reliable

Seeders: I used to use Knautia macedonica, but found it could be a terrible seeder. Am very cautious in using perennials like malva moschata and Lychnis coronaria for the same season.

Runners: Perennials like Kalimeris incisa got too much for me.

Diseases/pests: Don't use Lilium any more (asiatic/oriental lilies, toadlilies and fritillaria). So happy to see no lily beetle damage.

Inconvenient: Difficulty with roses within mixed perennial beds; they rip your arms when you work in the bed, so don't use them any more in such a location.

I certainly agree that the use of perennials should be commensurate with the available time, knowledge, energy level, physical health/endurance and bank account of the gardener.

Re garden phlox: there some perennials I'd always go out of my way to use, e.g. garden phlox.

Picture below: in our garden (August 5, 2013). Only criticism from me is perhaps too much 'Peppermint Twist' (pinwheel, with reversions back to 'Candy Floss'). Find that it's quite a vigorous spreader. As always, will just reduce it/rein it in in for next year.

Think that in mixed perennial gardening if you have too much of one useful perennial, you don't have enough of another.

Campanula persicifolia for the same reason. I've just made sure to keep vigilant about cutting back both of those. Both add too much to the spring garden to get rid of them entirely.

Roses- too much trouble for me. I'm not getting rid of any ((tho I got my eyeball on YOU Windermere!!)), but I surely am not getting any more!

Echinacea- they seem to dwindle away after a few years. Short lived plants irk me! LOL. I'll go so far to say that I don't grow short lived plants on purpose anymore. Biennials either for the most part.

That is it for now, though I'm sure I will think of others after I post this! ;-)
CMK

Lavender-I have a 7 year old plant that has gotten huge over the years and takes over a large area of a mixed bed. It is from a trade and did not come with a name, so I don't know exactly which variety it is. The bottom is very woody, as I understand it this is how they grow in the wild. And it always grows so big, it falls over on to the driveway. I do love the fragrance, and the bees seem to love it too. I have thought of digging up this plant this fall, and replanting with a new one in the spring -virtually turning it into an annual. Not sure exactly what I'm going to do, but I may dig it out this fall and then decide if I'm replacing it with another one.

While I LOVE my May Night Salvia, the smell is driving me crazy. I have problems with neighborhood cats using my flower beds as a toilet as it is, and the May Night does not help matters any. Dead heading it and working around it is starting to really bother me.

I have a Dubonnet Butterfly bush and is on the corner of a mixed bed and it is HUGE. Must be 10 feet tall and nearly as wide. It shades the bed next to it and again, falls onto the driveway. I may remove it and replant with a smaller variety. Cutting it back severely in the spring has not stopped it from gaining too much height and width. My next door neighbor has a white one and it never gets that tall or wide, so I may consider replacing it with a white one.

Crocosmia - Lucifer was here when moved in. Too tall and it spread like crazy. I received Emily Mackenzie in a trade last fall, and planted a few-just a FEW. While I love the color and the height, it has already spread way too far into the mixed bed. Not sure if I'm going to just remove a lot of it and keep a few of if I'm taking it all out.

Tall Garden Phlox-I may dig out most of my plants and replace with new ones in the spring. Mine have reseeded themselves, causing new colors in areas where I wanted just the original plant. And every year now, I get some powdery mildew. Maybe I just need to replace mine every few years to keep them healthy and the original plant completely the original color and variety. I do dead head but maybe not soon enough. And I do clean up the dead foliage before winter too.

Linda

The garden I went to with runaway seeding of Knautia had more sandy soil than I'm used to and was not well watered by the owner.

I too love May Night ('Mainacht'), plus several other such Salvia cultivars. Such a useful perennial here. Deadheading produces blooms all summer. Don't like the smell of it either, but find it better than that of some Shastra daisies (which I still use). Pooping cats; pity we can't trap their owners!

I just periodically replace lavenders 'Muntead' and 'Hidcote Blue'.

