OK, I looked it up, the info says sun, its from Iran & Turkey. I got my old catalogs from HCG out, none go back far enough to show it listed to read the growing conditions. I'd imagine since its in the mint family, it would like regular soil, in fact info says stachys romp & can become a pest in moisty conditions, but thats just general info about the species. Of course, I doubt they are talking about or have experience with dry dusty Texas. har-har.

Maybe I should go the other way than sticking it out on the dry scree with the cacti and texas thrivers and treat it with nicer stuff and more water than I ussually give. I just moved it and need to move it again. Maybe by the Penstemon salvia and add some organic soil. Maybe I took it from purgatory to hell.. Thanks Mr Texas Ranger. I Had another trip to town and succumbed to some Nierembergia 'Starry Eyes, and some Ironweed. It is dangerous and expensive to drive out in spring.

Here is a link that might be useful: Starry Eyes

Well, hey little lady, yer welcome.

I like the Nierembergia, I got a bunch of freebies from Farmers Market a couple years back when their plants were getting all fried. I stuck em in the ground in the heat of 2011, they took off fast, bloomed like crazy & wintered over no prob. Solid mass of blooms on fine foliage from summer to fall & good to go again the second year, nice neat mounded plants. These were 'Purple Robe'. They got croaked this winter so I think I'll get some more. They'll stay evergreen in your zone or here if its not a bad winter, another plus.

I'm a skert of ironweed, unless I lived on an acreage like some lucky people I know of, I take the advice from Sally Wasowski on it seriously. Sad, I really like that silver one.

I had mineirembergia in a pot and they played out in three years, I don't know if it was cold or drought or if they are just short lived perennials.

I have never had the spreading by roots problem that SW talks about. I have seen that with the really big Ironweed variety. I have never seen it with the wooly ironweed that I got ( Veronia lindheimeri ) on my land. I bought more because it grows slow from seed and does not move well. I have had my eye on one V. lindenheimerii that has been growing well behaved in town by a gulfcourse/park on a rise by a roadside. I take detours just for that plant.. It was the first plant of it that I saw and wondered how they got Liatris to grow like that? Time and education are a wonderful combination.

Today, It was on sale so I said what the h*ll, blame on spring indulgences. I think I got the silver one coming from HCG. I had to go to town top pick up materials for work and got sidetracked. I guess I might as well blow off the WHOLE day and haul 30 gallons of that dirt and rocks down to my new bed.

mmmm ironweed! Well, I do have the acreage and this is absolutely in the top 10 must get list. Anyone grown this from seed? Easy? Tricksy? Leaping into the unknown, I have got eupatorium, strobilanthes, epilobium, rudbeckia, sylphium on the go- those enormous things I adore but have lacked either space or soil conditions. My wood has lain fallow for 50 years along with overtopping of the river Yare....the soil (after I have wrestled the nettles out) is unbelievably fertile, rich, friable.........so um, I am a tad scared too.

apols for wafting OT

I tried sowing several seed of the wooly one in fall outdoors in a pot about 3 years ago. Not a one germinated. Now that my fears have been set straight, I need to check it out because I love the plant.

You have to admit, S.W. made it sound like your worst nightmare in the Texas natives regional landscape book. "They don't call it 'ironweed' for nothing, then she gives that description of those big 'iron' roots being capable of taking up a good sized portion of an acre & her regrets at ever planting it in a landscape she'd designed. I got a mental picture of metal rebar growing underground.

Are we off topic? Heck, when talking about a certain plant it always leads to a whole nuther thing, those are usually the best discussions in my world. Not much info out there on the plant asked about anyways from what I could see.

This post was edited by TexasRanger10 on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 18:38

Their are different forms of ironweed. Growing some ironweed from seed can be a little tricky , I hear. I find V. lindheimeri easy . I hear that V. baldwinii needs hardening with HEAT to sprout. They will sprout Late in the year. This is hearsay , true, from people more knowledgeable than me. This variety gets big and loves fields edges and is stoloniferous with IRON strong roots. Farmers hate it . There are many ironweed forms from further east. I saw some in the mountains of west virginia that were beautiful and probably by the amount of them in the low meadow, all connected with big fat hard roots. Th V lindheierii stays small and is a Paler color. Grows totally differently. Sally Says that it will become aggressive in friendly garden conditions. If you are willing to starve it in a prairie situation, it will stay del behaved. England might be a friendly vacation spot for it. Consider yourself warned. I garden in infertile dry "bracket soils" limestone alkaline rubble and very little water. Mr. TxRanger, You have an amended sandy prairie soil I think and that is different from me and roots do push there way through it easily . I would just not water it. Starve it as SW says. Do not make it cozy.

