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miclino

tall columnar perennial

14 years ago

Hello all,

Finally getting done with my spring shopping. One of the last things I need is a tall columnar flowering perennial, MUST have a narrow base and not be floppy and tolerate part sun, part shade spot. I don't mind dividing to keep it from getting too wide.

Comments (27)

  • 14 years ago

    Forgot to add, this is zone 5 in SE MI

  • 14 years ago

    How tall is tall, and how narrow is narrow?

    A Eupatorium or Thalictrum will work in partial sun/shade.

  • 14 years ago

    For me, 3-5 feet would be tall enough. Base should Ideally be 1 sq foot, maybe little more, I may be asking the impossible though.

  • PRO
    14 years ago

    Heliopsis ÂPrairie Sunset' kind of hard to find but well worth it. Probably one of my top 10 favorites. Gets about 5 feet tall with purplish stems, golden yellow with orange/red centers. Tall slender plant that didn't need much staking in my old full sun garden.

  • 14 years ago

    How about Rudbeckia nitida 'Herbstonne'? The base has gotten less than two feet wide, though I suspect it could get wider in rich soil (which is not what I have, lol). Mine gets shade until late morning and has grown to about 7-8ft. tall. Can seed around a little, but it is a beautiful plant!

    I also second coolplantsguy's idea of Thalictrum, which is a great favorite of mine.
    CMK

  • 14 years ago

    As you said, you may be asking the impossible. Finding a flowering perennial (or other type of showy flowering plant, for that matter) that will get that tall but also stay that narrow in partial shade without flopping, and without a tremendous amount of staking, trimming, pruning, dividing, etc. is a mighty tall order. What is the intended design function, or "job description," of the plant in question supposed to be? Are you intending to plant just a single specimen of it, or in masses, or sprinkled throughout a larger bed area? To me, these are important considerations. I know you said you'd prefer a flowering perennial, but could you live with a shrub, such as the 'Helmond Pillar' barberry or (egad!) the 'Sky Pencil' Japanese holly? Neither of these are exactly my favorite plants, personally, but they certainly do a fantastic job of serving as incredibly slender, vertical structural accent elements in a landscape, and they're also extremely hardy and easy to grow, too (the barberry's burgundy foliage color would fade in proportion to the amount of shade it receives, but that may actually be a good thing, since it would tone down its garishness). Or for that matter, how about a non-living element, like a tall, narrow piece of garden art? Obviously, it wouldn't need to be divided, and would be indifferent to the shade(!). Or how about combining the two, and use a nice tuteur or obelisk with a moderately vigorous clematis, or another annual or perennial climber trained on it? Those seem like much more realistic options than trying to keep a tall herbaceous perennial within about a one-square-foot space, even the ones that were suggested. The 'Prairie Sunset' heliopsis is a fantastic plant, and some taller eupatoriums or rudbeckias could fit the bill, too. But personally, from the amount of shade you describe having there (and if it's coming from deciduous trees, it's only going to get shadier as time goes by) I really doubt that even they would prove slender enough and sturdy enough for your stated needs. Some kind of thalictrum strikes me as the best of what was suggested, and if you're dead-set on a true, freestanding herbaceous perennial, then that may be one of your best choices. But it still seems to me less than ideal, at least depending on what exactly your purpose is for this plant.

    Best of luck!

  • 14 years ago

    Yes, I also wouldn't recommend a Heliopsis or Rudbeckia for partial sun/shade.

  • 14 years ago

    Foxglove maybe? My delphiniums don't flop, but they are kind of supported by other plants.

  • 14 years ago

    Thalictrum. The following grows to 5 feet and the footing is no bigger than the square foot you wish for.

    {{gwi:202460}}

    Another that would be nice is Cimicifuga. The Cimicifuga Brunette which I have grows to 6 feet when in flower and the footing stays compact.

    Aconitum might be another you may like to consider. The fall blooming purples are quite spectacular.

