I tend to save it for things that would prefer a more acidic soil, but that's because I have a stockpile of other fertilizers I got on sale. It does seem to help somewhat.

Thanks -- so are you thinking it wouldn't hurt but would also not be as helpful as the Flowertone?

It depends on what you are planning on putting it on. It definitely helps my rugosa roses, which want a pH much closer to 6 than 7+. I wouldn't expect it to do much one way or the other for clematis or peonies which prefer a pH closer to 7 than 6.

Just for practicality, if you have a (relatively small) garden, and only want to buy one kind of fertilizer, it should be fine. If you are more like me, and should be going through a bag of Holly Tone, 3 bags of Rose Tone, and a small box of MiracleGro every year, it makes sense to divide things up by what needs the special, expensive stuff, and what will eat just about anything.

OK, thanks. I probably ought to be in the latter category but fertilizer eludes me, and thus far I've kind of been ignoring the whole issue, hoping it will go away. But I don't have enough compost for my whole garden and I think I need to start fertilizing more.

BTW my peonies and clematis are doing great and they don't look like they even need any fertilizer!

Since the vast majority of plants, including most perennials, would prefer slightly acidic soil conditions and Hollytone does contain some soil acidifiers, it is unlikely that applying this in modest amounts will cause any issues. My preference is for using compost - I've found that a routine mulching with compost eliminates the need for virtually any additional fertilizers. If you don't generate enough of your own, purchasing a commercial compost works equally well.

FWIW, it is difficult to accept that your soil is as neutral/alkaline as it seems to test out. Generally most of the east coast, especially close to urban centers, has slightly to moderately acidic soil and I'd be surprised to see yours test differently. Was this a home test or one done by a professional soil lab?

If you talk to Soil & Water, they will tell you in no uncertain terms that there are lime pockets around here. There is actual real, live caliche in Ulster Co, across the river from me - one of the few places it exists outside of Texas. The official Soil Survey for Dutchess Co. claims the highest pH recorded here was 7.8. I've had my soil tested three times for various reasons, and the pH always comes back 7.2.

This is a bit of a touchy subject for me since so many people are true believers in the acidic soil line, and it makes it very difficult to get reliable plant recommendations.

Mad Gallica has my number! The soil test was professionally done, and we are in Ulster County.

So MG, you do not use soil acidifiers for any plants except your rugosas and acid-loving shrubs and so forth? I have been using Hollytone with good results for my fothergilla, Japanese maples, my lone azalea, and my holly. I also apply a small amount of garden sulfur to the holly, fothergilla, and azalea.

I guess if I looked for a list of perennials that prefer alkaline soil or acidic soil that would be smart. Still, I find myself doubting that applying Hollytone would budge the PH very much, and even 6.5 - 7.00 is still pretty much neutral, right?

My current thinking on the subject is that most plants can easily handle a pH at least as high as 7.5. The difficulty is that in North America there is the idea that plants prefer either acidic/wet or alkaline/dry. So a plant that has a strong preference for a lot of water, but isn't really picky about pH gets put in the acidic/wet box along with plants that really do need acidic soil. It's not always easy to tease out which are which. A real eye-opener is to go through William Cullina's books on native plants and see how many eastern wildflowers are described as 'preferring alkaline soil'. My guess is they are things they really struggle with in Garden in the Woods, and that is what they are attributing the problems to.

Another theory of mine that so far seems to be working out, is that lime-intolerant plants apparently take up too many nutrients, literally calcifying their vascular system. So if a given plant can handle a lot of water, that will help them flush the excess minerals out of their system. This is my explanation of why I have 70 ft pin oaks in my backyard, even though by rights they should be dead of chlorosis by now. Their roots are in the water table. So I have swamp azaleas in the swamp, and magnolias and witch hazels and other things that might not be able to handle the dry-land soil conditions.

The flip side of this is wondering how many of the plants stuck in the alkaline/dry box may actually thrive here like lavender.

Interesting, thank you.

To Mad_Gallica and Jayco - I hope you're still tuned into this discussion! I am in Putnam County - just a little south of you. I am trying to learn about soil and how to amend - something I never had to do when I was gardening in Westchester with 8 inches of beautiful leaf mold on the surface. Things here in Putnam County are very different - mostly clay in my garden. I am trying to keep the plants in the "native" spectrum except for edibles and those occassional things I just gotta have. I would to find other local gardeners who understand and care about these issues to share experiences, but most people I have met are clueless. Do you have a community of like-minded gardeners? Good nurseries? A garden club? Thanks

Pin Oaks like the Black land Alkaline clays of Texas. Water is the issue here. They need about 30" of percip and some topsoil. They don't like to be right on top of Caliche. They give way to Escarpment Live Oaks when the topsoil thins and moisture dwindles where I am. I use compost religiously and pick my varieties of plants. No other way for a 8-8.5 ( maybe more). Ground sulfur is a temporary fix that has very minimal temporary effect. I collect rain water for watering and that makes such a difference. My ground water is atrocious in this area.

I went to school up in Duchess County years ago. I did not know this about NY.

If one can wait a year, one can dig in a good amount of composted hardwood much and stand back year and let the bugs do the rest. I have used expanded shale to crate some drainage. Every time I touch my clay spot, I do it with compost in hand. Humus breaks down quickly in our hot summers.

Speaking of Hollytone, I had a bag sitting on the floor of my garden shed. I was amazed to find a mouse hole in the bottom of a fairly new bag. They had been eating it!! I even found a pile of it off in one corner of the shed.

They have been eating my fire ant killer. Maybe it is a mouse killer too.

Years ago I had what must have been a large dog drag a bag of organic lawn fertilizer out of my carport into the neighbors backyard, and tear it open. It's no wonder, it smells just like dry dog kibble to me. I never again left a sack where something could get to it while living there ;)

Mice nested in and maybe ate most of a bag of MoleMax! I wonder if the moles like it as much as their rodent cousins. Good for Bonide's business, I guess.

I was researching a problem for a friend last week. She purchased a Red Maple a few years ago, and it has struggled with chlorosis since being planted. Turns out that Red Maples struggle with uptaking Magnesium in alkaline soils like we have here near Chicago (Mine is in the 7.2 range). I passed along to her my Hort professor's suggestion, which I will also share with you--the most cost effective, natural, and longest-lasting way to manage this situation is to use an acidifying mulch. For example, a mulch of pine needles, which would break down slowly and help temper the high alkalinity over time. It is far easier to moderate acidity in soils than to moderate alkalinity, as sulpher is very transient and leaves the soil fairly quickly. If your plants aren't showing any signs of stress that could be related to the alkalinity, I wouldn't recommend spending the extra money Hollytone.

Hi Ellessbee, welcome to the Hudson Valley! I wouldn't be at all sure your soil is alkaline -- I would send a soil sample to the Cornell Cooperative Extension for a proper analysis. I believe it's free. They also may have info regarding local garden events or clubs. You might also try the Hudson Valley Garden Association. But another good thing to do is to go around your local neighborhood and when you see a nice garden, try to talk to the gardener about what they've had good luck with. Most gardeners love to share! I am actually not very close to you, so I'm not sure my local info would be helpful, unless you want to drive up to New Paltz... In which case I'd be glad to give some local advice. :)