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rouge21_gw

Which gives you the most angst as to when or if it will appear?

Each of us has that perennial we love lots but at the same time gives us some consternation as to its usually late appearance in the spring.

For me I have lost all confidence in my ability to grow a Buttefly Bush beyond its first or maybe second year.

After forsaking this plant for a few years I decided to give it one more try. This time I chose a Buddleia "Flutterby Petite Blue Heaven" and quickly got it in the ground by late May 2012 thinking that an early start would result in a more mature root system by the time fall rolled around. Anyways it performed spectacularly even in its first year i.e. lots of flowers and beautifully shaped. And I know it is still early, especially give the late spring but still I am convinced it is dead :(; as I had said earlier, I have no confidence.

This post was edited by rouge21 on Mon, Apr 15, 13 at 8:07

Comments (40)

  • dowlinggram
    10 years ago

    Correopsis moonbeam is always the last to appear. The first few years I thought I'd lost it and then it showed up about the time the tulips were fading. Now I wait in anticipation for it to arrive every year.

    Lucky you that you can grow butterfly bush. I wish I could but it is not hardy in my zone even with heavy winter mulching. One of the joys of gardening is seeing that first sprout of something you thought was dead. Hang in there and watch. It's early days yet. It may be just taking a longer winters nap

  • david883
    10 years ago

    This is my second spring in my new house so its my first after planting some of my own stuff.
    Existing plants.... I moved a cushion spurge (Euphorbia polychroma) very late in the fall so I was extremely nervous it wouldn't come back. I was checking it nearly every day since snow started melting and thankfully its got some growth!!!
    One of the dogs decided to scratch his back on the bleeding heart last year so I'm hoping that will come back, too. It was late enough that everyone said it was going to die off for the season soon enough anyway so hopefully no damage done there, too, but we'll see.
    I also moved a large weigelia.... hoping that will show some signs of life soon, too... Oye! I say, Oye!

    As for my new ones... I'm anxiously awaiting my two Texas Scarlet Flowering Quince shrubs to spring some buds and leaves... I think our extremely hot spell in the summer gave them some trouble and I even moved one sooooo... :/
    Hoping the Zebra Hollyhocks come back or at least reseeded well.
    There's also columbines, cranesbill and various seeds I'm hoping sprout or come back.
    I'm on the edge of my seat... I know this is just newbie anticipation but its killing me! haha

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    10 years ago

    I used to have angst about *everything* returning when I was a newbie LOL! Now I don't really concern myself with any of it. If it lives it lives, if not, so be it. I get annoyed when things don't come back (that means you *$&!# coral bells!) but that happens rarely (with the exception of those *#! coral bells) but that's not the same as angst.

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    10 years ago

    I really don't worry about this either. In some weird way, I almost get a bit excited with the possibility of having more room to try new things since my garden is so small and so packed. Let nature do the culling so I don't have to.

    I guess the only thing that might get me some angst is whether or not the rabbits will decide to chew the new sprouts on a few of my favorite lilies. They never eat the ones I really don't care that much about, only the ones I really love. Every year I say I'm going to protect those favorites with a bit of chicken wire and I never do, so I guess my angst still hasn't motivated me to do something about the problem. The mind works in strange and nonsensical ways sometimes.

    Kevin

  • ryseryse_2004
    10 years ago

    Mums!! I tried Butterfly Bush for several years here in Z5a and have decided it just isn't hardy here.

    I know Delphiniums are short lived but always hope certain ones will come back. Fortunately they self sow so I always get a nice strong one someplace I didn't expect.

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Kevin wrote: In some weird way, I almost get a bit excited with the possibility of having more room to try new things since my garden is so small and so packed. Let nature do the culling so I don't have to.

    I know exactly what you mean Kevin and so I do see the upside of a few deaths ;). But even so I take it a bit personally when a plant that thrived in the growing season fails to show itself the next year. I spare no expense ;) in providing great soil and mulches and compost and sometimes extra winter protection to ensure a plant's survival...especially for that first winter. And so I will ask..."what could I have done differently".

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    'Ryse', funny you mention "mums" as just yesterday I see evidence that my "Matchsticks" have made it through this trying winter. And this after moving it in August.

  • Thyme2dig NH Zone 5
    10 years ago

    Like some of you, I don't angst over much of anything. I also adopt the attitude of "OH, too bad that died.....but now I have room for that other cool plant I had been thinking about getting......" so, I don't feel too bad for too long!