Campanula, if you are so interested in Texas Natives, I suggest this book By Sally and Andy Wasowski called Native Texas Plants: Landscaping region by region. It is put out there with a description of the different regions. We are a huge state that has many eco regions in it, from 60" of rain to 6" from Z 10 or 9b to Z6. It does have a dictionary of the plants listed by type that comprises most of the book. It was a bible for me for years. I think I have it memorized now. I can collect seeds when fall comes around for some. For fields it would be good. so would Spring obedient plant, Fall obedient plant (Physotegia virginiana), especially if you have ditches with seasonal wet. I don't grow this one because of my water situation. Liatris is another of those plants that comes in amazing variety and you only see the boring one in trade. For your neck of the woods , I would recommend Liatris pynostachya. It likes it a bit wetter than where I am. I have L. muncronata and L punctata. I can't tell them apart so there. I can collect those seeds in fall. They sprout EASY. They will grow tall and show up in a field situation.

This post was edited by wantonamara on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 0:14

If you have big space to fill & want quick results one suggestion is to plant Lantana 'Miss Huff', hardy to zone 6. I never saw a plant grow so fast & big in a single season. From a gallon pot to a 6ft wide x 4ft tall heavily blooming plant with a beefy main stem the size of your fist in the first year. Add in some Vitex behind it & you will quickly cover some serious space with lots of summer/fall blooms that need no watering, will take crappy soil with hardly any maintenance. If the lantana winterkills, you can just break off the stems real easy in spring, no cutting or tools necessary. Both attract lots of butterflies.

wantanamara, does the V. Lindheimeri seed need cold stratification?

I don't remember about the cold stratification. I only remember I got it going. I can pick you up one from the store.I have a nice one that is 12" tall in a 4" pot.

cheers, Wantonamara - will get on Abebooks soon as. In truth, I am only really familiar with V.crinita but will check out the woolly ironweed. My woodland is a mix of moist humusy soil, liable to seasonal overtopping every few years, on the southern edge.....which is already colonised with hemp agrimony, liatris and willowherbs.....so am planning on adding a little more diversity (although have mainly concentrated on the apiaceae family since this part of Norfolk is umbellifer central - we have around 20-30 various umbels growing naturally, throughout the year - right now, the smyrnium perfoliatum is filling the hedgerows while the cow parsley (anthriscus) is just getting ready to foam frothily.
Interest in natives is increasing in England (but as we have so few, we tend to include 'naturalised' in the same category. In truth, I am inclined to add in a bit more biodiversity and am looking for plants which will do well without watering, fertilising, fussing and can outgrow the weed colonies such as nettles. Am in over my head somewhat, but am inclined to experiment after a lifetime of restricted gardens and crappy soil, I have died and gone to heaven with 5 acres of neglected plantation in the most glorious part of a glorious county (Norfolk) - wet, wild, unpopulated (for the UK) with the epicentre of bird and butterfly life on my doorstep.

Maximillian sunflower might give nettles a run for their money, at least they'd be taller. Its a tall perennial prairie variety that keeps spreading out wider each year from underground roots, blooms like hollyhocks on tall stiff stalks, stunning in fall & loves moisture. They like to grow in ditches.

Leadplant (Amorpha canescens) forms strong tough rooted colonies in its plains habitat. Considered one of the most beautiful, ancient & classic elements of the prairie. A nitrogen fixing shrub, very pretty, soft grey leaves with purple blooms. 5ft x 5ft.

Less pretty IMO, Amorpha fruticosa 4- 8 ft but it loves moisture & likes to grow along streams.

Mexican Evening Primrose (Oenothera speciosa) will take over a large area. A good low ground cover type. Pink. Will even grow in parking lot strips. It grows too successfully for the average garden, a real romper but looks great in mass in a large situation.

wantanamara---I have to tell you, a favorite you sent me seeds of is Hairy Golden Aster. It blooms spring to fall, you can even walk on it so its a good ground cover, it naturalizes quickly, has blueish leaves with yellow flowers & fuzzy round seed heads all season, a nice effect. Low growing-- as tough as nails in dry 100+ temps. I love this plant for reliable constant color & filler no matter what conditions.