    Foxgloves - Digitalis - are biennials most often but well worth the "Ahhh" factor.
    {{gwi:202461}}

  • 14 years ago

    My favorite spikes and spires:

    Veronicastrum cultivars, a mature plant with be way over a foot at the base, but the definite garden effect is vertical and architectural. I suspect most plants in that size range are going to be over a foot wide.

    Verbascums, take your pick, most are biennials but reseed, if grown lean they will stay upright.

    Any number of foxgloves, going beyong the common, try Digitalis ferruginea, which has very narrow slender tall spikes.

    Epilobium angustifulium, fireweed, tall narrow long bloomer, the white forms is sublime though now very hard to find in the US.

    Any number of Cimicifugas, very tall one is C. americana.

    Some of the taller Liatris will fill this bill.

    Don't forget that some woody plants can be used very effectively like this in border too and will have a very small footprint -- Ilex 'Sky Pencil', Buxus 'Graham Blandy', there is a Berberis in this form too whose cv name I forget, I am sure there are others.

    To me, some of the plants in the above posts are "tall" and great garden plants but don't give the impression of being "columnar" -- that implies to me that the inflorescence itself is a spike or spire, and that there are numerous small flowers that are arranged along the stem -- not just a tall plant with the flowers at the top. Those give a different garden effect than a spire, and many or those plants tend to be floppier too if grown in rich soil -- most spires with smaller flowers are less top-heavy and will stay more upright.

  • 14 years ago

    Hmm, lot of food for thought here. I did consider aconitum but was put off by the notes about how poisonous it was. I have an 18 month old running around.

    David and others are right, I wasn't really looking for flowering spires, rather something to put in a spot in the back corner for a bed in front of the house where a tall Delphinium grew.

    Thalictrum is definitely interesting looking, will try and find one at a nursery so I can get a better feel for it.

    Random question:
    Any idea what the white long stemmed flowering plant in this picture is?

    Here is a link that might be useful: white flowering plant

  • PRO
    14 years ago

    Gladiola

  • 14 years ago

    Side question. will thalictrum do well in the Texas heat? and/or in sandy loam?

  • 14 years ago

    ginnypenny, there are lots of different kinds of thalictrums out there (more than 100 species, and countless hybrids and cultivars), and they're native to a wide range of habitats, from the Arctic to the tropics. So there surely are some of them that could be grown just about anywhere. A lot of the well-known and widely available garden forms, though, have been selected in the Northeast, the West Coast, or Europe, and so are not necessarily well-suited to conditions in the Deep South. But there are certainly some exceptions. I used to live and garden in Houston, and I had two thalictrum forms that grew well in my garden there. One was the ever-popular Thalictrum rochebrunianum, which looked almost as good there as it did in Chicago. It thrived in a lightly shaded, woodland edge setting in my yard, in a place that stayed fairly moist but not soggy through the summer, which is a key to success with a lot of thalictrums. The other thalictrum I had was a shorter one with deeper pink flowers that also did very well. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find its identity in my notes (:)) So, yes, at least some thalictrums can do well in the heat of East Texas, but supplemental water in the summer will be beneficial. And the sandy loam should be fine, too, but for most thalictrums it would be good to amend it generously with compost and mulch the surface well.

    Hopefully other GardenWebers will have more recommendations of other specific Thalictrum species and cultivars that are available and well-suited to zone 8.

  • 14 years ago

    Thanks, tlacuache, It's amazing to me how many wonderful plants out there, that I've never heard of. And so many that, you know, won't stand the Texas heat. I'm going to try and find some to plant along side a swampy type creek I have.

  • 14 years ago

    What about Miscanthus 'Morning Light'? Mine are in partial shade and they are slow growing, I divide every five years. Beautiful variegated grass. Mine are about 4' tall when not in bloom.

  • 14 years ago

    buyorsell888, have you been able to consistently keep 'Morning Light' at one foot or less across at the base? Mine here in steamy North Carolina quickly get wider than that, but they may expand more slowly in the more even climate of Oregon, or in miclino's Michigan garden for that matter.