    However.......A couple years ago I practically had to mortgage my house for a double trillium. It was worth the dough, but I do get anxious about not seeing that one coming up yet. All my other (less expensive of course) trilliums have shown themselves already. And so the waiting game begins.......

  • linlily
    10 years ago

    I have not seen any sign of Gaillardia Arizona Apricot yet - new here last year. But, I remember not seeing Arizona Sun break dormancy until very late one year, so I'm not going to worry yet.

    Rouge,
    I don't see any growth on my Buddleias as yet.They've been here for years and years and I'm sure they will be back. Don't give up yet. Look for the growth at the bottom, as well as on the upper areas. Depending on the winter weather, they may only grow from the very bottom, or they may fill out the top areas with new leaves as well.

    Linda

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    linlily funny you mention "Gaillardia Arizona Apricot" as I planted about 6 or so as a border plant just last year and they did so well in crappy clay soil. I liked that they were more compact than other Gaillardia. And looking at them just last day they show no signs of life...yet. (The main stem from last year is quite thick and woody). If none survive I will still likely plant AA again and just treat it like an annual.

    Thanks linlily for the encouragement re the BB. I do know they are so late in breaking dormancy and I will be so happy if it does make it. If you dont mind can you post or PM me when you see life in your Buddleias?

  • terrene
    10 years ago

    You know, I have bought SO many perennials over the years, that are now defunct - I have a ziploc bag full of plant tags from years gone by, and many of the plants themselves have long died out. Even a stalwart perennial like Baptisia can be wiped out if the voles get to it! So I've gotten somewhat used to the garden changing from year to year.

    That said, I do feel a bit of angst over my rare (and not so rare) milkweeds. Asclepias is not the easiest genus to grow, let alone get to flower and set seed. And I also fret a bit over some of the special seedlings I've started - Hemerocallis, Echinacea, etc.

  • aachenelf z5 Mpls
    10 years ago

    Funny you mentioned Buddleia. I ordered my first one this year 'Blue Heaven Petite'. I guess time will tell.

    Kevin

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Kevin, I think you will be very pleased with this variety. The sooner you get it in the ground (hopefully before June 1) the sooner you will have lots of blooms in even its first year.

  • katob Z6ish, NE Pa
    10 years ago

    I worry about my bluebell, it goes dormant in June and makes such a sudden exit that I'm never totally sure if it's not really just dying.... And then it comes back stronger than ever, just not as early as I feel it should be. I would worry about a double trillium too, but the rest of the stuff comes and goes!

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    10 years ago

    My lone hibiscus. Every year I'm convinced it's dead, despite telling myself that these are known for their late dormancy-breaking.

    But this year, I really DO think it's dead...

    :)
    Dee

  • funnthsun z7A - Southern VA
    10 years ago

    Echinaceas, Echinaceas, Echinaceas! Late breakers and new varieties on top of that make for much angst! They get me every year b/c they are pricey and known for unreliability, but I must, must try the new varieties b/c they are my fav perennial. Glutton for punishment, I am.

    Next year, I will be a veritable basketcase b/c I planted a new huge perennial bed this year, so come spring, I'll be waiting to see what survived it's first winter and what didn't. It'll be a nightmare!

  • hostaholic2 z 4, MN
    10 years ago

    I've also reached the point where if something doesn't make it, no big deal as it gives me an empty spot to try something new. That way I don't have to make the decision as to what gets shovel pruned. I used to look at every plant wondering if it was dead or alive, now it's just "whatever". This year I'd just like the dratted snow to melt and the temps to get into the 50's or 60's. I keep telling myself to be thankful I'm not in the Fargo, ND area and I didn't get another 18" of snow over the weekend.. My sincere sympathy to all of you.

  • gardenweed_z6a
    10 years ago

    In past years I sweated over whether some of the nursery perennials I purchased & planted would come back but since I discovered winter sowing and grew such a huge variety of plants for $0 I don't have garden space available to plant them all, I notice my angst has been reduced to nearly zero.

    David883 - I enjoyed but neglected Polychroma spurge euphorbia in my garden for 20+ years, dug it up when I moved to where I currently garden, replanted it & continue to enjoy & neglect it.

    Jury's still out on winter sown gaillardia but the rudbeckia varieties are putting out new growth.

    Butterfly bush seeds are so plentiful and have a virtual 150% germination rate, I've got winter sown three-year plants growing in every bed that gets sufficient hours of full sun. They've all come back reliably the past few years altho' not all have reached their full growth potential each season based on growing conditions (i.e., temperatures, amount of rain).

