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Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Posted by aachenelf z5 Mpls, MN (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 15:44

For some reason, I've always been under the assumption these are difficult to grow or at the very least difficult if you don't have the perfect spot for them. Anything less than perfect and they will croak in short order.

I haven't heard them mentioned all that much on this forum which only leads me to believe the above is true. Yet, I've seen a few threads from folks who rave about the whole lot of 'em and the photos of flowers have been spectacular.

So, am I wrong? Or are there tons of closeted Hellebore growers out here, but they just don't talk about them?

Kevin


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Hellebores are very tough plants -- in fact I might go so far as to list them among the toughest perennials. Just look at their survival strategy: They choose to flower either during the dead of winter (H. niger) or in late winter/very early Spring (H. hybridus and others) which means they actively grow during a time when most plants wouldn't dare try such a thing. For the most part, they tolerate and even thrive in pretty rough conditions (cold, lack of water, lack of sunlight, lack of soil nutrients).

There is a separate hellebores forum, which is probably why you don't see much mention of them here.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Well, it could also be because Hellebores have their own forum here on GW! ;-D Not sure it is very busy though...

I know what you mean. I've had that "those seem like they would be soooooo hard to grow!" moments with various plants too. Sometimes they do turn out hard to grow, but most often I read misleading info or simply got it stuck in my head for some reason that they were when there was no basis for that assumption.

Guess I'm not really the one to comment on Hellebores, as I am still trying to figure them out myself. First one I bought in Seattle was H. argutifolius, in my early gardening days when I didn't know there was such a thing as a Lenten Rose NOT hardy in my zone ;-) Needless to say it never did much. Couple years ago I tried again and bought a 'Metalic Blue Lady' in Seattle. I think it may have resented the slight dip I planted it in, or they may requite more sun than the half shade I planted it in. It acutally dwindled in size, which I have never heard of a hellebore doing before, LOL.

I also started some plants from 'Black Beauty' seeds and they are doing well in another area. Hoping it fares better, cuz' I could see myself buying a few more Hellebores in the future (wink, wink) ;-)
CMK

Here is a link that might be useful: Hellebore forum GW


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Yup, that's where I saw all the wonderful photos - The Hellebore Forum.

I also forgot to say, I did try them once, but they all died. Someone sent me a whole bunch of good-sized seedlings, but they didn't survive a year. But they also came from Georgia and I'm in MN and I have no idea if the plants were even hardy in my zone.

CMK

I know what you mean. For some reason I never bothered with delphiniums because I just assumed they would be "difficult". Then last year someone started a thread about them and I suddenly remembered my grandmothers huge stands of ancient plants. Delphs are now on my spring order list.

Kevin


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I have a half dozen or so various ones picked up on half-price sales here and there over the past few years. When I saw my DIL's gorgeous plants 5-6 years ago, I decided to give them a try. All are planted at the northeast corner of my house where they get partial sun. They seem happy and those flowers in early, early Spring are a most welcome sight. I haven't found them to be very labor-intensive. Growing near them are other part-sun perennials, including hosta, coral bells & lady's mantle. Part of the reason they're often considered difficult to grow could be because they grow very slowly. So far one of the best features is they need little to no attention/care.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Kevin,

Hellebores are borderline hardy in Zone 4, which is where you really are, right? If you do plant them, I wouldn't do it with seedlings but I would instead invest (yes, they are expensive(!), so it is an investment) in some well-established plants because I understand the winters up there can be pretty brutal.

--Scott


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

  • Posted by mxk3 z5b/6 MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 20:15

No, you're not - I don't have any, either


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I started off with inexpensive Hellebores (for instance, garden centers and even places like Lowe's sometimes have them on sale late in the season). I have a couple of Barry Glick's varieties that I found somewhere cheap. All have done well and seem very tough, which is good since they have to overcome inferior clayey soil in my front bed which gets a little sun but is mostly bright shade. They've reseeded well too and hopefully this spring I'll be able to dig up and replant the most vigorous young seedlings. I enjoy the late winter and spring flowers. I'm still not hooked enough to pay a premium for expensive varieties.

