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farms in trouble
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Posted by pagardner 5 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 11:55
Hi All, How would you handle this farm dilemma? The farm is two hundred plus acres. It does not have access to manure or compost without purchasing it. Therefore none has been applied in recent years. The history has been plowing and heavy lime usage under mostly corn without rotation.
Recently for the last three years the farm has been no-till with corn soybean rotation. Herbicides are the cover killer of choice. To walk on this land is like walking on concrete and the soil emits an off white color. Planting drill cuts are still very visible after seeding in late August and early September. Clumps of ground still line the edges of the cuts. The clumps are hard as rocks. Diverse cover crops are spindly and failing. Winter Radish, where it is growing well, is growing with a third to half the root above ground indicating extreme hard pan.
Thursday myself and about thirty farmers walked the fields with a salesman expounding the benefits of cover crops and no-till. Several of us agreed there are benefits but this farm needs major surgery. This ground has no OM left in it at all.
Last night we received nearly an inch of rain the first in a week. This morning I drove by and as suspected much of it is under water.
Less than three miles away is a borough which collects the leaves and piles them in the park, literally a mountain of maple and oak leaves. Yesterday afternoon I called the borough to inquire about them. This morning they called back to say that a mushroom company has been for all these years the only interested person. They said that the farmer could gladly have them next year but to make arrangements now. Sounded positive.
There are thirty-five farms in the neighborhood about to go under. What would you do to rejuvenate the soil?
Appreciate your thoughts and comments. Best regards. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: farms in trouble
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- Posted by luke_oh zone 5 NE Ohio (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 13:51
| Do you plan to purchase the farm? |
RE: farms in trouble
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Hi Luke, I do not have any interest in purchasing a farm of that size, much more than I could handle. However, it bothers me to see family farms fail after generations have had it.
That being said, the above stated land problems are extremely common along what is called the 222 corridor here in Pa.
If it became yours how would you attempt to solve the problems? Thank you in advance for your help. |
RE: farms in trouble
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| Lloyd will have some real-life, first-hand advice to give you. I suspect he'll suggest that leaves or leaf compost needs to be tilled into the soil. It's too bad those leaves aren't available. |
RE: farms in trouble
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| Pa, Tillage of the subsoiling nature would seem most beneficial. Serious consideration must be given to deep rooting green manures would further contribute to breaking up the obvious compaction and hardpan. Red Clover, Lupine, Radish and Turnips are initial considerations. A high biomass combination of Rye and Sweet Clover can be put into the rotation to jump the organic matter. A detailed soil analysis should identify other contribution nutrient factors. A soil profile will also reveal geologic influences. This farm need a serious plan that may see result in 3 - 5 years. The compaction has revealed the lack of water penetration which also means their is no air movement. An aggressive plan with subsoiling would be faster than a top down plan. A deliberate rotation plan can restore the structure. The green manures should be complimented with some sort of manure input; the animal source input essential to restoring the soil ecosystem. Total elimination of chemical inputs enhance the potential of hastening restoration of this farm to a productive enterprise. In its present state there is no support for livestock inclusion in the farm plan. An external source must be located, even a slaughter house waste could serve; an acre could be utilized for on-farm composting. It is quite apparant that the on-farm expertise has not passed between generations. Like many conventional farms they have fallen under the direction of non-farmers as to what and how they grow crops. Yes it is a mean task and will be expensive, but it possible. Very interesting post. |
RE: farms in trouble
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Afternoon, thank you for your thoughts. I did not think of it at the time, but, the borough also has sewage sludge. I know many will baulk, but, this municipality at least does not have industry that could be problematic. While we all know consumer by products would exist, a one time application may be of tremendous help too and available sooner than later.
I plan to visit with the farmer tomorrow morning to offer what the borough told me about the leaves and ask if I may take a soil sample to send to Midwest Labs. I'll copy him too and the forum.