    I gave up wondering where the Virginia bluebells went once I discovered they die back, go dormant & disappear after blooming. I do cross my fingers that my columbines return each year since they're such a welcome, cheerful sight in the spring.

    Dee - even the winter sown hardy hibiscus has been a disappointment so I've pretty much given up hope I'll ever have any that put on a show. I've got sort of a "win some/lose some" attitude about those.

    funnthsun - I gave up on the "fancy" Echinaceas after paying an outrageous price for Pow Wow Wild Berry seeds and getting puny, anemic plants even using the winter sowing method. The birds, bees & I'll stick with the reliable species. When in doubt, trust that Mother Nature knows best.

  • terrene
    10 years ago

    Gardenweed, so your Echinacea Pow wow wild berry seedlings stunk huh? Mine are now in their 3rd year from seed, emerging from the ground. They weren't great last year, but most of the Echinacea got transplanted around, so I did not consider that a true test because they were adjusting to their new locations. This year should be interesting. I have to say that the Echinacea 'Bravado' seedlings which were started the same year were much more vigourous than the PWWB.

    Between the fancy cultivars I've spent hundreds of $ on, that are now dead and gone, and the fancy seed strains from expensive seed that produced crappy seedlings, I have a greater appreciation for the reliable perennials.

  • funnthsun z7A - Southern VA
    10 years ago

    Well, I have had an interesting relationship with Echinacea. If it weren't my fav and if I didn't hate pink to the very bottoms of my toes, then it would be much easier to stick to the tried and true. But, that is not the case, so this is the one maniacal gardening area that I seem to have no logic in, LOL.

    Something very intriguing has "come up" this year, though, with my echinaceas. I had a bed that I got frustrated with, sudden major drainage issues, a takeover weed from he**, etc., found me walking away from the bed completely (yep, I was mad) and I basically ignored it for 3 years. Well, finally got over it and have been "saving" stuff that survived and has come back up this spring. I have had two echinaceas, definitely, two of the newer cultivars, come back up and I have potted them up. I can't wait to try and figure out which ones they are and I am VERY impressed that they have managed to survive, whatever varieties they are.

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    10 years ago

    Dee and gardenweed - don't give up on hardy hibiscus! They are such beautiful plants.... I have a large clump of a Disco Belle one I bought more than 10 years ago plus various ones grown from seeds of it - most of the seedlings came 'true' to the parent but some don't have the dark eye. I have been less successful in growing the deep red ones - I have tried multiple different varieties but none of them have taken off as well as my old favorite pink ones. Two of the red ones have come back for several years so I have hopes that they may eventually bulk up. The hibiscuses, for me, never show up until late May at the earliest. Heaven only knows when they'll show up this year! I always leave 6" of the old stems when I cut them down in the fall to make sure I don't forget where they are! My favorite - the first planted - hibiscus:
    {{gwi:173604}}

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    10 years ago

    Nice, woodyoak! I bought a Lord Baltimore years and years ago. I was out driving and saw one (I assume) in bloom and was completely stopped dead in my tracks! And I don't even like red! But it was a huge plant, well over five feet tall and at least as big around, full of huge, red, breathtaking blooms, and I had to have one.

    All these years later I baby along my two-stem wonder, lol. Well, it's really not its fault. I neglect it horribly, and do need to move it into a less dry spot, and I tell myself every year that I will. Especially at this time of year. I'm outside looking for any signs of life, muttering, come on, your lordship. Just grow again for me one more year and I promise this year I will move you into a nicer spot. I've got that new orange/red/yellow bed all ready finally and there's a spot for you, if you will just return this one time...."

    Then I tried a swamp hibiscus in a friend's bog garden, thinking that would be a slam dunk, and after one spindly little season I see no sign of life. I thought for sure this one would work!

    Dee

  • woodyoak zone 5 southern Ont., Canada
    10 years ago

    Dee - I have a couple of Lord Baltimores too that I keep hoping will bulk up like the pink ones do.... I love the rich red of them and have created a nice red and white combination that features them - and disguises the fact that there are only a few stems....!
    {{gwi:19348}}

    Another red one I have that I like but has only ever produced a few stems is 'Fireball'. It also has deeply cut dark leaves that look rather like a Japanese maple. I keep hoping for more stems but I'm lucky to get two a year from each of them!