Maybe I'll get up the courage to order seeds, which are supposedly problematic if they aren't fresh and given just the right combination of warm/cold stratification.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I did try them once, but they all died.

==>> BINGO!!! ..

they are on my list of foo foo carp that does not grow.. and i would bet its my sand ... they were even on irrigation ...

and as to the reply above.. who would list them among the toughest perennials... i say.. PSHAW ... and you can write that down.. lol ... [how indignant do you have to be to yell PSHAW ... lol]

see my post on plants left behind ... life's too short

ken


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Scott,

Well, according to the charts I am a zone 4, but as I said in a previous thread in my little corner of the city, it's behaved like zone 5 for over a decade. However, it seems like I'm finding more and more listings in catalogs stating some at least are hardy to zone 4. On the other hand, I have never seen these sold at local nurseries I've been to. Maybe I should take a clue from that.

Kevin


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

-Eric, give it a try! I found my 'Black Beauty' VERY easy to grow from seed.

You are right that Hellebore seed is supposed to lose viability reasonably fast. I got mine directly from a GW trader, 'hot off the pod' you might say ;-), so that wasn't an issue. I planted them as soon as I got them (start of July I think, of 2011) in a roomy container with nice soil and lightly covered with grit. Early in 2012, with snow still on the ground, they sprouted. Practically no work on my part starting them, aside from watering of course.

You might try asking on the Hellebore or The Seed Exchange forum on GW around harvest time. Or if you don't do trading, you can buy seed from Pine Knot Farms (seed info very bottom of page). They are rather $$, but it is a well respected company, so I am sure you would have good luck if you bought seed from them.

-Kevin...sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread any ;-)
CMK


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Ken, you have given up on so many plants, how do you have any left in your garden? (I kid of course). Hellebores are generally regarded as tough plants in gardening circles. They are not fussy and are actually adapted to take the lowest end of nature's totem pole. Kevin planted some fairly tender-sounding seedlings in a borderline hardy zone for Hellebores, which might explain why they didn't survive the winter.

I feel that Hellebores are a must for any garden; there is nothing quite like them. Is there another perennial that blooms during winter and holds its blooms so long?

I think they will grow in borderline Zone 4 areas, but if you get a particularly tough winter, some may perish. Then you have an excuse to try another cultivar.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I don't grow anything more fancy than seedling raised H x hybridus in maroon shades and H foetidus. But I wouldn't be without them. As mistacott says what else is in bud out there right now (H foetidus is in full bloom)? They are tough as old boots, grow in dry shade and require no attention at all other than the removal of old leaves and the odd dollop of compost.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Well, I did a bit of online searching and it looks like a few people in MN (zone 4) do grow these. As I suspected however, in these parts you can't expect flowers until March which doesn't surprise me. That's about the earliest you see crocus around here.

Kevin


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

None in my garden...not sure why.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

mista ....

stay at home dad.. right .... me

frankly.. i lost interest in the kids [garden].. when the kids came along [real ones] ...

not to mention the move from what is locally called MI peat type soil ... that will grow anything.. to mineral sand.. that grows trees and conifers.. and the bulletproof stuff ...

i think i got a hella or two in a hosta trade.. and threw it in the hosta bed.. on irrigation.. 5 to 8 years ago..

frankly.. for all i know.. its still out there.. lol ...

5 acres just became too overwhelming.. for a pay attention-type perennial garden ... foo is foo .. and i aint messin with it ..

annuals.. what reseeds is still around ... and brings me joy .. on some level because they are free.. lol ..

the perennials you could leave on the driveway ... are still around ... daylily.. iris.. etc ...

many conifers.. many trees.. many shrubs.. all the stuff you could run over with the truck ... [but for the truck rusting away.. lol] ... which is a euphemism for.. no care required ...

there you go..

you are a hoot.. lol

ken


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

These are so easy to grow and beautiful! They aren't sold in a lot of nurseries because so many people won't buy flowering plants without blooms on them. Since most nurseries close in the winter and these bloom then, that's probably why they don't tend to be sold at many locations.

