Twilight (Red): I bought 3 plants last year. Not one of them survived the summer. They were weak plants even when I purchased a gallon container plant. The plant did bloom before croaking, but the blooms fade to pink after only a few days. They hardly ever looked like the pictures used to con me into purchasing them. These plants would just turn black. I have never grown such sickly coneflowers before.

Sunrise (Pale Yellow): Distorted blooms, not healthy. Blooms fade to a pale yellow that looks dirty white. The blooms are only pretty for a day or two and then they look like a pastel sucky version of themselves. They did return from last year, but are now so small and not blooming. I pulled one out yesterday. I'm waiting on the other one, but so far these are weak.

Harvest Moon (Dark Yellow): I loved the bloom color at first, but they fade within a day or two and become this ugly pastel color. This year 2 plants returned out of 2 at least, but one has distorted blooms like the discontinued Sunset plants which had problems in tissue culture.

Sundown (Orange): Last year I bought several of these plants. They couldn't take the summer heat in Tennessee. Heck, our state is perfect for growing coneflowers. We even have one named after the state. I watered them and kept a few alive through the summer. The only problem is this year the blooms are not so orange anymore. They are a pinker color. They suck anyway because the orange color didn't last but a day or two and then it faded to an ugly pastel version of the original color.

After Midnight (Dark Purple): These were so finicky. It could rain and they would die. Seriously. I've never seen such week plants. I replaced 3 of them and only 1 is still alive this year. I bought 5 plants in all and only 1 returned. I like the blooms and stem color on these, but they do fade fast just like the other Big Sky series plants.

Summer Sky (The First bi-colored Coneflower): The color was disappointing. I agree it does appear to be two-toned, but not enough to justify a new plant variety. My Pallida plants have two-toned blooms and they are grown from seed. They are also better plants and don't fade as bad. They also return every year! This plant is the worst of all! I bought 3 and only one survived the summer and came back this year. It only has 3 stalks! LOL. This thing is pitiful. If it rains for a few days it starts dying. Seriously!

Summary: Big Sky Coneflowers are sucky, diseased plants that aren't even comparable to the wild species plants. Sure they have color for a day or two, but what good is it when they keep fading and getting diseases. All of my other coneflowers look great. My Razmatazz, Double Delight, Coconut Lime, and all wild varieties look healthier than ever. All of those returned and look beautiful. Were these things rushed to the market without any testing? I went to a greenhouse and was told they no longer carry these plants because people complained about them so much.

Advice: If you want an Orange coneflower, get Tiki Torch. I bought 4 of those this year and they are beautiful and don't fade. They are also healthier than the Big Sky series. As far as yellow goes, the only one I'd get is Paradoxa. It is tougher than Sunrise and Harvest Moon. I am so disappointed in these plants after spending so much money. They are a disaster.

Of the newer varieties, I only recommend the following:

Tiki Torch (Best color EVER!)I won't say for sure this one is perfect until next Spring if my 4 plants return...but so far this one is the biggest surprise of all. This has the prettiest orange blooms of any plant I've grown. They don't fade like the others. They get a darker, deeper color and then gradually fade to a lighter orange. Overall though they are the prettiest and healthiest of all the orange coneflowers.

Coconut Lime (Bought one small plant and it returned healthy) Some people don't like the blooms, but I think they are very unique and highly recommend them.

Double Delight (Best double pink. Healthy. Perfect) I bought one small plant through mail order. It performed better than the Big Sky Series plants that I bought in several local nurseries. That tells you how bad the Big Sky series is. Mail Order plants out perform plants that weren't shipped!

Razmatazz (Pink, Taller than double delight, but it's great too) Both of my plants returned. I made 3 new ones last week from basal cuttings. All 3 rooted. The blooms remind me of zinnias. The good thing is they return every year perfectly.

Harvest Moon seems to be the healthiest of the Big Sky Series. It seems to have problems with quilled petals like Sunset from time to time. I highly recommend that you don't grow Sunset. I think it was recalled. It sucks.

From my observations if you can get After Midnight to ever stop dying, it will become a pretty plant. I have one that survived and it looks ok for now, but I won't get my hopes up for this sucker. They dropped like flies last year.

Harvest Moon & Sundown plus Fragrant Angel(not a Big Sky but...) all died over the winter.

I chose to replace Harvest Moon. I loved the color and it held for me. I was dissatisfied with the color of Sunrise.

The ones that did not survive were also all from the same vendor. Out of 7 plants total bought from this vendor, only 3 survived.
Also, one of you sent an email and somehow it was delivered to me. Don't know why or how?????
I tried to purchase Tiki Torch but there was a crop failure, so it was not available. I would love to have one though!

I think the Tiki Torch looks close to the pictures on Terra Nova's site. It might actually be a prettier color. I can't imagine next year if they return and the blooms look even better. This has to be the best new plant of the year in my opinion. It's funny because while the buds are opening they look brownish, but the next day you will walk by and they will stand out this bright orange color unlike anything you've ever seen. I was amazed by them. I'm going to do some cuttings from them when they get larger. Note: The blooms will fade after a week or two, but it is more like the original coneflowers fade and not the quick ugly fade of the Big Sky Series.