'Lucifer' isn't such a vigorous spreader in our garden and 'Emily MacKenzie', on several occasions, has not survived the winter. Butterfly bush is killed to ground level in winter, here, and apparently consequently typically doesn't survive more than four or five years.

Re phlox, one of my favourite garden perennials, I have some tall old No Name phlox that seldom seed (or at least get a chance to), bloom a long time and are not too mildew prone (though I monitor and cut them back, re mildew, as needed). They're ones I bought at the local horticultural society spring sale (= presumably selected by hands-on gardeners over a period of time). They provide the height and robustness that I haven't seen yet in some of the newer phlox. I do divide them as needed.

2.) Salvia - I will keep 'Black and Blue.' The others are banned from my garden. They just don't bloom long enough. Agastache is replacing them. It blooms all summer constantly.

3.) Amsonia hubrichtii. This thing is ugly. I can't wait to rip it out. It looks like a weed and never gets the color it's supposed to.

4.) 'Rozanne' cranesbill - this plant is a mess. It rambles all over and makes the flower bed look like a cyclone hit it. It just looks messy!

5.) Joe Pye Weed - I just think it's ugly. It really does look like a weed.

On the one hand, it's hardy and flowers prolifically, for a long time, but as you say it's a real flopper. I remember reading once that it is much better than 'Johnson's Blue'. From experience, however, it is easier to stake 'Johnson's Blue' than 'Rozanne'.

I am tired of some plants that are too useful to let go of, Hardy Geraniums, Heuchera and Lamium are three.

I have eliminated….

Dianthus, I used to really enjoy starting from seed and collecting seed, but I’ve moved away from any seed collecting. I used Dianthus as an edger in the sun, but it doesn’t look good to me unless I am constantly deadheading it.

Nepetas, if I think of something to replace those with, they may be out. They are long blooming, which is why I have them, but they flop in my conditions and cutting them back doesn’t produce much of a rebloom for me.

Perennial Rudbeckia spread so fast, it overran everything else in the bed.

Shasta Daisy, I was surprised they had a short bloom period for me and cutting back did not produce much of a rebloom and didn’t look good the rest of the season.

Peonies, disappointed me every year, with such a short bloom period to start with and if it rained while they were in bloom, I could get 4 days of bloom and that’s it. I would have them if I had space to let them sit without noticing them.

Lavender. Love lavender and would love to collect the blooms for sachets etc, but I have loamy clay and I think it prefers more sandy soil. I don't have room for enough of it anyway.

I also now have my eye on Perovskia, due to flopping, but I may try to replace that with a different variety.

Haven’t given up on Roses yet. :-)

I look forward to the winter break too, like ninamarie.

Fast forward to our move to Kansas, and no matter how well I amend the soil or how much I baby them, I end up with crispy stems with sickly blooms at the tips. I don't know why our next door neighbor has nice ones -- and she can't explain it either because we use all the same amendments! So I had to give up on them.

I dug some out of my parents garden this past spring just to save them before the house gets sold. They were magnificent this summer with none of the usual issues. Now I have to rethink my "I can't grow phlox" notion.

Rats!

I hate when I prove myself wrong.

Kevin

Oh yes, Monarda. It's been years since I've grown it and even though I was tempted to try it again, after reading all the issues from growers on the forum, it's still on my banned list.

I also have 'David' Phlox which I don't find fragrant, which was disappointing and I have 'Nora Leigh' which reverted to plain foliage. I keep thinking I should keep them, but really I don't have other plants that compliment them and I'm thinking of replacing them too.

Below 'Gardenview Scarlet' (July 6, 2012).

Pulled out too much last year, so going to have to wait for more till next year.

Never had 'Nora Leigh' revert.

How long have you grown 'Nora Leigh' without it reverting? I seem to remember mine reverted after a particularly difficult winter with little snow cover.

I wonder if it could be location/growing conditions?

Still, I'm already noticing reversions on several of the variegate 'Shockwave' I bought last year.

Maybe the stock then?

I never can grow Gaillardia or Crocosmia---- even though I love them, every single one died in my yard.