I am adding more doubles this year. They are planted in a shade garden at the college I attend and I look forward to seeing them every year when school starts back.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I have loamy clay pretty much and these grow very well here. I find them to be one of my easiest plants. Really don't have to do much except clean up the wintered over foliage in early spring. They take a long time to grow to blooming size if you start out with small seedlings. Three years maybe? I bought mine at a local garden club sale to start with and ignored the small seedlings for a few years. So exciting when they finally bloomed. Now I have a few doubles too. And I would rather let them drop seed where they are and make their own seedlings, which they have done in abundance. Very healthy, long blooming, attractive all year, and little attention needed.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I have dry, sandy, nutrient poor soil, though I've built it up over the years. Hellebores do great for me, and are no extra work.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

No doubters who refer to these plants as hell-of-a-bores? ;)


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

LMAO Eric!!!! I've never had one...


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Hellebores are very easy and very hardy. But while settling in after planting, the plants often seem to diminish at the beginning of their new life in the garden. However, that is only temporary because they are developing roots.
They look their best when the weather is worst, which is a great boon to a gardener. They stand and flower even in the snow. The only time I've ever seen damage to a hellebore was this spring when an arborist dropped a massive tree on a flowering specimen. It still continued flowering, but looked lopsided and mangy for the rest of the season.
Best of all, they reseed promiscuously, so there are always more to tuck into odd places.
Plant them in spring and then leave them alone. Expect nothing for the first year or two. They generally double in size and number of flowers each year, so allow the plant time to become magnificent.
New hybrids are much less expensive than in the recent past and usually flower the first year.
I have never fed or even watered any of mine. I do not protect for winter. I can't think of anything easier to grow; hellebores are even easier than hosta.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I had some cheap Pine Knot seedlings first which were nice, tried some more expensive (for the size) Sunshine strains which I wasn't impressed with, and am now waiting for a couple other ones to grow up and bloom. Last spring I bought some winter Jewels doubles and I'm anxious to see them flower.

For me they take a couple years to settle in and don't appreciate drying out too much in the summer (and I really mean really dry, as in under the eaves of the house with no water for two months)

I've had a couple 'hella-bores' with the usual great foliage, but boring flowers. If you're getting a bunch of mixed seedlings you might have to weed a couple out if they don't impress you.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

google images "O'byrne hellebores" if you're on the hella-bore wagon, they are the breeders for the winter jewel series, and I think the photos will change your mind.... or at least feed a spring fever.

Here is a link that might be useful: O'byrne hellebores on google


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I was checking out the hellebore patch today and found this surprise:

Note the fat buds poking up through the leaves. Should be flowers sometime in the next couple of weeks, depending on the weather.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Eric

That's very hopefully-looking and very cool.

So what are your temps like right now and how cold has it been this winter?

Kevin


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

We hit 64F today, which melted almost all the snow remaining from our 14 inches or so in December (most of that fell in the latter part of the month, which was seasonably cold along with the first week of January). Our low so far for the season has been 10F.

All the hellebore foliage looks good. Two of the plants are in bud.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Mr.Campanula made a 70mile round trip to buy me a single pale yellow hellebore last year (OK, I know you americans consider 70miles a short jaunt but to us, it is almost an epic voyage).

So yes, I love them and, right now, nestling with the ferns and the beginnings of chaenomeles buds, there is enough to keep me going through the dark dreariness of an english winter.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

"Hellebores are even easier than Hosta......" That statement is greeted by hollow laughter from me. Hostas are impossible in my garden. But the slugs only nibble the hellebore flowers, not the entire plant.

