snow is irrelevant ... as is 34 degrees.. its a hardy plant.. not your baby ....

what kind of pot.. will freezing soil expand and break it??? if so.. you better figure out how to save the pot ...

why isnt it in the ground ...

as to the plant .....hit the link

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: look for my post about the irrelevance of what is in the pot

Ken: this is called a patio plant (stupid name) because it grows all summer in the pot it was sold in (a beige plastic one). It flourished the first summer next to a fence; I put it in the unheated garage about this time of year last winter, brought it out in the spring and it grew up the fence again this summer. The instructions on the plant tag said it should be brought in for the winter. So what's up with that?

plastic pot is fine ....

quick google lists jackmani as zone 3 to 8 ...

the plant itself is fully hardy .. IN MOTHER EARTH ...

the problem is the pot.. the drying effects of winter.. along with ground freeze.. and the potential for water accumulation in a frozen pot ... IN YOUR ZONE 5 ... and winter sun on a pot ...

the short answer to your question is that it is a marketing gimmick.. and you could have probably got the plant for a 1/4 of what your paid for the PATIO VERSION in a fancy plastic pot ...

and you could have planted it in the ground ...

unless it was not jackmanii.. and some plant not really for your zone ...

ken

PS: some clay pots will shatter in winter.. so you have to empty them for winter ... fired and sealed pots are impervious to water.. and should NOT.. low fired pots without glaze absorb water and can break

pps: get it in before ground freeze ... everything is fully dormant by then ... too soon and you might interfere with it going to dormancy in a warmer garage ... now is probably just fine

miriam, You need to know its name.In your zone, if it's a jackmanii, it is hardy and does not need to be brought in , but can live permanantly in the ground. Sometimes nurseries market 'Patio Pots' for things that are perennials and perfectly fine in the ground, but most of the plants are not perennials (such as dahlias, annuals, begonias etc.)
In your zone, your pot will be well protected in your garage and should not break .Moving your potted clem. now is fine (snow not killing it but making it more difficult to move around .) next spring, plant it in the ground!
best,
mindy

I have some plants (hardy in my zone plants) that need to be stored over the winter in pots. It is too early to store them in the garage - it isn't *that* cold yet. Mid-20s overnight is cold to us humans, but for a zone 5 hardy plant those temps won't do any damage, and the daytime temps where I am are still in the 40s/50s - too warm for beginning storage. The pots need to freeze and stay frozen (not break dormancy) at this time of the year, so I will wait until the *daytime* temps are consistently below freezing to haul into storage - that way, they will (rather, they should) remain frozen.

Ken is correct regarding clay. I love clay pottery but admit it can be work to empty/fill/empty/fill every year. In my large pieces, I utilize plastic pots (plant the plant material in the appropriate-sized pot, slip that into the pottery) - at the end of the season, I just slip out the plastic pot/plant material to over-winter and have DH haul the pottery into the crawl space.

There is a whole series of clematis known as the patio collection but Jackmanii is not one of the clematis in that collection.

The thing I would be most concerned about is the fact that the plant has been in the same sized container for two growing seasons and it is probably pot bound. If what you have is a Jackmanii then this plant should definitely be put into the ground next season at the latest. If it were mine and the ground was workable, I would plant it now, water it in well, and mulch it well. If you are planning on bringing it in again for the winter, you might want to pull the plant out of its pot and see if it is pot bound and if so repot it into a larger sized pot. Water it in well and the plant will probably put on more root growth in a cool environment over the winter.

Well, as someone who has hundreds of perennials in pots, I don't think the question here is whether Miriam_Gardener should put it in the ground or not. She's asking WHEN she should bring it in.

I find that there's no set time for this. By the same token, I do kind of struggle with this issue every year, but have found that for the most part I have never lost plants because I left them out too long. I think the bigger danger is bringing them in too early, before they are fully dormant.

As MXK says, I think it might be too early, although you can make that call better than I, since I am a zone warmer. I wait until the days are consistently cold and the pots stay consistently frozen to bring them in. Here in zone 6 they have not frozen once yet (it was 65 degrees today, for goodness sake, lol! - not that I'm complaining!)

