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mxk3

Echs aster yellows

mxk3 z5b_MI
10 years ago

I think my lovely White Swans now have aster yellows - noticed some of the blooms that are opening have thin, spike-like petals and some just have brown/orange balls with no petals. I'll keep an eye on them as a few more flowers open and see what develops - maybe just an oddity (but probably not...). All of my echs were robust and healthy last year, so I'm surprised at this.

Anyway, my question is - if this is indeed asters yellow, what is the chance all my other echs will also become infected? Of course I will rip out the whole planting in this area, but I have a beloved Pink Poodle ~50' away, and a lush planting of echs on the other side of the house that I hate to rip out unless necessary.

Updated with photos:
{{gwi:249777}}

{{gwi:249778}}

{{gwi:249779}}

I think this single plant of Magnus may be okay - ?, is away from the White Swan:
{{gwi:249780}}

This post was edited by mxk3 on Fri, Jul 5, 13 at 20:52

Comments (24)

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    10 years ago

    Wish I could be of help. All of mine went down from asters yellow. A few were infected a year previous. Didn't know of asters yellow then maybe if I had taken them out right away the others would have lived. I now have more asters than I should. Hope they don't become infected ever! I'm so sorry about your echs. This is sad.

  • trovesoftrilliums
    10 years ago

    Do you have a good magnifying glass?

    I would check for mites--looks like they might be visible with a magnifying glass or even just careful inspection.

    Good luck!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Mite picture

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Updated with photos in first post

  • Nevermore44 - 6a
    10 years ago

    I would say that's its just a case of Eriophyid Mites and that's it. Just cut off infected blooms and buds (you can see them not developing right fairly early in the game). Then come fall... remove all plant litter around the plant to try and get the overwinter end eggs. On a few plants that I have had bad infections, I end up actually cutting the plant back a bit early in the fall too... Plus I completely remove and replace the mulch under the plant to get every bit of potential egg hiding spot.

    Again do some other searches on controls... But I don't believe there are any systemics that do anything (ie bayer 3in 1)

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, THE NERVE of the beasts... LOL!

    I hope it's just mites and not the dreaded yellows. I'll pull out a mag glass and try to find any evidence of mites.

  • sunnyborders
    10 years ago

    Tried. Read Eriophyid mites need a microscope to be seen.

    Coneflower rosette mite was new on me till very recently.
    The flower deformation I had this year on the 'Hot Papaya'
    (see below) looks exactly the same as the flower deformation I had the previous year on 'Sundown'. The plants involved looked otherwise quite healthy.

    This post was edited by SunnyBorders on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 20:48

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    10 years ago

    'Sunny', you are back! I have been "looking" for you.

    I am soon to pull out all of my coneflowers. I am convinced that most of the issues we are seeing right now are due to "asters yellow". Last year my echs were affected much later in the season.

  • sunnyborders
    10 years ago

    Hi Rouge,

    I'm quite confused about my echinacea.

    The only problem has been with flower formation.
    Otherwise the plants have looked fine.

    I completely removed the 'Sundown' (1 plant) last fall and always remove all perennial material above the surface in later fall and don't use mulch.

    The affected 'Hot Papaya' (3 plants) were in the same bed, a foot or so away from the 'Sundown'.

    I'm not buying any echinacea for gardens this year.

  • trovesoftrilliums
    10 years ago

    I was quite worried I had aster yellows on my coneflowers. I find the pics online of AY vs. mites hard to discern a difference. I cut a deformed bud in half an under a microscope was able to see the mites in the bud. My buds had that overgrown look but no green petals or obviously green tufts. The tufts were more varied in color, some green but also red and pink.

  • sunnyborders
    10 years ago

    Very interesting, TST. The relevant mites are distinctive in having four, not six, legs.

    I'm assuming that the coneflower rosette mites originated with horticultural stock. Perhaps they are a result of over breeding coneflowers for a few traits (e.g. colour, flower shape) resulting in otherwise weakened plants (e.g. with poor pest resistance).

    Have read that the mites have now moved out to affect some wild populations of coneflowers.

  • rouge21_gw (CDN Z5b/6a)
    10 years ago

    The only problem has been with flower formation.
    Otherwise the plants have looked fine.

    Mine also. From all that I have read re AY, the foliage is unaffected. The flowers emerge deformed or w/o petals. At this point I don't really care if it is AY or mites or etc. This is not the first year this has happened to most of my coneflowers. So out they will come.