My one and only 'easy' Hosta. Even in a 3 ft tall chimney pot the slugs and snails will find it. (Note happy H foetidus in the background)(Note also crushed eggshells making not bit of difference).


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

LOL. It really is amazing what slugs can do isn't it?! A couple years ago around dusk I was in the basement. I look out the window and there is a slug oozing its way across the screen. Just about blew me over backward- "They can go vertical!!!!" I gasped mentally. Somehow I never guessed they could crawl up so far...
CMK


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

christinmk - they can climb as high as you like. So can snails. We sometimes see them on our upstairs windowsills - and we have four storeys.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I have a hellebore that's about 5 y old in the twin cities area. I don't do anything to it, and it seems to be thriving. Took a couple years to establish though. Seems to be hardy.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

I have H foetidus in bloom right now. And hundreds of seedlings of various sizes all around them and under the rhododendron nearby.

I also have several H. Orientalis, all from the Sunshine series by Barry Glick. I have a dark purple, a burgundy, two white and a pink plus several more that haven't bloomed yet.

I love them. The foliage stays pretty all winter unless buried by snow.


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Hey all, I realize this thread has been lying dormant for several months, but having read through some other Hellebore-related threads, I've enjoyed this one's conversation & company the most, so here I am, hoping some of y'all are still around :)

I'm amazed to say that I only just heard of Hellebores earlier this morning, while googling shade-loving (or at least tolerant) perennials to populate a neglected spot in our yard that may have potential for a great shade garden. It is along the north side of our garage, under a big old pecan tree, and so is basically in full shade year round, although there is of course ambient light.

Having read all these H. forums and viewed so many gardeners' enchanting flower photos, I'm sorely tempted but rather intimidated to try growing these. I'm in central Texas, and I had a disheartening first experience with a hydrangea earlier this spring that didn't make it past the first weeks of summer heat...

So I guess my question is, do hellebores even have a chance of making it here? I gather the plants are on the pricey side, and don't know if I have the patience to start from seed... (I read some of that thread -- 5 months to germinate? Yikes, I can barely stand the wait for a squash seed to come up!) Shall I content myself with perusing the H. photos online, and settle on some other, safer options for my shady bed-to-be? Or is there anyone who's been successful with H. here in Texas?

Incidentally, some of the others I learned of in my googling earlier were brunnera and pulmonaria, which I'd also never heard of -- where have I been?? Do you all know anything about these? I feel like a babe in the wood(land)s. ;)

Well, gosh, sorry to babble on, but glad to have a place to air my newfound shade-plant ignorance, and look forward to learning more from those in the know! - amy


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Hellebores

amy1717 - Below is a link to a site with more detailed information about hellebores/Lenten rose. Here's what the Better Homes & Gardens' website has to say about them:

"Hellebores are so easy and so pretty, they have a place in nearly every landscape. Their exquisite bowl- or saucer-shape flowers in white (often speckled), pinks, yellows, or maroon remain on the plant for several months, even after the petals have fallen. Deer-resistant and mostly evergreen, hellebores' divided leaves rise on sturdy stems and may be serrated (like a knife) along the edges. They do best in shade where soil remains moist; some prefer acid or alkaline conditions, depending on variety."

Your Zone 9 location is at the top of their hardiness range so you'd likely need to grow them in nearly full shade whereas my Zone 6 New England garden is more forgiving in terms of sun exposure.

I currently grow six hellebore cultivars at the northeast corner of my house where they enjoy some full sun early in the day. All are thriving in sandy loam along with hosta & other shade perennials including brunnera and pulmonaria altho' the brunnera are growing in full shade. They get only the moisture doled out by Mother Nature.