Russia Sage and Oenothera Siskyou run amok in the garden ---- I'm constantly ripping these out. I actually like the look of them, but my soil is too rich and the Russian Sage flops over. I've tried to isolate them --- it's an ongoing battle.

I gave up on Monarda and all varieties of Shasta Daisy because they were even more out of control. My yard is just too small to contain them.

Japanese Iris --- love them! But I had to pull out about five varieties and give them away --- they became so huge and blocked our view of the river. Kept just one favorite plant and moved it to the side yard where it does well and its size is no issue.

I take photos of my gardens each year. It's amazing how much they've changed with time----

Due to my tastes changing?
Or is it the fact that I'm getting older and no longer willing to fight?

Molie

My 'Gardenview Scarlet' Monarda has spread like crazy. I wonder if cultivars vary with regards to rampant running or if it has to do with lean vs. rich soil? I've read that they are nutrient hogs and tend to spread a lot when looking for more "food". Perhaps they do this when soil is particularly on the lean side and less when naturally rich or frequently enriched??
CMK

Mollie, I have a small yard too. I’ve been very careful not to attempt anything that travels because I just don’t have the energy to keep dealing with them. I didn’t know that about Japanese Iris and they are so pretty, too.

What would we do without cameras, because you are right, I would not notice how amazing the changes are as well without them. I know for me, it has been performance that has made so many changes in my garden. I have a lot of dryness and not everything tolerates that, but I kept trying them anyway. And maturity that also makes big changes. I do have one all perennial bed that is definitely just my tastes changing and it is so different from one year to the next.

CMK, I have clay soil and I keep that bed moderately watered, so I was expecting the Monarda to travel, but it didn’t, so I’m not sure, I wonder if I just got a dud.

Someone I like gave me a hardy cactus and I couldn’t keep it alive and I still feel guilty about it. I think my soil is too heavy. I never thought about weeding around it. Ouch. (g)

Shasta Daisys are fine with me even though they bloom for such a short while --- they look great with the delphs and the baptisia. Those are two perennials I would never be without.

Have new dwarf asters this year and think I'm going to love these --- nice 12" mounds and blooms right now in a bed with the phlox that haven't stopped blooming.

CMK, my view with running 'Gardenview Scarlet' in our garden is that it's always moving towards the front of the perennial bed; notably to more sun.

Our one Monarda 'Fireball' is not such a runner.

I learned on the Russian Sage to prune it way back and it doesn't get nearly as floppy. However the self-seeding is an issue.

Novae-Angliae bloom nicely the first year, the they become duds.

Oenothera siskiyou is outa control. I cannot get rid of it. That's the one I would like to put in my neighbor's yard (he's such a dork).

There are more, I am sure, but those are the ones that come quickly to my old mind.

Jim

I divide them and upgrade the soil approximately every four years.

Below (Oct 7, 2012):

SBorders, that is a great photo of your asters! I’m trying to figure out if that is a first floor window that they are topping out at? How tall are they? Beautiful display! And what do you do to upgrade the soil?

Japanese iris. Also too short a bloom period.

Hybrid roses. Hate that blackspot. I'm sticking with rugosa roses that smell heavenly and grow like steel.

Helenium. Just doesn't want to winter over here.

Hollyhocks. Too much rust and the deer eat them where I want to grow them (outside my fenced-in garden). But I love them.

Polemonium. Doesn't want to winter over here, either.

It is the ground floor and I'd say the aster reaches about six foot. A robust No Name, purchased about 15 years ago, I've been able to spread it between several gardens.

Currently I'm using mushroom compost; I'm assuming it's weed free without any chemical treatment.

Guess we should be looking at this in statistical terms.
Then again maybe we shouldn't waste the time!

Thanks PM.
Will follow the advice.

Removed due to insect or disease issues:
Later blooming roses due to Japanese beetles and rose chafers
Lilies (Asiatic and Oriental) and Fritillaria due to red lily beetles, though I will add them again if the controlling insects spread here

Removed due to overly enthusiastically spreading roots:
Evening primrose
Beebalm
Mint
Periwinkle

Kathy in Napa

Surprised Monarda didn’t flower for you at all, but we all have something that grows for everyone else, but won’t grow for us. Too bad, you have hummingbirds too, right?