I'm curious as to whether this particular series of clematis are on the short side? I just wonder because if they are meant to be left on the patio, but have to be brought in, then you might have some difficulty with the vines. I have a clematis in a big pot with a small (4-ft?) trellis, and it's about time for me to transplant the clematis in the ground.

Did your pot come with a little trellis?

Also, as someone mentioned above, if you do want to continue keeping it in a pot, you might want to repot it in the spring into something bigger.

Okay, now I'm doing the same as everyone else, lol - digressing!

But back to your original question, I would wait until the pot is frozen and stays that way, and the temps are consistently cold, before bringing it in for the winter.

:)
Dee

HELP HELP bring it in, don't do it. ?? I don't know . I bought this wretched clematis in a plastic pot two years ago and did what it said on the plant tag. I brought it in an hour ago but now maybe I should put it back outside what do you think. diggerdee? yeah, it's on the short side. the plant tag calls it Picary. What's that? Miriam

I think it's probably rootbound. I'll put it back outside and wait until it freezes before bringing it back inside.. I should repot it but can I wait till next spring?
Dee, what you think? Miriam

Picardy is one of the Boulevard collection by Roy Evison and Poulsen. The answer to the question as to when to bring it back inside would be when the plant has gone dormant and the winter temps remain consistently cold. That way the plant will be dormant and should stay dormant all winter provided it is stored in an area where the temps stay just above freezing.

Sure you can wait until next spring to repot it if you want it to remain in a pot for at least next year. There would be no issue with repotting it now however and then it would be ready to start up again next spring and be settled in its new home.

Forgot to provide the link, but below is a link concerning the Boulevard collection of clematis. These clematis were bred specifically to be able to be shorter and more compact in stature and to be grown on a patio and perhaps even continue growing inside over the winter provided you have enough light for them. However unless you have a conservatory, greenhouse, or a window with sufficient light, I would not attempt to grow them inside since clematis are like any other plant--without sufficient light they tend to get spindly and more susceptible to aphid infestations amongst other types of critter infestations.

Here is a link that might be useful: Article on Boulevard Collection

when i moved.. i had 1500 pots sitting at the old house.. closed 12/23 .. moved 1/12 ....

SOME OF THE POTS WERE FROZEN TO THE GROUND ..... nearly broke my toe trying to kick them loose.. only did that once.. lol ..

the pot has to go in.. before it freezes to the ground ...

got that part???

i smoke in the garage..not the house .... let me tell you that my attached non-heated garage.. in my z5 .. is probably z8 with the door closed ... heat off the house.. effects of sun .. etc ...

you can NOT bring in the plant.. until you are sure that it stays cold enough in the garage so that the plants does not start to come out of dormancy .... if it were to hit 60 for 3 days in a row.. and only go down to 45 at night.... strange things might happen to your potted plant ...

MOST likely you could do it right now in z5 ... but a few more weeks might not hurt ....

a good trick when you move it into the garage.. is to place a few ice cubes or a snowball on the soil .... they will melt if temps increase providing just a bit of moisture to the pot ... in z5.. winter is the driest season of the year.. since all moisture is tied up in snow and ice ... and a pot can dry too much.. causing freeze dried roots ... so just a little moisture helps... without making the pot an ice cube .... because roots need air also ...

the more you learn.. the less you know.. lol ...

good luck

ken

Ah, Miriam, you poor thing, lol! I know it's hard, but we just can't say to you, "Bring this clematis inside on December 5th." Not only does the timing vary according to different areas, but it even differs in the same area from year to year. One year, I did not bring my pots inside until mid-January, because it was just so mild out. Looks like it may be late again this year, as we are still in the 50-degree range here.

The best we can tell you is, as Nickvilledudes said, to bring it in when it is completely dormant and the temps are consistently cold. That is something only you can monitor, and it may be a judgement call. I believe it is better to err on the side of leaving it out too long, rather than bringing it in too early. (I too had a few of those frozen-to-the-ground pots, and just left them out all winter. Most of them did fine, but I prefer to get them inside just the same.) Just watch the pot for dormancy, monitor your temps and decide as best you can.