In addition to hosta, other perennials growing in full/part shade in my zone are:

Tricyrtis hirta/toad lily
Cimicifuga racemosa/black snakeroot
Astilbe
Carex/Japanese sedge grass 'Ice Dance'
Athyrium nipponicum/Japanese painted fern
Aquilegia/Columbine
Dicentra spectabilis/bleeding heart
Heuchera/coral bells

I've found Larry Hodgson's book 'Perennials for Every Purpose' to be most helpful when planning my garden beds.

Best of luck & have fun!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hellebore info


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, info & encouragement, gardenweed! Your corner bed must be lovely with the brunnera & pulmonaria -- I was quite taken with them when I found their photos online earlier. Have you posted any garden pictures here on GW? I'd love to see how they look together with the hellebore.

I'm not sure about hostas -- they're nice-looking, but I kept reading that they have slug problems, which is a little off-putting :) Then again, I've never seen slugs where we live, so that might be a non-issue here.

Well, it certainly won't be a problem providing enough shade during the summer, and I think the bed may get some morning sun in the winter & early spring before the pecan tree fills in -- it seems like that'll be good for the hellebore if it's trying to bloom then.

I'm thinking I should add some compost & mulch to the soil there to make it more hospitable -- it's pretty hard-packed. We are next to a creek which has flooded twice in the last 11 years, and while I've heard creek silt is good for growing things, I'm sure it could use some organic material as well.

After I posted earlier, I came across another GW thread from someone looking to buy hellebores in Texas, which also had several folks testifying to its ability to thrive here. With that and your note, I'm feeling much more hopeful about trying these "new" plants I've discovered. :) Thanks again! - amy


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Think I'll start a new thread in the shade plants forum for this question, but figured I'd put it here, too, since gardenweed was so helpful earlier. :)

I've been searching google & GW for a while now to try to learn what time of year is best to plant the plants I'm wanting to try in my shade garden (once I find where to buy them, of course). They are: hellebore, brunnera, pulmonaria, and perhaps some elephant ears. None of my searches is turning up any solid advice on this point -- any ideas? Thanks! - a


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

'amy' here is a recent hellebore thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: My first hellebores


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Thanks, rouge21 - reading it now!


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Hellebore info

amy1717 - the general rule of thumb for planting perennials is (at least in my experience) if they bloom in spring, plant them in fall; if they bloom in fall, plant them in spring. It's also been my experience a large percentage of shade-loving plants bloom in spring which suggests fall is likely your best bet for planting them.

Sorry--I haven't posted any recent pics here on GW. Lost my job in May 2011 and my laptop crashed the same day. Haven't really taken too many photos since then altho' my garden beds have been gorgeous the past few years. I'm still hoping to load Photoshop back on my computer at some point.

I can safely say I'd never be without hostas in my shade beds altho' that's based on my experience which may not reflect what yours has been. I went to a hosta expert in Granby, CT several years ago and selected nearly a dozen "designer" hostas that I planted in full shade. Since then, a GW friend gifted me with several other named cultivars based on what she knew of my personality. My hostas are gifts that reflect my interests--since I love to sail on old wooden schooners, one I have is called 'Queen of the Seas.' Others include 'Patriot,' 'Revolution,' 'Liberty,' & 'Minuteman.' My all-time favorite is 'Dream Weaver.'

I save eggshells through the year and when spring rolls around I crush them with a potato masher and sprinkle the crushed shells around my emerging hostas to discourage the snails. It's worked for me for several years but may not be as effective in your zone.

As regards soil, I'm living in the house where I grew up and know that my parents practiced organic gardening for many (40+) years since I had to do my part in the vegetable garden every growing season from age 12+. Whenever I plant something here on my little green acre, I dig up lots of fat, healthy worms.

Best of luck to you!


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

It is one of the few things I haven't tried. I guess it is mainly because if they bloom in the winter, do you have to look under the snow?