    If you'd like to try growing my pink one from seed, e-mail me in August to remind me to collect some of the seed. The pink one seems to be foolproof, although it does take the usual three years to bulk up to a decent clump. The clump in the picture is about 10 years old. They're short enough to fit into a perennial border nicely while being substantial enough to have lots of presence once they bulk up. I've never pinched them as they don't get leggy.

  • christinmk z5b eastern WA
    10 years ago

    In my newbie garden days I had angst about pretty much everything, especially whether or not plants would make it thru the winter. The amount of "protection"/covering I did for winter was absurd.

    Now I don't sweat it so much. Or at least, it doesn't cause me angst so much as a bit of annoyance. Like if it is something I didn't have multiples of and I can't find another of to replace it with for instance. Or if I particularly liked it in that particular place in the garden (for the overall composition of the thing) and it leaves a gaping hole :-* That always opens up all those questions- should I bother trying another one here even though I liked it so much? Will it die out too? Etc.

    Only things I always worry a bit about is an heirloom rose handed down from my mother's mom and my ornamental rhubarb. I love that thing. My main concern was that it wouldn't take to kindly to second year planted in the half wine barrel. But it has come back fine.
    CMK

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    10 years ago

    woodyoak, you've now got me wondering if the hibiscus I saw (and still see) that inspired me to buy one is actually a Lord Baltimore. It's huge, full, with many, many stems and just loaded with blooms. In my early days of gardening I didn't do as much research as I do now. When I went home after seeing it the first time I looked up red hibiscus (well, first I had to figure out what kind of plant it was, lol, then I looked up red hibiscus) and saw Lord Baltimore, thought "bingo!" and bought it.

    If this house wasn't on such a busy road I'd stop and ask. The woman has a nice little garden and I wouldn't mind asking about a few other things. But I don't know if either my car or myself would survive parking there for even a few minutes!

    I was out walking the yard today, and realized something else that gives me angst as to whether it will appear or not - poison ivy, lol! So far I haven't seen signs of it where it was last year, so maybe my persistent sprayings of vinegar are working. Sure saw lots of wild rose, wild raspberry(?) and that #%$@%%!!! sheep sorrel growing today, though. Grr...

    Dee

  • gonativegal
    10 years ago

    For me it is the Jack n' Pulpit and a close runner up Blood Root.

    I have had years where the Blood Root has not emerged and the Jack n' Pulpit also did not come up one season and another time two years in a row very late (June) because of cold springs - they seem to be fickle when conditions are not right.

    The Pulpits are huge (I dug them from a site that was being bulldozed) and have been here for several years but they seem to know best what they like or don't like. Sometimes, they also go dormant in the summer and other times they stick around all the way to early fall. And even more interesting sometimes they even change their gender.

  • linlily
    10 years ago

    rouge21, I can say that there is a TINY bit of bottom growth on my Royal Red. So far, that's all I've noticed. I will go out and check my other Butterfly Bushes again tomorrow and let you know if I see anything. And can you let me know if you see any growth on your Arizona Apricot Gaillardias? I have a couple of woody stems too. One has a greenish color to it, but there is absolutely NO sign of anything that is leafy and green.

    Dee, don't give up on your hibiscus. I have a deep pink/ rose one, NOID, that I picked up at a plant swap 6 years ago. It is healthy and robust with multiple stems. But it can VERY late to break dormancy so I don't worry about it.

    I just checked yesterday and my plant of a double flowered, dark mahogany colored Cherokee Sunset Rudbeckia is starting to grow. I received it in a trade last year as Rudbeckia Toto, which I found out it was not when it started to bloom. I was afraid that it might not come back since many of the Rudbeckias can be short lived in zone 6. But it is starting to send up new growth.

    But it looks like I did lose a yellow flowered Icelandic Poppy that I just put in last year. It flowered and flowered but I think our overly hot and dry June into July were just too much for it since it was not yet established. I'm sure it should be up by now. I will probably purchase another one since I enjoyed the first one so much. I did water it frequently during the no-rain times but it just seemed to melt away.

    Linda

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I have a couple of woody stems too. One has a greenish color to it, but there is absolutely NO sign of anything that is leafy and green.

    linlily I have no idea what to expect re new growth from Gaillardia. I assume that unlike a BB the growth will be not from the old stems but rather the new growth will originate from the ground surrounding the existing dead plant?

    (And with your detection of new growth on your BB I am feeling a teeny bit down tonight. Of all the many perennials I planted last season it is this one that I most want to have survive the winter).

  • judyhi
    10 years ago

    Hi everyone! How about coreopsis in general? Late starter?

