intact.. they can create a waterproof mat.. that traps moisture under... creating an anaerobic situation [no oxygen leading to swamp rot] that can kill the stuff underneath ...

shredded leaves allow moisture and oxygen to move freely back and forth.. and make a nice 'bedding' for that long winter sleep ... and will feed the soil come spring ...

as an example.. ever find a pile of maple leaves in spring, that you missed in fall .. and come to find.. it killed all the grass underneath by spring????? if anything can kill grass.. it must be good at it... lol ...

ken

Now, oak leaves are a different story - they are notoriously slow to break down. Those I would shred.

My maple leaves happen to be "shredded significantly," so should be fine (I use them on other things with no rotting).

mxk3 - you said "I do my best to keep the leaves from resting directly on the crowns" - I can't picture that. Do you mulch AROUND the plant?

Thanks. cnid

Eh, y'know, with all the wind blowing and such, leaves eventually do come to rest atop the plant crowns, and I don't even worry about it - like I said, never lost anything to rotting in all these years.

Hey, just think about the forests - no one cleans up around plant crowns and the plants come up just fine though all that leaf litter :0)

i bet mx is out there the day the soil thaws.. and starts pulling back her leaves.. peaking to see what made it.. destroying the carpeting/matting effect i discuss ....

i bet she carefully places it around plants.. and does not simply dump them on top of treasures ... and leaves it there until fourth of july weekend when some peeps think the garden season begins .... lol

and frankly.. mx... nothing grows in the forest under the canopy of mature maple trees [nor most other trees, save for some very specific woodland plants] ... that is why it is called a forest.. rather than a prairie ...

all the power to you .. for what works for you .. but be careful and think about lurkers doing what you suggest ... i made some BIG!!! mistakes when i first started.. and piling maple leaves was one of them ......

i am glad the OP's are shredded.. proceed as you wish ...

ken

Reading your snarky post was the end to a trying day. If your goal was to bring to me down, Ken, mission accomplished - your meanness brought me to tears.

Goodnight. And kiss my ***

I don't winter mulch anything much despite our frequent freeze thaws.
a) because it is either sink or swim here for plants (don't water either)
b) because my property is so wide open that I have few leaves to use. Brought some leaves in from another property one year and now my maples have black spot. Sigh.

I must be dense because I always thought mulching involved COVERING the plant/crown - thought that was the whole point. Maybe covering the plant is less likely to be a problem for stuff that dies right back? And if you don't put the mulch on too early in the fall, or leave it too long in the spring? I am struggling with understanding how mulching AROUND a plant/crown helps protect it. The thing with the hellebores is they are evergreen so the season's growth isn't supposed to die back like with hostas. Is that the big difference, or have I been REALLY lucky because the mulching that I do has been done "wrong"?

I will not put mulch ON them but will put it around them, as per advice from you all. Thanks again. I am so excited to finally have these - a big splurge for me, plus it signifies FINALLY getting an area beside the house fixed up - walkway, stone steps, put my own stepping stone in. I should figure out how to take a picture and show it to you.

Ken - don't laugh - this summer started in August (lasted 3 weeks!) for us.

C

i didnt mean my reply as jumping all over you ...

i was intending.. with apparently a bit too much passion .... to explain how lucky you were that your system works for you .. because you are so good at what you do.. how well you take care of your garden.. and how i presume you are out there in very early spring poking around and making sure problems dont happen ...

i also pointed out.. when i tried it [and failed] .. it did NOT work for me.. because i must not been at the level you are at ....

i hope you forgive me .... i rather do consider a good GW friend .... and would like to keep it that way ...

ken

I'm certainly at no special "level" of gardening skill, just figured out what works for me, and the only way I figured that out was by getting out there and doing different things, sometimes with success, sometimes not, and also what I was willing to do (I am pretty lazy in terms of chores, as you know I HATE watering and such, I'm certainly not going to be out there shredding leaves, though it's no secret I swipe the neighbor's big bags of shredded leaves they put out for trash).

BTW - my sister, who is a Master Gardener, and I have the same argument (well, disagreement is a nicer word) over and over re: shredding vs. non-shredding of leaves.

....and I also think norway maple is sometimes accused of alleopathy in that the leaves give off a chemical that hurts other plants... not sure on that one- but I do know the leaves mat into a thick wet annoying slop that is a pain to clean up.

Also- red maple dominates much of the forest here and there are still spring wildflowers and some other things that the deer didn't get to yet... the only thing that seems happy to grow under norway maples is english ivy.

So maybe it depends on what maple you have- and it could be both sides are correct :)

Actually, I was just asking on another forum about this very question about whether this much mulch could be a problem. I have had the same problem as Ken in a few very specific instances that I can remember when I was a new gardener. Now, we do leave some of the leaves in the beds up against the fence for the winter. But on the lawn, we mow them up and put them in a bin and use it for compost and leaf mould the next season. I also fill my raised veggie beds to the top with leaves that have gone through the mower.

This year, we got this bonanza of leaves from our neighbor behind, who has Silver Maples. Much smaller leaf than the usual maple leaf and I don't consider it necessary to chop them. We already put together a temporary chicken wire bin for this overflow of leaves and are spending some time out there today, finishing up getting them settled away from the trunks of the shrubs and trees and into the bins for the winter.

BTW, thank you Ken and mxk3 for the great way you handled your little disagreement. Great example of how graciously it can be accomplished. :-)