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

Hi Gardenweed, Thanks for the tips re: planting schedules - that makes sense to me, and is pretty much what I would have guessed, but nice to have it confirmed by someone with more experience. How fortunate you are to have grown up with gardening parents, and to have inherited all that good soil y’all built up over the years! I’m in the house my husband grew up in, and I don’t think his folks were much into gardening, so each year I try to carve out and claim another little bed or corner as time and energy allow…

That is a shame about your laptop (and job) crashing. My husband & I have a computer shop here in our small town, and he also teaches computer classes at our local library, one of which is photo editing. For that one he has his students use Magix Xtreme, which I believe is a free download - might be a useful (and cheaper) alternative to Photoshop.

Not to get too far off gardening here, but we are also sometimes-sailors! We bought a MacGregor 25 in 2006, and took it on a big adventure sailing down the gulf coast of Florida for 5 weeks in 2007. Since then, we try to get out on our nearest lake for a month or so each year, where we can dock it and leave it for a few week end visits with friends. Haven’t had a chance to do any sailing this year, since our shop assistant quit at the end of Feb - too many computers to fix in this town. He has occasionally hinted at chucking it all and taking up the live-aboard cruising lifestyle, to which I always have to point out that as appealing as that sounds, it is very hard to garden on a boat! :) Can’t have all our hobbies in one basket, unfortunately.

I’ll keep those hostas in mind when I get around to planting. (Good tip about the egg shells!) I’m in our local garden club, and that seems like something some of my fellow members might have, so maybe I can get some shares, if that’s not too hard to do.

Once again, thanks for your helpful insight & genial conversation! Best to you - Amy


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Hellebores are great but so is sailing

RyseRyse_2004 - prior to the most recent adjustment to USDA hardiness zones I was Z5 and my hellebores were already planted in my garden beds when I took this picture a couple of winters ago where my hellebores were growing:

That's my front lawn. I'm guessing all that snow melted & made my hellebores really happy because they've more than doubled in size since. I'm also guessing they might have been in bloom under the snow but chances are they didn't really bloom until most of that melted. I could be wrong but am guessing it's a preference thing--I love anything that blooms so having these blooms so early in the season is a welcome sight.

amy1717 - thanks for the tip about the free photo site. I'll be sure to check it out.

I sailed aboard the schooner 'Nathaniel Bowditch' every summer for 30 years (check out the link). The ship was built in East Boothbay, Maine in 1922. Also sailed with her for Sail Boston 2000 and again in 2007. Fell in love with sailing after doing a couple Outward Bound sailing challenges in Maine.

Would enjoy a pic of your boat if you have one. Some friends I met aboard the Bowditch have a 50 ft. boat down on the Chesapeake.

Sorry I'm not yet on Facebook.

I could sure give you hosta divisions if we were closer--had to divide quite a few of my designer plants when they were close to a decade growing where I planted them. We've had so much rain this season they're most of them twice their normal size. Ye gods!!!

Would be happy to give you divisions once the weather cools if you're willing to pay the shipping.

Here is a link that might be useful: Schooner Nathaniel Bowditch


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RE: Am I the only person who DOESN'T grow Hellebores?

gardenweed - First off, WOW, that's a lot of snow! Hard to imagine anything blooming under all that, but who would know? Glad to see some of your photos -- they're beautiful! What lovely color in that bloom.

Too bad you're not on FB yet -- don't want to go off on a sailing tangent here, but will post the link to our online blog from the 2007 trip, which has probably more photos of us & our boat than anyone cares to see. Ours looks like a dinghy compared to the Bowditch!! I'll have to show that one to my other half, good inspiration for our next great adventure :)

Out of curiosity, what part of CT are you in? My aunt & uncle live there, near Willimantic, and Mom did for some years before coming back to TX, so I got to spend a few vacations up there in the '90s. Beautiful area -- I loved discovering Indian Pipes and all the wild ferns in the woodlands behind her house.

Might take you up on those divisions -- do they ship well? Let me know when that's a possibility!

This post was edited by amy1717 on Fri, Oct 4, 13 at 0:31


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