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abunari

Worried about Ibc tote having chemicals

abunari
9 years ago

I finally saved enough money and bought an ibc tote for my garden watering . I asked the guy what it was used for and he said some water based liquid.....well he delivered it and I started reading the label and it says urethane acrylic dispersion!

So now I'm freaking out. All the ingredient says is contains : amine. That's it. I have searched and searched and one place says its non toxic another says it is depending on type of amine.....what do I do.

Can I simply pour 100 gallons of bleach or vinegar in it and clean it out or is all hope lost?

I can't afford another one and it is the only one close I can find in my area.

Comments (18)

  • Kimmsr
    9 years ago

    Theoretically containers of any kind that once held chemicals of any kind, in the United States, must be cleaned of any residue before being reused and in some places selling them to the general public is forbidden.
    Determine what the laws in your state are and whether the person that sold it to you is reputable and then determine if this is something you want to use.

  • abunari
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ok I feel slightly better knowing that laws require them to be cleaned out before resale. It does not have the red triangle indicating it held a hazardous chemical. Someone told me to fill it with bleach water and that will help clean any residue out also. I will have to look into regulations in arkansas on this matter thanks

  • renais1
    9 years ago

    In our area, these containers are not washed out prior to being resold. There are both food grade and non-food grade containers sold, but there is no tracing of what was in the containers previously. Some of the containers I looked at seemed to have been sitting around for quite a while before being sold, and had deposits that would have been challenging to clean out given the limited interior access. At my workplace, these containers were often delivered containing plastic processing precursor chemicals. A cleaning to make such containers food safe would be very difficult and problematic. Such containers might have been suitable as water storage containers, however. One should just be careful not to use the water where you would care about contact with previous contents. The link has further info about the containers, and some prices. When I looked this summer, I did find some containers for sale used for about $119. They were not food safe, had not been cleaned out, and would only have been suitable for water storage where contact with the stored water was not an issue. I was looking at these for passive solar thermal storage, but opted to use other containers. Food safe containers I saw were around the same price as the chemical containers, but were not cleaned out, and I felt would be even harder to clean to avoid lots of algae and bacterial growth. There were places that offered clean containers for sale, but they could not guarantee what the previous contents had been. As the link says, "These totes are you used to ship a wide variety of products. We sell them as either âÂÂfood gradeâ or âÂÂnon-food gradeâÂÂ. Food grade means they previously contained a food product. NOTE: We do not know for sure what each tote previously contained. We just relay to purchasers what the previous owner said was shipped in the containers." I would go ahead and use the tote for water storage where the water either will not be dispensed (like thermal mass), or where it will be dispensed and you do not care about some trace of the previous products being applied; cleaning would be a major pain, in my opinion, and would yield uncertain results.
    Renais

    Here is a link that might be useful: Used totes

  • abunari
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ..I wonder how much if at all, if any of the chemical is really leached out over time.

  • renais1
    9 years ago

    Working in a very heavily regulated environment for many years, with both state and federal inspectors generally present, we would "clean" containers like this all the time. kimmsr is correct that containers need to be cleaned, but the cleaning is not what you might expect, especially if the container was not going to be reused for chemical transport and storage. Few containers were reused for chemicals because of the difficulty of obtaining an adequate cleaning. For a urethane acrylic (which is often used as a sealant, for instance on cars or surfaces), cleaning would mean pouring a bit of water in the container to mix with remaining liquid, draining that mix in an industrial drain, and then disposing of the container as non-hazardous trash. These containers would be a real pain to thoroughly clean for reuse for many chemicals; there is not an easy way to treat all the surfaces. Cleaning just means getting ready to put them in the trash. Fortunately for the users, there is a market for the used containers so they don't need to be sent to a landfill. However, as noted above, there is generally no guarantee as to suitability for a given purpose. If the container did have urethane acrylic, it was probably air dried after a water rinse, and that was it. These materials in general do not leave particularly dangerous residues, and are not likely to have dangerous outgassing properties, or water contamination issues. Look at it the same as getting a plastic bucket of floor sealant at the store, using it for your floor, rinsing it, and then using it for water. The ibc is just a bigger bucket. Just don't use it to store water that you would use or have in contact with things you eat.
    Renais

  • Kimmsr
    9 years ago

    This is problematic since the purpose of the tote was to store water for use in the garden and it is not suitable for that.

  • abunari
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes indeed I was planning on using the water I eventually store in it to water by vegetable garden. Sounds like it's not a good idea so far right.

  • renais1
    9 years ago

    If the container looked fairly clean to you when you received it (no excess liquid inside, not filled with overpowering fumes...), and you rinse it with water (spray sides down and drain), I would use it for ground watering myself. Urethane acrylic is found in many things we contact everyday, and I'd be confident that any tiny residue would not impact anything in the soil. I might not spray the plants themselves with this water.
    Renais

  • Kimmsr
    9 years ago

    For an organic grower not being able to spray water on plants is a problem since water, sometimes, can be a help in control of some insect pests and plant diseases. If what is in that tote might be a problem being sprayed on plants then it is not acceptable spraying it on the soil, either.

  • renais1
    9 years ago

    The water from the container can be applied to soil without spraying, allowing the water to flow onto the surface of the soil. This is the same method used when applying gray water to crops; the water is not bad for the soil, you just want to avoid getting it on the plant top. Most rainwater and water storage systems operate at very low pressure, so allowing the water to flow gently onto the soil is often not an issue. If water is needed to spray off pests, that water can be obtained from a more conventional source.
    Renais

  • abunari
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I found a link to the msds sheet for the specific container. I'm not seeing anything toxic according to Osha.... Maybe all hope isn't lost. I left a message with the company also.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Eps

  • Kimmsr
    9 years ago

    Renais1, if there is a chance that what was in that tote is, or was, toxic then for an organic grower applying any water from that tote to the soil or plants or anything else is not permitted. If the material that was in that tote is non toxic then the tote may be used.
    Organic growers do not, knowingly, apply toxic materials to any part of the environment.

  • abunari
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Exactly. The msds doesn't state it is anything toxic but I'm no chemist. Wish I knew one lol

  • Jack Anderson
    7 years ago

    If you have the SDS forms you should be able to determine how hazardous the tote was and most of the information can be found by a google search. There should be some sort of rating on the forms or if the tote still has it's placard you can figure it out. I would honestly just buy your totes from a certified dealer like www.ibctoterecycling.com or the http://www.thecarycompany.com/  to be safe...

  • HU-849447117
    5 years ago

    I've got several IBC totes as well and have been looking into non-toxic liners. Here's one I found. I'm sure there are others . . .
    https://www.jmesales.com/freedom-manufacturing-llc-fda-compliant-composite-tote-liner/

    Good luck!

  • HU-849447117
    5 years ago

    I've been looking into liners as well. Here's one on Amazon https://amzn.to/2Lo3RHS  and here's an installation video that goes with it. Doesn't look too hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3AtbMsoRDw

    Good luck!

  • S Porter
    11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    Maybe try using a liner…