As far as repotting, you can do it now or in spring.

Interesting about your garage, Ken. Mine is just the opposite. It is also attached, non-heated, but it is much colder than outside, at least at the moment. I went in there last weekend (when the weather was beautiful!) to start cleaning it out, and I had to open all the doors to get the darn place warmed up! No insulation, and it's behind the house, to the north of the house, although it does get lots of sun. Anyway, it's a good place to keep my perennials over the winter. Who needs to keep the cars in there? Not me, lol.

:)
Dee

Nck: thanks so much for the Boulevard link. There's my little Picardy (not photo, but in text). You and others helping me with this are GREAT. Ken: I'll put a couple of ice cubes in the pot as you suggest. Again, thanks everyone for advice.

You want to bring it in before the pot freezes solid! Oddly, roots are the portions of most plants that are most vulnerable to cold damage -- if they are planted in the ground and have the insulating properties of the soil around them, they are able to withstand the cold. If they are in containers and the containers exposed to the ambient air temperatures, they can freeze at much higher temps than inground plantings will do. The trigger point for most plants to experience root damage is right around 25F.

Bring them in!!

But the plants will more than likely freeze solid in an unheated garage or shed - mine always do. I also have potted plant barricaded against the house over the winter, and while it is protected from winds by bales of straw, I'm going to assume it still freezes solid in the dead of winter out there.

I'm with Ken on this one based on my own experience - frozen pots are fine just keep them dormant/frozen, don't let them turn into an ice block, and they'll be fine.

All this relating to zone-appropriate plants, of course :0)

Given that I've kept some plants in pots without any sort of protection provided by me, and they've done just fine, I also have to *seriously* question the idea that hardy plants have to be protected from zone 8 cold. In a fair amount of the midwest, snow cover is very unreliable, so even in the ground the roots are going to get more than a little frozen.

Back to the repotting digression. If you aren't good about remembering to water the pots, the plants are better off repotted now. While dormant plants don't use a lot of water, once they break dormancy in the spring, they do, and they can break dormancy surprisingly early in a garage.

Re: Breaking dormancy in a garage: I handle the watering issue by piling snow on top of the pots come about January or so. When temps warm and spring thaw begins, the snow slowly melts into the thawing soil in the pots, watering them gently. Easy, and works beautifully, no worries about dried-out or over-watered pots.

One can "seriously doubt" all they want but the fact remains the potential exists, even in zone 8. Per Clemson University: "Root systems that are unprotected above the ground are very susceptible to cold damage. This is especially true for plants in containers, planters or balled and burlapped plants. On some otherwise hardy species, lethal root temperatures can begin at 28 °F." 28F is not all that low a temperature and occurs periodically here in zone 8.....a nearby temperature reading tracked 26F here last night.

Cold damage to containerized plants is a very well-studied phenomenon. It is of great concern to the nursery industry as well as being an ongoing topic of study and discussion with those that practice bonsai as well. And it should be considered and properly understood by anyone who grows in containers. It is one of the reasons nurseries - or anyone else that gardens extensively using containerized plants - heel in containers for winter protection or otherwise bring them into a protected location where the containers are not likely to freeze solid.

FWIW, not all plants will experience cold damage at the same temperature levels - some are just more resilient and less prone to damage than others and the size of the container and surrounding soil mass also plays a role - but it is far better to be safe than sorry.

Here is a link that might be useful: freeze damage to root systems

I do the same as mxk - throw some snow on the pots (if available, lol) in late January to February, depending upon when I brought them inside in the first place.

If no snow is around, then I go in with a watering can around the same time and give a light drink.

That being said, there have been years where I've forgotten to water at all, and most things have been fine.

:)
Dee

This is a neat idea about putting snow in the pots. Thanks!

garden gal: I'm overwhelmed. The GW forum is the best place a novice could go for an education about gardening. This novice thanks you. And Ken and Digger and MXK and linnea and NCK et al. Miriam