I figure I take this approach.

Any perrenials that have erect stems after the foilage has fallen should be cut back in spring. For example Coneflower, Coreposis, Speedwell.

Any perrenials that has foilage that falls to the ground but is still attached to the crown should be cut back in fall. For example Iris, Daylily

Is this a good "general rule of thumb" to follow?

Some folks like to leave foliage that provides winter interest and/or food for the creatures (e.g. coneflower) and cut everything else down.

Other folks like to clean everything up. Various reasons involved here (e.g. too many other chores in the spring, like "clean" beds over winter, disease/insect issues).

Still other folks leave everything for spring clean-up for various reasons.

Any method you choose is fine. It makes no difference to the plant - it's dormant, so what you do with top growth over the winter is irrelevant as long as the plant is hardy in your zone.

That said, there are plants that foliage left over winter aids in the plant overwintering successfully (hardy mums come to mind in my zone). Reasoning behind this is said plants are not fully hardy in that zone or the plant is prone to heaving (e.g. heuchera). Standing foliage helps hold snow cover, and thus insulates the soil against freezing/thawing cycles that cause heaving.

Personally, I prefer to clean it all up in the fall if I have the time. I prefer the look of clean beds in the winter, and I very much enjoy the emerging foliage in the sping, having clean beds shows off the beauty of early spring.

Hi whaas! Height, habit, etc don't really have anything to do with when a plant should be cut down. There are however some plants that do better if you leave the stems on over the winter, like Agastache. The cut stems draw in moisture, which is bad in a wet climate. I do the same for my salvias, though I doubt it makes too much difference- just a habit of mine I suspect!

There are some things that are good to clean up in fall. I have read that it is a good idea to clean up the foliage of Daylilies to prevent viruses. I do the same with my Peonies.

But I leave most of the clean up for early spring (like April, when I am going batty from being in all winter!). You can always leave up the dead stems and stalks to see exactly where next years new growth comes on- great way to learn where and when to prune.
Take care!
CMK

or would you prefer some visual interest ...

frankly ... do what you can in fall.. and do the rest next spring....

or dont do it at all ...

heck.. the best rule of thumb is.. WING IT... no plant dies due to lack of cleanup ... otherwise healthy, of course..

ken

And also, I forget exactly where some things are, so having the dead foliage there keeps me from stepping on newly emerging plants in the spring. For me, that's especially true of hostas and lilies.

Deanna

Okay, Ken - that's a good one, is being mentally filed

False, there are several perrenials that are better cleaned up in fall vs. spring...mainly those whose foilage can mat down and overwinter diseases in the crown.

Ken, buddy, why do you this? You know there are several perrenials that shouldn't be cut down in fall. Water enters the cutback stems (upright stems) and promotes disease.

Nah, I'm not buying it; used to buy it, but no longer. If you're interested as to why, please refer to my long-winded post of recent regarding fall clean-up.

I just planted 2 weeks ago Creme De Brulee Coreopsis, Wild Thing Sage, Goodness Grows Speedwell, Arizona Sun Gaillardia, Apricot Delight Yarrow, and Coneflower. Does anyone know if any of these should be cut down in the fall vs the spring?

Does the fact that they are newly planted have anything to do with the time to cut down?

Danielle

In colder climates, a number of woody stemmed perennials will suffer cold damage if cut back significantly in fall or early winter - agastache, gaura, various species of salvia, some mallows, butterfly bush (really a shrub but gets discussed here often), lavender, etc. Removing lax foliage (ie., hostas, peonies) is not really necessary either unless disease was an issue during the growing season. And some perennials just don't get cut back at this time of year, period. It either affects their bloom season or they retain foliage through the winter - euphorbias, epimediums, hellebores, bergenia, etc.

Each plant species is a bit different from another and they may require different approaches. As gardeners, we tend to assign human requirements to our gardens that nature does not......she allows things to take their course over winter. No major clean-up or cutting back in the natural environment other than the normal course of die-back or decomposition of fallen leaves and stems. The only "rule of thumb" to rely on is to research each individual species and respond to what it requires to perform well in your location. diSabato-Aust's The Well-Tended Perennial Garden is an excellent resource for this type of information.

i plant.. i water to establish ... and then.. well .. they are on their own .... they may not even get cut back for 5 years ...

and you know what .... 95% thrive ... its how they do it in nature ...

the other 5% died .. i dont know why ... but it wasnt for lack of CLEAN UP .... [proabably foo foo plants bred to the edge of viability .. like that variegated jacobs ladder ... who needs them]

you know.. where they grow wild... and in their genes.. they all grew wild somewhere .... NO ONE GOES CLEANING THEM UP ...

i suppose these 'clean up' peeps.. clean their houses too ... rotflmbo ...

again ... its all about YOU.. not the plants ... what do you want to look at all winter .. what can your type A personality deal with all winter.. is the visual interest going to please you??? ... or is the mess out there going to drive you crazy all winter ... that really is the bottom line ... that and how much time you have when and if the job needs to get done ...

good luck

ken

ps: should the guy at the link.. cut it all down.. and cleaned it up.. for the sake of flat snow??? .. not!!!! ... you can get the same effect from perennials .... what i would do without snow cover .. i dont know.. maybe i would clean more????

