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| Starting a new bed facing the patio. It will be raised bed in full sun mostly and will get regular water from sprinklers. I plan to plant perennials for multi season interest. Was thinking of having concentric rows based on height. For edging I am starting with Dianthus coconut punch, gaillardia peach, phlox scarlet flame.....etc you get the idea. Probably at the back will be Echinaceas like white swan. In between other plants I currrently have are campanula glomerata alba, Penstemon Huster red and looking for amsonia blue ice.
The question is, I plan to plant a minimum of three of each plant if not more. Should all three be planted together or should they be spaced at regular intervals in the bed for maximum effect? The bed itself is not very big, Maybe six feet deep at the widest point (remember its semi-circular) and about 7 feet wide. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Yes, if you want plant 3 together for smaller plants. Otherwise, you don't need 3 in a small 6'x 7' bed. Repeating them is up to you, but spacing them out doesn't do much in a small bed. Plants are either fillers, spillers, or spikes... Plant any way it pleases you because it's yours and since it's near your patio you might want to showcase your favorite plants. Planning for multiseason interest is a great idea! Make sure to leave room in front for mid summer & fall bloomers to block the fading early summer & spring bloomers. Also, when cut back hard after bloom that plant will allow view of the plant behind it, so Oriental Poppy or Columbine can be in front of something else. Also, I've noticed that what is in bloom is often what is in stock, so you might have trouble finding spring bloomers right now, but could leave a spot for them to be planted in spring. |
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| I have noticed that whats not in bloom (or blooms have passed) is more likely on sale, so now I have a pot collection of nursery rejects that will make up my new bed. Some purchased for as little as 99 cents..... I will only partially plant this year and add on next spring. The problem will be plants that are purchased in larger pots might overwhelm some of the smaller starters. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 26, 11 at 18:26
| place favorite chair.. in many favored places .... on the patio ... and figure out where the tall ones can go.. and where you need shorter ones for the long view ... other than that suggestion ... its all personal choice.. 1 .. 3.. whatever makes your toes tingle.. you can always fix mistakes next season .. but that 4 foot mistake.. blocking the entire landscape of the yard.. would not make it to next season in my world.. lol ... ken |
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| I've just finished making the bed, took idea from another poster here, I chopped up the sod into blocks, turned it upside down then added layers of topsoil and then topped it with compost. I'm guessing the soil needs to settle and need the sod blocks to breakdown a bit (plenty of earthworms here). Question is how long do I wait to plant in this bed? As I said, I have perennials in pots, some larger but some smaller starters that I put into pots 2-3 weeks ago. How late can I wait to plant to ensure reasonable chances of survival for next year? Mid august? Late august? |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Wed, Jul 27, 11 at 12:53
| i would plant in sept/early october .... definitely not august ... warm days.. with cool nights is great root growing time ... and in our beloved MI .... with its ground freeze.. heave is going to be an issue ... depending on the size of the plants ... i am not sure you are going to be happy.. trying to dig holes thru that sod .... sharpen your shovel on a grinding wheel or with a file.. to cut thru the stuff ... a good local hardware store might do it for a few bucks ... its the difference between cutting a tomato with a sharp knife and a butter knife .. ken |
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| Thanks Ken. I actually have the bed ready to go. Cutting through the sod was only bad in certain spots but overall not terrible. I think it helped having a newish shovel. I have already layered topsoil and added compost layer as well. Need the sod to break down a bit before I plant anything so I will wait till September as suggested.....not easy as I'm not the most patient person but it will probably help the smaller plants grow in size while in the pots. |
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- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Jul 27, 11 at 16:15
| I hope the grass is actually dead. Not all grasses will be killed that easily. |
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| The grass seems to die easily enough if I don't water the lawn. Of course now it will grow like weeds in my new bed just to spite me..... Different question, I was planning on making this bed without any mulch. I was just going to top dress with compost every spring. However, with michigan winters, is it likely I would lost more plants this way? |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Fri, Jul 29, 11 at 14:22
| ya know.. you can sharpen a shovel.. new or old.. just like a knife .... it makes quite an unbelievable difference when shaving grass .... and many other cutting jobs.. a file or a grinding wheel makes it easy ... but i apparently said this all before.. duh .. lol ... most things you buy right now.. will be pot bound.. and hence.. will need severe root untangling .... which will shock the plant.. and better to shock the plant when the nights are cool ... rather than in august.. but all that does NOT mean you cant start buying things .... just keep pots out of full sun.. until proper planting time ... small pots with large root masses inside.. can get really hot in sun ... to the detriment of the plants ... roots like damp coolness.. not hot .. hot .. hot .. you can even stick pots and all in your bed.. for design ideas.. since the pots will be shaded by mother earth ... and move them around until you find the placement that makes you happy ... and then when the time comes.. plant permanently .... ken |
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| So Do you think I should mulch or is compost top dressing enough |