I say, TR, I am having my eyes opened (and head blown).....to say I have been bored by European gardening, especially the 'New Perennial' types is a massive understatement - I have been practically comatose. And I have been immune to nursery hybrids of this and that cultivar which are out of my budgets anyhow......
I don't know why so many US natives have failed to gain any traction at all in the UK - Our colonial pasts, history and all that, I guess, but everywhere, plant inventories in nurseries are shrinking, people stocking 'sure things'.....anyway, a new thrilling plant idea is always a huge pleasure - amorpha canescens.This is our wood in June, last year. We are clearing and cutting rides. We are surrounded by ancient meadow and phragmites, bounded by drainage ditches channelling water from the reed beds and summer grazing marshes. It is an iconic landscape of flat miles, enormous skies and water.

Uh, that is definitely lush & thick. The meadow sounds interesting, its nice you have a wooded backdrop for a flat area.

If you want to hear people really snub natives, start talking about adding prairie grasses. The word "weed" inevitably pops up as they roll their eyeballs & glaze over. Personally, I love the grasses as much as the forbs. I just transplanted several small blue grama grasses to a new hill so they will grow among some now established purple prairie clover, those will look very nice with thin blooming spikes peeking up through the grasses especially late afternoon. There's a big low growing mass of lacy fringed sage with all this. Makes me think I'm clever. I'm moving new starts of that sage elsewhere too. Its free plants so far this year. I believe its best to keep it simple, its a meadow garden not a collection of plants. Must keep repeating this.

My basic "plan", not that I actually plan so I won't lie about that, consists of separate mounded areas with gravel walks around them). In my opinion, its the grasses that tie it all together to make a complete picture, gives it that prairie flavor more than anything. Otherwise its just a lot of competing green plants with no definition. Whatever the time of year, the grasses always are doing something.

Another book I like for inspiration is John Greenlee's 'The American Meadow Garden'. This sort of thing is becoming popular in various areas of the US, such as California or anywhere that has water issues. You & wantanamara are dealing with a much larger area. I am only doing the lawn alternative version in the form of a prairie/meadow-- whatever.

This post was edited by TexasRanger10 on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 18:31

Um yes, grasses give that lovely sense of movement too. Meadow gardening has been huge here in the UK, with the wildflower meadow a desirable must-have. Love the idea of gravel paths between planted mounds. Although I have wide boundary edges before the treeline and have cut a large clearing, most of the real sun-loving meadow plants are not likely to do terrifically well.....but on the other hand, the high, very loose poplar canopy sustains surprisingly good light levels. So, I am attempting a sort of meadow styling in woodland setting, if you get the drift of my thinking. Obviously, carex sp. do well here, along with a few experimental miscanthus, while the darker parts are thick with umbellifers and silenes, stachys, valerian, ferns.

I suggest looking into what plants they have in the woodlands and grasslands of the Southeast. Gulf coast muhlies, penstemmon tennuis, I could definitely see those wild piedmont azaleas, not the hybrids in your woods. They are so much more subtle in their flower shape and shrub structure. They are beautifully airy. There is a great understory tree that makes me go into a state of lust that I can not grow here even in my dreams.. The fringe tree. Parsley Hawthorn, scarlet and the white buckeyes are other ones. I can't grow them where I am. I do have a buckeye here. Redbuds. Mexican plum trees. Ground orchids are also abundant in the east. The cross vine is endemic east into Florida and that will climb 50 feet.

They have grasslands in florida, Louisiana, Mississippi that would be a better match for you. Turkey foot or Bushy Bluestem would br a good grass for your wetlands. I can get seed for that in our wetlands. We have ditches too. LOL.. western Oregon and washington state would be a good weather match for you. AHH ferns. And the arisemas, But I am sure that all this has been in your investigation.

I do a lot of research on the Lady Bird Johnson's wildflower site. The plant Database has all sorts of avenues to go down.. Here is and easy way. The recommended species list has states that you can click on and an abbreviated species list comes up. More detail can be had by going to the database and listing parameters and specific colors, bloom times habits to cull the list. I can waste all sorts if time here..

Here is a link that might be useful: USA's states recommended species lists.