Here's how I do it. Plant one in a sunny spot. When they start putting up the little plantlets around the crown, water them good and wait a few weeks. You might have to wait until next year for a young plant. Wiggle they plantlets back and forth and they will gently break from the mother plant. These will usually have one little root or two. I dip the bottoms in Clonex gel. I then take them and place them in Jiffy seed starting mix in 3 inch peat pots and place them in a clear plastic tote from Wal-mart with a fluorescent light over it. I leave them there for about 2 weeks if they have a root on them when started. It may take longer if there are no roots (up to 4 weeks.) I leave the light on 24/7. You can tell when they've rooted because the plants won't easily pull out of the mix. The humidity in the tote keeps them from wilting. Don't water them unless the top of the mix looks almost dry. Overwatering is usually the culprit if they don't root.

Harvest Moon -- planted a flat. ONE plant survived.
Sundown/Sunset -- got those mixed up, but I think I've only lost 1-2 plants out of 2 flats. The colors aren't as orange as I had hoped. They turned pink after the orange last year. The plants are just starting to bloom right now. Here's a photo from yesterday...can you tell me which one it is (Sundown or Sunset)? I think it is Sunset due to the pale color.

I think Tiki Torch will be my replacement...I'm using Tithonia in the butterfly garden this year to get that orange that I need.

I love echinacea rubinstern 'Ruby Star'. It's my favorite in places where I use this color scheme.

If we want to talk about disappointing plants...don't get me started on coreopsis! Terrible results from last year with Heaven's Gate, Sweet Dreams, Limerock Ruby and Creme Brulee. I lost only 1/3 of the CBs...lost all of the others.

Cameron

I went back to purchasing Primadona Rose this year.

pm2

Thought I was the only one having problems with them. Glad you posted. Other Echinaceas are just busting through and heading for glory!

Bought 2 Sunrise in Spring '06 and those are doing very well. In fact, I would describe them as extremely vigorous. I divided and moved one this Spring, and I think I've got some Sunrise seedlings out there too, but it's hard to tell because they are mixed with Echinacea purpurea. I like the color of Sunrise, and don't mind them fading a bit.

Then I bought 3 Summer Sky last summer - late, after they had bloomed and they were 1/2 off. I was worried they may not have had enough time to get established. But they are up and growing very well this Spring. And there are lots of little seedlings under these plants. Can't wait to see these bloom and wonder if they will fade or be mutant-like.

That's it though - I didn't go crazy on these hybrids. I like plain old Echinacea purpurea, and also have 'White Swan'.

Also planted "Frangrant Angel" and hope that is hardier than others experience with Big Sky series.

Will see how they do this year and check in spring so I'll have time to get one of older Echinaceas if they don't work out in Butterfly Garden.

One of the advantages of Big Sky series is smaller size for limited spaces and lack of full sun sites in which to locate older varieties. I've read some comments that Echinacea will "grow almost anywhere" but wary of putting them in less than 6 hours of good sunlight.

Then last week I was talking to a co worker and she planted 4 last year and only 2 came back.

Guess I'm holding my breath and planning for a hole next year LOL

That's the best looking Sundown I've seen. Mine look pitiful by comparison. I think they are very finicky about the weather. We had a lot of rain this spring and the Big Sky Series couldn't take it, but the old-fashioned varieties could.

Some company should trial these plants in gardens. I would like to hear what experts have to say. There is something about them that is weaker. They are a cross with Paradoxa, but even it is growing good in my garden. Could something be wrong with the tissue culture of these plants? I know Razmatazz is tissue cultured, but it's very healthy. Too many people have had trouble with these plants for me to believe it's not the plants. I have one After Midnight that came back this year. It looks healthy like your Sundown. One Harvest Moon looks healthy too, but the other one is deformed. I planted these in the ideal location too. I've had nothing but good luck with all the other varieties.

Juliet

Thanks
Karyn

They seemed slow to settle in, but did eventually. All bloomed and I was satisfied with what I saw. I held my breath all winter, wondering if they were going to come back. All did and each has already set buds, soon to bloom. I couldn't be more pleased with them, but I know I will worry every winter that may not be there the next spring. The older, pink ones such as Magness, or Bright Star were ones you could always count on.

Linda

I remember reading about people selling a supposedly blue peony called "Blue Lagoon" on Ebay. Auctions were bid up to ridiculous prices. Well, there is no such cultivar and there is no blue peony, and the poor suckers discovered after a year or 2 that the peonies were pink when they bloomed.

I think we hear dissatisfied voices more often than satisfied ones, so perhaps that's why it seems that "Too many people have had trouble with these plants." I am pretty certain that Saul Nursery tested them before launch.