Again thank you all, I.ll be back here on Monday. I have a dozen fruit trees to plant this weekend with good weather called for. Best regards. |
RE: farms in trouble
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| Pa, The borough should have an analysis of the sludge. Larger population and industrialized areas would be a definite no on the sludge. I recall one study that influence regulations determined 28 years are required for edible crops. The problem was soil assimulation of the toxins and deterioration within the soil. There is nothing stopping the farm from producing a fiber crop. |
RE: farms in trouble
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- Posted by pt03 3 Southern Manitoba (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 19:41
| If the soil is as depleted as thought then a lot of time and work will be involved to get all 200 acres into better shape. It won't happen quickly and some equipment will absolutely be required so add that and the associated costs into the expense column with very little if any income. If the land is for sale it is unlikely the existing owner will do much to improve the land. If I had to start from scratch, I'd pass on it unless I was 20 years younger. :-) Lloyd |
RE: farms in trouble
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A mountain of leaves are not going to go very far. There is no easy soulution
If it was mine I might start with deep tillage I mean a 6 foot deep ripper on a 500 horse tractor followed with a chisel plow put it in alfalfa hay for a few years when that started to get weedy overseed and rent as pasture But its not mine and I have no idea how that would work in your part of the world the main question is does it bother the farmer as much as you? |
RE: farms in trouble
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- Posted by terran zone10/Sunset20 CA (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 21, 09 at 5:36
| The first thought that came to mind was the farmers in your area need to get off the hard agrochemical drug habit. This company has a track record and has helped farmers do just that - transition into biological farming instead of chemical farming. http://www.aglabs.com/soilconsulting.html From your description of the land, I would suspect that it will not be possible for them to go cold turkey to get off of the drugs. Terran PS I am not affiliated with International Ag Labs in any way. |
Here is a link that might be useful: A Biological Approach To Agriculture
RE: farms in trouble
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- Posted by luke_oh zone 5 NE Ohio (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 21, 09 at 15:07
| Pagardener, This is a touchy subject. Most farmers that I know are not open to anyone telling them how to operate their farm. Even with all of the changes to an organic rich system this does not ensure that the farm will be profitable. I would think that many farmers do not have the resources or time to make the improvements. Unfortunately, this is the destiny of thousands of small farms across the country. Pa, it bothers me too to see all of the small family farms going down. This is not necessarily the result of past generations passing on farming expertise. You mentioned that there are 35 farms in the area that are about to go under. I suspect that soil conditions are not necessarily the reason. I offer no solutions, I wish I could. Luke |
RE: farms in trouble
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Good morning everyone, you are correct that farmers do not like to be told 'how to do it'. Therefore I did not when I met with him and his son this morning. He and his son remembered me from the Thursday field day so the ice was broken.
What seems to have happened is a chain of events. First high comodity prices set up by unreal oil prices. Many local farms went after the higher corn prices with expectations of a price somewhere in between the high and previous average. Bio-diesel plants in the area were all the talk, since then one went bankrupt with the other on hold.
Second NPK, lime was the tradition and for many still is. The higher prices for chemicals is eating away at their margins. Herbicide, pesticide costs are escalating too.
Third, the low milk price is the straw that is breaking their backes. Nobody should have prices set by government below the cost to produce it.
No business can run in the red forever, except maybe Uncle Sam.
When taking a soil sample this morning the top two inches were somewhat soft from there down the soil is without any doubt compacted. Sort of a yellowish tan color.
I am familiar with AgLabs and have my own Brix Refractometer. There are other noteworthy companies too.
This farm has a long way to go. The son seems to have the energy to try to save it from sale.
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Happy Thanksgiving. |
Conservation payments?
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| There is a government program where farmers get paid to put their land into a soil conservation state. I met a guy who worked as a river rafting guide who had a farm in Maryland in this program. That could help the farmer pay the taxes, but if there's a mortgage debt, I doubt it would pay the mortgage. |
RE: farms in trouble
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| Economically it is bad news. PA was mostly dappled forest initially, so I suspect that that is the direction to head in for recovery. The soil is turning to hardpan from abuse, the solution is to work organic matter in, manure is one form, but cow manure especially tend to have most of the fiberous tissue broken down. Char is being looked at as a soil amendment in the energy academic community, but it takes some know how and equipment to make enough for a 200 acre farm (a home garden is a matter of a 55 gallon steel drum and a 5 minute phone call). An intensively rotated pasture is probably the answer, but it is hard given the economic implications. You really have to either do a lot of research into what you can market, and hope you don't get bad information from some commodity association, or make a lucky guess. "Organic" might not even be the answer, a forest can be used to soak up some judiciously applied NPK and then soil friendly organic methods can be used to make that stored carbon in the trees into a living farm once again. I hate to say it, but if this person doesn't have a source of income to pour into this farm then they should consider getting out of farming. |
RE: farms in trouble
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- Posted by terran zone10/Sunset20 CA (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 25, 09 at 19:58
| Maybe, this article will help your conversation progress. Can Organic Farming "Feed the World"? http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/~christos/articles/cv_organic_farming.html |
Here is a link that might be useful: Can Organic Farming
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