Babs, I’ve also removed Joe Pye Weed once and I see I’m going to have to dig it out again. I couldn’t keep Lobelia siphilitica more than two seasons.

Wanted to speak up for Lobelia siphilitica. It's true that it can be quite a seeder. Personally have found this especially so around sprinkler systems.

At the same time, around here, it's life expectancy (including that of it's progeny) is far greater than that of fancier perennial lobelias. Find the latter are a big waste of money.

I don't find it difficult to "weed" in our garden soil; it's a bit easier to remove unwanted seedlings early than later.

Below: lobelia siphilitica (working with annuals and other perennials) in one of the gardens I installed and maintained (August 20, 2011).

I'm quite hostile against rabid seeders, but which perennials are so seems often influenced by local growing conditions.

Small area; combination of annuals and perennials.
You're right about the plant identifications.

I had switched from seaweed compost, because it smelled and not really looked into mushroom compost, though the place I bought it has input from the local horticultural society.

Just read a detailed summary, "Plant Nutrients and Fresh Mushroom Compost"(Fidanza and Meyer, Penn State) of research they carried out. OK, funding included the Mushroom Industry. They make "fresh mushroom" compost sound very good and their research looks quite thorough.

Wikipedia raised several points. I'm not concerned at present about the Nitrogen content, but will follow up on the possible presence of fungicides.

I hate being sold compost which has lots of weed seeds in it. We do not have enough space to generate compost ourselves (e.g. internal heat weed-seed-killing-ability of a typical compost heap).

At least 95% of my coneflowers (A.K.A. the purple forrest)
All misbehaving aggressively re-seeding Rudebeckias 5ft tall, people!
The Beebalm in full sun that has hogishly spread in diameter and was over 4ft tall this year.
The small patch of Goldenrod that is indicating a capability of total takeover.
THE SCARLET SAGE - massive dark green plants with barely noticeable red flowers. What was I thinking???

The removal is massive. The bed of the truck is overflowing ready for a trip to the city compost pile.

Anything that looks over-bred and gelded to form fit into a conventional type of garden which needs regular watering. Specifically, the new small mounded bedding types of Lantana will not to be seen here next year, I hate them. There are a couple other perennials I won't risk naming here because I have noticed they are commonly popular.

Any Vinca Major that dares or even thinks about crossing the property line is doomed to die. This plant is on my top 10 list of ugly plants. Ditto on the big greedy green tall variety of Lirope that wants to take over the world like a road hog and Privet. This is the trio preferred by lazy and unimaginative people everywhere as a way to "landscape without thought or effort". Privet loves to seed on my property and has been listed as an Exotic Invasive Species in some areas. I agree. All three of these can be outlawed in my opinion.

All types of Agastache which simply refuse to thrive here. I am done trying it forever.

Sumner, 5ft tall? Sounds like it would make a good privacy fence against an ugly yard next door. You must have some really good dirt.

BTW I think I have an Ivy that could possibly beat up your Vinca but I know that the tall Lirope is the devil that can sneak up from below and way, way over yonder!

You just need some good invasive volunteer hackberry forest tree roots lining that side where your rudebeckias are. That'll whittle them down to scale. My stuff stays real short, the stuff that will grow at all, thanks to Mr. Green.

Another salvia with an unbelievably long period of bloom is Salvia penstemenoides which is also called 'Big Red Texas Sage'. Its a native once thought extinct in the wild until rediscovered a few years back growing in a small area. Seed is commercially available and germinates easily. This salvia attracts more hummingbirds and hawkmoths than any other plant in my entire garden and blooms heavily on tall stems, each tall stem having endless deep reddish/purple flowers for weeks and weeks. It makes my courtyard very active and it smells good too, sort of like an antique cabinet. The leaves are very interesting and pretty too. Unlike any other salvia I have ever grown.

Here is a photo of one growing in the wild from the Ladybird Johnson Wildlife Center website.