If it's green, leave it be.
If it's brown, cut it down.

I like that one. Having said that, I've experimented this year with cutting back more than I typically would (but we also have tons of leaves falling right now, and they will provide winter protection as well as snow cover). And some things that are definitely brown (echs come to mind) I always leave because they are sturdy & have seeds for the birdies. So it's subjective.
I never touch my peonies, having had one bloom recently that finally forgave me for a transplanting after 4 years. It has a wooden chair around it that I'll leave out there for the winter for the birds to sit on.

I clipped back my coreopsis (green) on the suggestion of someone on these boards who trimmed them way back, so I'm trying that this year. I've trimmed back all of my siberian iris, even though they stay green all winter, but a local lady trimmed the ones at the public library back last fall, and I went "hmm- guess I'll try that, too," so those are down, as well as my Bearded & other Irises.
All my daylilies are trimmed back, most of what I have is "dormant" anyway, but some are semi-evergreen. If they keel (not likely, but one never knows), that'll give me an excuse to visit the DL farm in the spring- LOL!

Things that were late to seed (Swamp Milkweed), I'll leave up until spring because it's not quite brown yet. Sedum stays until spring, then I'll pull out the dead stalks from this year...stuff like that. The 'green/brown' mantra seems to work for me.

sodden tree leaves that create a dense mat.. that creates an anaerobic situation.. causing the plants beneath to die from lack of oxygen and the ensuing rot ...

i have experience with maple leaves doing such .. and any tree.. that drops every single heavy green leaf after the first frost. ... mulberry comes to mind ...

ken

PS: and double bingo for gal on this statement:

As gardeners, we tend to assign human requirements to our gardens that nature does not
===========>>>>

they dont need to be fed.. tucked in ... diapered .. etc.. they are plants.. NOT children... lol ...

PPS: from the link:

anthropomorphism

(an-thruh-puh-mawr-fiz-uhm) The attributing of human characteristics and purposes to inanimate objects, animals, plants, or other natural phenomena, or to God. To describe a rushing river as "angry" is to anthropomorphize it.

I usually cut down the Peonies, Lilies, some Phlox, Veronica, straggly annuals, and others that look like crap or get mildewy in the fall. BUT I leave the Monarda up cuz the birds eat these seeds too.

If you are a neatnik, but still want to feed the birds, you can cut the stalks down and save some. I cut down a bagful of dried Echinacea stalks, store them in the garage, and then periodically tie a bunch to one of the bird-feeder poles. The Goldfinches and Pine Siskins loved to pick at them. I remember one lady who would weave the stalks through the lattice on the side of her deck.

Here are some Goldfinches and Juncoes on the Monarda last January -

I froze my fingers to get these pics so enjoy:)

but i also understand.. that type A peeps... just might not be able to handle the issue ... lol

all the power to them.. whatever makes them happy .. is fine with me ...

ken

Danielle

the ONLY reason to remove it from hosta.. is if you are battling the evil slug.. and removal and spraying with 10% vinegar or ammonia will help kill the slugs that are trying to winter over under it

whaas ... everything you mention.. i do in spring.. if at all ... and as noted.. its entirely up to you ...

ken

As for my 2 cents, we have an awful lot of plant material here and years ago, we found that cutting down in the spring rather than the fall- considerably decreased our hauled out detritus. We really don't have the compost pile space for all the material that would come out with a fall cleanup.So we let the winter dessicate the material and we spend half or less of the time on cleanup that we would have w/ a fall cleanup. We DO cut down iris and peonies in the fall; the former because it's very difficult to cut their mushy leaves in spring, and the latter because they come up so early in spring and we don't want to a)obscure those cool red buds or b) allow any botrytis to be harbored in the stems.
best,
mindy
The Cotton-Arbo retum

I went back and read mxk3's post.

"Any method you choose is fine. It makes no difference to the plant - it's dormant, so what you do with top growth over the winter is irrelevant as long as the plant is hardy in your zone."

Is this based on experience? I'm just trying to figure out why so many sources would disagree with this advice.

Going back, gardengal48's post looks to be right on the money.

There have been years I have cleaned everything up in the fall, and years I did not clean up anything because of time constraints. Everything survived that I'm aware of whether I cut everything down or not, and the years that I did not cut things down I had no out of the ordinary insect and/or disease issues to contend with the following season. Based on that experience, I now advise it is a personal preference - do whatever the heck you want or don't want to do, the plant will survive regardless as long as it is hardy in your zone.

I'm leaving everything thats stays up, up, lol.
Anything that mats down, is going to get cut back soon.

Again, I'd caution cutting back much in fall on any perennials that develop semi-woody stems. Others that are fully herbaceous and melt with the first good, hard frost, it's your choice :-)