  • Nevermore44 - 6a
    10 years ago

    This is asters yellow in echinacea.. then then in some gloriosa daisies

    Mites don't cause the green petals. There's enough of a difference between mites and asters to say your plants are just mite infected.

    {{gwi:249782}}

    {{gwi:249784}}

    {{gwi:249786}}

  • sunnyborders
    10 years ago

    Thank you NM44.

    Have read of several approaches with treating coneflower rosette mites.

    I do mixed sunshine perennial gardening and figure that as long as the perennials in a bed have sun, adequate watering (if needed), good soil and good plant hygiene, the rest is up to them.

    I've never in 20 years of maintaining such beds ever had to use insecticides (even insecticidal soap) (or herbicides), so as far as I'm concerned the "just mites" have struck a fatal blow against my Echinacea in the same way that lily beetles struck a fatal blow against my former Lilium and related plants.

    Thinking that as coneflower rosette mites are so plant specific (only affect Echinacea), there's no harm in eliminating plants when, and if, they become infected.

  • Nevermore44 - 6a
    10 years ago

    I don't use insecticides either and don't plan on it.... I don't keep fussy plants either (i tried roses before and gave it up quickly.. too much work). But for the echinacea, I have had infected plants that i just remove the infected blooms as i saw them ... without going to extra step of "litter removal" later in the year.... and then later that same year or the next season they bloom out just fine. For me is on par with the work of other garden jobs... without being too much of a pain.

    I am partial to echs though... so my view is most likely skewed a bit.

    {{gwi:249787}}

  • sunnyborders
    10 years ago

    Thanks, NM44.

    Agree Echinacea are useful plants.

    Love your border!

    This post was edited by SunnyBorders on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 19:49

  • miclino
    10 years ago

    Well I just tossed my newly purchased E. green envy that I had looked forward to all spring. It was a light green color and had one deformed bud but that was all it took to make me get rid of it after reading this thread

  • mxk3 z5b_MI
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Glad I posted - seems you guys think it's mites, which I can deal with, I feel relieved. Actually, now that those clumps are really coming into flower, most of the heads look pretty good - not perfect but good. I'll just make sure to clean up thoroughly in the fall.

  • summerstar
    10 years ago

    Nevermore44,

    You're saying you keep the plants, just remove the bad flower buds? How long have you been doing this? Many of the flowers on the remainder of the plant are fine?

    If the results are fairly good maybe I'll try it too. I really don't want to dig out all my coneflowers! When the buds start to open next spring, I'll cut off anything suspicious. It's worth a try. Were half the flowers okay on affected plants? If so, it sure would be worth a try.

  • Nevermore44 - 6a
    10 years ago

    I had a ech that was highly infected last summer fall. About 90% of the late summer into fall blooms where mite infected. I removed every single bloom that showed signs and trimmed it to the ground a bit early last fall. I didn't remove the leaf mulch around the plant like you could try to get any eggs... But this year the plant has only had a smal fraction of infected blooms... The rest are just fine and the plant is growing very well.

    I see plants being sold tha are obviously infected ... So you would have to swear off the new coneflowers if you didn't want any chance of mites.... Or grow all from seed.... Which is a very viable option now with the great colors you can get from the 'Cheyenne spirit' seed line.

  • summerstar
    10 years ago

    Hey Nevermore, thanks for replying back. Following up on your experience, I'm thinking that finding, cutting, and discarding all deformed blooms in the early summer may catch the mites IN the plant BEFORE they hatch and lay eggs. Whudyathink?

    It worked for you and makes sense. The whole plant isn't the problem, it's the eggs, so I think I'll keep my cone flowers and see what happens next year. If it's fairly successful, I'll repeat the process. Besides, what can a gardener plant to replace cone flowers anyway?? Again, thanks for writing back and sharing your experience Nevermore. It could prove to be very helpful to many who read this form.

    Happy gardening to all!

  • miclino
    10 years ago

    Please tell me this is not the first sign of aster yellow? This is only on two of 30-40 flowers on this clump. But I'm scared after reading this thread. The flowers are not deformed.

  • Nevermore44 - 6a
    10 years ago

    Mites (my opinion)

  • summerstar
    10 years ago

    Miclino, don't get upset! I really don't think it's aster yellows. Google "pictures of aster yellows" and you'll see. I believe it's mites.

    Read the message from me that's right above your own post. Nevermore44 has treated her or his cone flowers this way and has had good results, so cheer up and don't panic. Folks posting here pass on lots of good experience. Just read what they suggest and Google pictures of aster yellows. It's appearance is not at all like your flowers.

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