  • Ispahan Zone6a Chicago
    10 years ago

    Judyhi, I have heard coreopsis can be a late riser, especially the threadleaf types like 'Moonbeam' and 'Zagreb'. That said, I do see a few initial sprouts starting on my 'Zagreb' in a warm garden pocket behind my house.

    Other plants I have in addition to hibiscus that tend to be very late starters (thus making me nervous at times):

    Thalictrum
    Eupatorium
    Tricyrtis
    Japanese anemones
    Geranium 'Rozanne' (depending on the year)
    Platycodon
    Aster tartaricus 'Jindai'
    Perovskia

  • donna_in_sask
    10 years ago

    I wouldn't say I have any angst about it, but my Japanese Painted Fern shows up so late every year that I know better than to give up on it. Mind you, if hasn't exactly thrived where it's planted, so I don't think I would miss it all that much if it disappeared. Sounds heartless, I know, but I've lost count of the plants that have not made it in my garden.

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    10 years ago

    Yes, I have kind of the same experience with Japanese painted fern. I planted one in a friend's garden, and it too has not thrived where it's planted. I'm almost surprised - well, actually, I AM surprised every year when I see it hidden amongst the groundcover in the summer. I kind of forget it's there and give up on it, so it is kind of a nice surprise when I find it.

    Regarding the coreopsis: I had gotten some Moonbeam at a swap, and each year it hung on (hmm, I see a recurring theme here in my yard with things not thriving where they are planted....) but then one year it was just gone. Completely gone. Oh well.

    Two - not one, but TWO - years later, guess what popped up in the same spot? Moonbeam coreopsis. I had to move a daylily I planted there over a few inches. And the coreopsis came back the following year as well. We'll see about this year.

    Dee

  • mosswitch
    10 years ago

    I always worry the most about the trillium grandiflorums, looking anxiously at their spots every spring. But they always come back, even after last year's drought they are still here!

    Sandy

  • capecodder
    10 years ago

    Delphineums. Every year I plant at least 6 and sometimes 1 or 2 will come back. This year it looks like all are gone. And all the new types of echinaceas...very poor luck with those either. Last year I had things disappear due to voles, and I see their holes this year too. I do feel like some of you though...I think "Well, now that's gone so I have room for new things.

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    10 years ago

    In general I don't fuss too much about what survives as I am lucky to have pretty good growing conditions. However, I am always a bit anxious about the clematis and a few of the shrubs in my biggest bed. Unfortunately, the voles do lots of damage there every year, to date at least two pagoda dogwoods, a Pieris Brower's Beauty and at least two clematis have bit the dust along with many bulbs. In this bed I've started planting in wire cages things that I want to survive and that are on the voles favorites list but not robust spreaders. Last fall before things froze I saw the voles' tunnels get detoured by the cages in at least a couple of areas, so I am hopeful that this will be a solution, even though it is a bit of an inconvenience. In one other bed I tried spraying castor oil spray, and the plants there seem to have come through well, so I will try it in the big bed as well, I think, since I don't want to have to cage all the plants that have been there for years.

  • katob Z6ish, NE Pa
    10 years ago

    Thank a lot guys..... I was kinda just saying that I worry about the virginia bluebell, I never really expected it not to show up.
    So now it's a couple weeks later and still nothing! I have to wonder if theres some kind of doubting karma that just came around to bite me. I should have never questioned my bluebell, maybe it would still be with me today.

  • trovesoftrilliums
    10 years ago

    Sorry the bluebell didn't show yet. Maybe it will still grow next year. I have had this happen with a few plants, most recently a foxtail lily didn't show up the year after planting but now has some growth.

  • eclecticcottage
    10 years ago

    One ech (raspberry tuffle)-the rest are all showing up including Hot Papaya and Tiki Torch (as well as the reg purple and whites) and the butterfly weed.

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I think I can definitely say that my 2 "Spigelia marilandica" will not return for their second season. Even last summer...their first, they flowered well....just beautiful unique flowers. I know they can be iffy for a Canadian zone 5 but I made a conscious effort to plant then early in the season (2012) and put them in a two different sheltered locations. And yet neither show any signs of life as of May 8.

  • diggerdee zone 6 CT
    10 years ago

    In addition to my hibiscus, I should have also mentioned my leptodermis oblonga. I actually decided to give it away at a swap this year, so I dug it up and potted it up last week, but it still looks dead! That thing better spring to life soon or folks will be wondering why I brought a dead shrub to a swap, lol!

    Dee

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