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| You can just use 2-4" of compost as mulch (not touching stems) to feed your soil & help keep it moist especially right after planting when roots are establishing. In your climate I think it's suggested that you add mulch after the ground freezes. My climate is more mild with wet winters/dry summers, but I still mulch gardens in early spring & again in fall after things are cut back usually with our compost from manures + bedding. The heavy feeders will get a handful of alfalfa pellets or small shovel of rabbit manure in spring. Once the manures are composted with the bedding the compost is a good soil conditioner, but I don't expect it to be high nitrogen. I also have plants closely spaced & underplant with groundcovers, so during the growing season you really don't see the mulch. In the fall when the herbaceous things die back the evergreens show up better & I may spread a bit of wood chip mulch from tree trimmers. Someone in your area might explain what mulch is best & when to apply it. You might need to start another thread. Hope that helps~Corrine |
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| I personally would mulch, you could just use chopped up leaves or even dried grass, just something to help the ground not heave them out in the spring. Flora |
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| mulch it is then. Thanks |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 14:43
| So Do you think I should mulch or is compost top dressing enough ==>>> well ... if you define the terms.. you will know what to use ... COMPOST is a soil amendment applied to the top of the soil.. TO IMPROVE the soil ... with an added benefit of being a very lightweight mulch ... it breaks down incredibly fast.. and has to be reapplied at least every year ... if not twice a year .. and it does not retard weed germination ... MULCH .. is a soil covering.. to keep the soil cooler.. and damp for optimum root growth.. reduce watering ... and to reduce the weeds you will forever be pulling out of unmulched soil ... depending on type and application .. it can last upwards of 5 years ... once you think of those words as 2 different things.. then perhaps using google and reading up on them .. will make a bit more sense ... in my world.. i hate weed pulling.. and i would recommend a hardwood or cedar mulch.. or a bark mulch ... down in livonia i used to buy cedar chunks .... did you ever tell me where you are in MI ... or did i kill that brain cell .. lol ... ken |
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| yes, am in MI. I am aware of the difference between mulch and compost and their uses. I swear I have seen a number of posters on here say that they top dress with compost once a year and don't need mulch. Of course those might be in warmer climates. This might be a stupid question, but if you have a layer of mulch, how do you top dress with compost? It doesn;t make sense to just dump compost on top of the mulch. Are people then really pulling back the mulch to put down compost? |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 16:18
| if you have what one might call a country garden.. cottage garden.. so jammed with plants.. that you see no soil ... a compost can be applied in spring.. and everything just covers it all up ... if you have a OCD or anal retentive garden.. where everything is precisely 12 inches apart ... with no leaf touching.. you either mulch to hold down the weeds.. or .. being AR or OCD .. are out there for hours per week.. using tweezers pulling out all the germinating seed ... properly cooked.. or steamed compost.. achieves temps to kill all the seed contained therein ... simply rotting the compost.. does not.. and every single seed in it.. will germinate ... back in the day ... i would grind up all the leaves in October.. and apply it about 6 inches deep on the beds ... by spring.. it would be about 3 inches.. and by sept next.. gone .... except for the excersize.. it was free .. and great ... moved to 5 acres.. and there are not enough trees in the county.. nor the will on my part.. to do the job.. along comes tree guys and free wood chips ... its all about what is available.. and how you want to use it ken |
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| Well with all the cool weather we've been having lately, I finished the bed and planted almost everything. Its a cottage style bed so the plants are placed closer than I normally would although the picture makes them look even closer. Plus most are already large plants from late summer sales at local nurseries. No miniature starts from mail order sites. Still we'll find out next year if I need to rework it. In the front is moss phlox scarlet (99 cents each!) and iberis alexander white. Behind is Dianthus coconut punch and telstar scarlet. Behind that are two Campanula glomerata alba followed by Coreopsis show stopper and Amsonia blue ice at either side. At either corner is Helianthus low down with two each of Echinacea pow wow wildberry and Penstemon husker red at the back. The last row is incomplete and will be added in spring. Has to be tall narrow perennials, probably echinacea. The empty spaces in the front will get gaillardia peach/apricot in the spring.  |
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| Nice job, at first I didn't like the symmetrical look but the more I looked the more I liked it. |
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| Yes, can you tell I'm obsessed with symmetry? Needless to say plants don't just fit into neat little spaces so it will be interesting to see how this bed matures. I decided I'm going to try this approach first and if needed, go back to grouping similar plants together. |
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| Nice choices. Please post next summer too so we can see how it has grown. To keep grass out, you will want to cut in an edge. The trench will keep the grass in the lawn rather than migrating into your new bed and will need renewing once or twice a year. (Alternatively, bury an edging strip.) Otherwise it will be a never-ending and mostly unsuccessful battle to keep the grass and garden separate. |
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| yep was just looking up on youtube how to edge the bed. I think I will go with the trench as opposed to an edging strip. |
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