ML

Over the past three years, I have lost 4 of 4 Sunrise, 4 of 4 Sunset, 2 of 2 Twilight, 2 of 2 Sundown, 3 of 3 Orange Meadowbrite, 1 of 2 Mango Meadowbright, 2 of 2 After Midnight, 2 of 2 Fatal Attraction. Both my Harvest Moon reappeared this year. However, one is a foot tall, and the other is 2" tall, and they are right next to each other! I also had Razzmatazz for two years, but it never did sprout its 'top hats' and eventually died. My only reliable bloomer is Fragrant Angel. It is now 5 years old and still going strong. And of course the old standby Ruby Star and White Swan.

This year, I got Tiki Torch, which is gorgeous, Raspberry Tart, Coconut Lime and Virgin. I am hoping that at least one of these plants lives to next year.

I do not mind spending a bit more for an unusual or new variety, but I expect that plant to at least live, even if its blooms are not what I expected. I have bought dozens of new varieties of heucheras over the last few years and only lost one. But as for the new echinaceas, maybe they need to start selling them as annuals.

But you don't want to get me started on coreopsis either. . . .

Deanna

As for me, I only have 1 of the Big Sky series of Echinacea. I think I bought Sunset? It's the bi-colored one that starts orange but sort of becomes more purplish. In any case, I thought for sure it was dead this spring and almost pulled it out. Fortunately, I'm a procrastinator because all of the sudden, it leafed out and it looks beautiful now. It's thick and healthy and has a number of buds on it. It's smaller than a seed-variety coneflower but that's not necessarily bad.

I wonder if my arid climate is more hospitable to coneflowers? Perhaps they don't appreciate humidity?

I have some Tiki Torch, Coconut Lime and most of the other Terra Nova plants on my back patio right now. I'm joined a plant coop so they are plug sized but it has been a great way to get the new stuff at a reasonable price. I also ordered a few more of the Big Sky Series so I guess I'll find out first hand if there's a significant difference in my climate with these.

There are 3 Homestead Purple verbena surrounding the hypericum that have been blooming continuously...I need to deadhead now.

Am I missing something? Are you really taking cuttings, or just waiting until the plant makes babies?

The easiest way is to remove the side shoots, but you can root cuttings if you try hard enough. I'm experimenting with this chemical called Configure. It forces coneflowers to put up many side shoots. Let's just say after 5 days, I'm very impressed!

Linda

On another note, I had some beautiful Tennessee coneflowers for two years. They all died rather suddenly. Any ideas / experience on why or how to avoid this again would be greatly appreciated. THey are one of my favorite coneflowers.

Here's some pics:

Tiki Torch

After Midnight

The Plant Geek
www.confessionsofaplantgeek.blogspot.com

I am sticking to the straight species E. purpurea, and its cultivars. I love White Swan, am starting others from seed - Pow wow wild berry, Primadonna White, etc., and bought some 'Prairie Splendor' from Bluestone this year.

Also I have one small bloom on the E. paradoxa this year, started from seed (your seeds E-maniac).

I posted this on a previous thread a couple of weeks ago:

This is a volunteer from Sundown. The only other Echincea anywhere near it on this side of the house is Paradoxa. I suspect that it is a cross between Paradoxa and Sundown. The color has held well in these last couple of weeks, and there are tons of flowers that have opened on this 43 inch tall plant. The cone smells like paradoxa and has the same hard feel.

So, I have to disagree - I love the Big Sky Series Echies.

Linda

As to ones that you never see at local garden centers, box stores, etc, there are new varieties of Echinacea coming out every year now, and I've gotten to the point that I can no longer keep up with them and keep them all straight as to which is which color. Maybe old age....

I still would like to find E. Pink Poodle, but I've read so many posts about it sometimes not looking at all like the picture. Still, I'd love to give it a try!

Linda

I did actually get one seedling I liked, it looked as though Sunrise had crossed with the Echinacea Rocky Tops, which I believe is Tennessee Coneflower? It had the same flower shape as E. tennesseensis but was much taller. Flowers were great for cutting! Unfortunately the rampaging voles ate that one this past winter. :(

I think you might be right about crossing the Big Sky plants with E. Paradoxa. You might get something really special and different. I have a friend who has offered to grow out some of the seeds from my tangerine orange seedling just to see what we get. I'm definitely taking her up on it. Since Paradoxa has been blooming about the same time as this seedling, maybe more crossing has taken place by the bees. You just never know.

It's really awful that the voles ate your tall cross. It sounds like a really nice plant and I love the idea of the tall flowers.

Linda

Linda

Plants that thrive: Razzamatazz, Coconut Lime, Champagne Bubbles, Hope, Avalanche, White Swan. Hot Papaya looks to be vigorous.

It is true Linlily, that these plants have done okay for a few people, and that there is a long list of other species' fancy cultivars that have failed for me too. IMO, the rate of failure of the new Echinaceas is too high to justify the expense. I don't plan on buying any more of them until (maybe) they have proven their staying power.

In the meantime, my seedlings of Echinacea Pow Wow Wild Berry, Primadonna White, and Bravado are overall doing very well. We'll see how they do - it's kind of an experiment, but a lot less expensive one than buying plants.