment is going on 3 weeks right now with inconclusive results. I will try your formula with some other plants.

6 tbsp rye flour + 2 tbsp molasses + 1 gallon water, sit 3 days.

Yes, it seems to be the golden mean. Less than 4 tbsp rye flour may spoil, 8 is too much (not economical), 6 is best!
It is possible to pour out the liquid in separate container to separate from sediment. Without airspace in the top and under the tap it may be kept long time, some months. Sediment may be used for next batch as starter to make fermentation faster. When I use sediment from previous batch I make sometimes fermentation during 1 day.

It is also possible to add molasses after fermentation again in the same amount and during 1-3 days it doubles the amount of bacteria. Then it is possible add molasses again. And again. And again. But this is details.

Well, good news!

As for antioxidants, if green tea has antioxidants in it then it’s good idea to try it against pests. If it works then it’s more good idea do dissolve (ferment) green tea bags (or tea leaves) in kvas. It will give more antioxidants. It's just for making experiments. Tea is not cheap and thus not practical. Ordinary weeds works the same.

Hope this topic will continue.

How much of not diluted kvas have you used per container (please include size of container)?
Did you use some other fertilizer?
What kind of mix do you use in your containers?
Any other details?
Thank you

Valerie, thanks for the web site. You have given us a lot of ideas to trial this summer.

People often connect fermentation with alcohol.
But not all fermentations are alcoholic.
There are many kinds of non-alcoholic fermentations. They are done mainly by lacto bacteria but sometimes by bacillus subtillis or/and by some kinds of fermenting fungus which don't make alcohol. Japanees' Miso is an example of it.

Kvas is a non-alcoholic beverage.

Now that you've added molasses, does the color change after 3 days? I've started a batch of your recipe and it's obviously brown. The kvass I've been making without molasses turns milky white like Valerie said it would. What should I be looking for and smelling for when it's ready (and also to make sure I've done nothing wrong)?

Vicky, what recomendatins?
Water and sprinkle. It's all recomendations.
When kvas stands long time it becomes more acidic. So, dilute it more in water. Fresh kvas is better for watering, old for sprinkling (after dilution). For watering just add to water. This also can help with pests (such as aphids) because plants suck antioxidants through roots. Antioxidants repel pests, improove immune system of plants and enhance photosynthesis by killing oxidants (such as super dioxide - a byproduct of plant's photosynthesis).