  • 14 years ago

    I just went outside and measured and yes, both of my clumps are 10"- 12" at the base. It has been at least three years since I divided them. One is in dry partial sun under fir trees and the other is in morning sun only in a pot. The pot is a 14" pot. I gave them both crew cuts last week so they were easy to measure.

    These were divided from a plant I bought close to ten years ago. I have several Miscanthus and none of them is a rapid grower for me. Flame (var pururescens) is the widest though not very tall.

  • 14 years ago

    Interesting, buyorsell888. I promise that my 'Morning Light' and those in other gardens around here quickly get wider than 10 or 12 inches. And when it comes to miscanthus in general, the variegated cultivars like 'Morning Light' are a bit less vigorous than the solid green forms, but I would hardly say that "none of them is a rapid grower for me," except perhaps for the lovely but timid new variety 'Gold Bar.' I think that our observations speak to the nature of miscanthus grasses as classic C4 plants, which grow fastest in hot weather. Our longer, hotter summers here in North Carolina are certainly a mixed blessing on the whole, but they evidently inspire much faster growth in miscanthuses. I would suppose that the conditions in miclino's garden in Michigan may be intermediate between you and I, and so the vigor of a miscanthus there may be intermediate, but I don't really know.

    Having said all of this, it may be academic anyway. This seemed to be one of those threads (of which there are many on GardenWeb) where those replying to it seem to have been more interested in it than the original poster. ;) C'est la vie!

  • 14 years ago

    How about Coreopsis tripteris- a coreopsis you have to look up at(8'). Very strong thick stems so it won't flop over. Out here I call it Minnesota bamboo.

  • 14 years ago

    "Minnesota Bamboo" -- love that name for C. tripteris!

  • 14 years ago

    Sorry, didn't get back into this thread for this bit. Not really into the grasses at this point so I might look at other options. Coreopsis tripteris is very interesting. Although it does look like it needs space to spread, how easy is it to control spread?

  • 14 years ago

    Coreopsis tripteris spreads like bamboo, which may be why it's named after it. It's a good plant but would be difficult to keep confined to 1 square foot, and would look odd anyway even if you could keep it confined. It looks gawky unless grown in mass.

    Thalictrum sounds like the ideal plant for your requirements. It is not solid like a column but airy, the type of plant that creates an interesting silhouette. It has the bonus of not needing division but securing it to a short stake will prevent it from blowing over at the base. This takes about 5 minutes, far less time and energy than dividing a spreader.

  • 14 years ago

    i think the Berberis that was referenced by David is Helmond's Pillar. Lovely!

  • 14 years ago

    tlacuache
    I have 'Gold Bar' too and timid is a good word for it. Funny that it was developed here and still timid here. 'Little Dot' has grown taller, far faster. I'm just now going to divide 'Little Bunny' after over six years from a four inch pot.

    Portland gets significantly fewer days over 80* than you do. I have friends in NC and we compare weather all the time.

  • 14 years ago

    After all this, oddly enough, I'm considering moving some of the perennials around to make a little more space in the above mentioned location for Dogwood arctic fire. I think it is more upright as compared to Arctic Sun? Would provide some nice winter interest as well. I could probably prune to keep it within a 3 foot space.

    I have space for one more small shrub. I'm considering something to also give winter interest. I'm wondering how well Nandina firepower would do in SE MI?

  • 5 years ago

    I know this is a very old thread!!! I found it because I am looking for "tall columnar" perennial in part shade, very wet in spring spot, and find all of these comments very helpful. I am re-doing this spot and wanted something different, but it's not easy to find. I had a Karl Foerster grass that did well, except that it flopped after heavy rain. It picks up again, and since no one walks there, it doesn't really matter. I am considering re-planting it (very easy to trim back the base of this grass). Or replacing it with blue flag iris, or??

    ( miclino, a lovely more compact dogwood Ivory Halo, but it still gets about 4 or 5 feet wide. Definitely not tall & columnar. It would be a nightmare to try to prune to to small space.)


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