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| My feature is going to be on the small size, 240 gallons. That is tiny compared to the ponds I see mentioned here, but large for a water fountain. In digging this out, I would prioritize my desires in order:
1. Low Maintenance -- more than once/week is a problem, needs to be able to handle if I miss a week 2. Clear water -- I plan to submerge lights, and I would like it to look good 3. Affordable -- I don't mind paying a premium for #1 and #2, but some of the solutions you guys are using for ponds is way beyond what I can do for a little project The standard for this size project is basically a filtering box with a submerged pump, and then routing the water (either a built in fountain feature, or piping it to an external return. I was hoping to use either a skimmer or a bottom drain, this both of those are supposed to offer clearer water and easier cleaning, but I can't find anything there for smaller ponds. I love the idea of a bottom drain flowing into a pump and back, filtering all the water and not letting stuff sink to the bottom needing cleaning, but where can I find solutions for my size fountain? An external (or at least skimmer) for filter cleaning seems like a no brainer. Pull out filter, hose off, replace, seems much less painful than pulling out a dirty submerged pump to clean off. I'm in south florida, so this will run 365 days a year, no winterizing. Thanks in advanced! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by turnerwaterscaping (My Page) on Mon, Jan 4, 10 at 12:11
| There are two ways you can do your feature one is called a pondless meaning no standing water. This by far the easiest to maintain u simple add water and enjoy. The pump is located under the feature in what we pump chamber. since the top of the chamber is covered with stone there is virtually no maintenance required. The other way there is a small pool that circulates the water via waterfall or a hose running over a rock. There are couple a ways first u mention bottom drains typically they are use for large appilcations 3' or deeper koi ponds and would be a huge over kill for your feature. A skimmer would be a good start though. If you plan on adding fish a biological filtration would be required to help w the maintenace but for over all clear water a U.V. light will be needed to be install. For your size pond a 5 watt would do for clear water but u can go higher if like. good luck! greg turnerwaterscapingllc. |
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| Greg, thanks for your points. I wanted to do "jets" of water coming in... I'll settle for a few spitters if I can't find nozzles to give me jets, but I'm doing some GPH -> water velocity calculations to see what it would take to get 6 - 8 1 foot "jets" @ 45 degree angles. I either need to find an online reference or remember high school physics... :) The bottom drain is considered "overkill," but given that I am excavating, running the PVC line to bring the water out isn't a big deal. The limiting factor, as I see it, is that for my size I'm really limited to a submersible pump given that I need water cooling. If I wanted a bottom drain, the way I see it, I'd run two drains (safety reasons) out of the pond, then I'd need to hook the pump in with two "connectors" on the size. An in bound connector that takes the bottom drain through the filter and into the pump, and an outbound that goes to the fountain feature. The skimmer seems like a more expensive solution to a bottom drain, an inferior option, and one that requires me to integrate it into my design. What am I missing that makes the skimmer a viable option? I just replaced the aged outlet over there with a GFCI one... looks like I need to replace it with a double gang box and a second outlet... :) Low Voltage Light + Pump = 2, a UV light makes 3... :) |
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- Posted by turnerwaterscaping (My Page) on Tue, Jan 5, 10 at 8:41
| Well lets see if i can help you out here then. First the reason i say the bottom drain is an over kill is due to the fact that u will need to run at least 3-4 inch diameter pipe to do this process. The reason is the fact that any smaller the pipe can and will get clogged either by leaves or other foreign debris a larger pipes down grades the likely hood of this happening. Second if you use a bottom drain your still gona have to set up some sort of filtering media up before it goes through your "jets" or they will become clogged. A skimmer like u say is pretty self explainitory it skims the surface of the water and provides a place for filtering, for you size pond they will run around $250 and this size will allow to use a pump up to 2500gph in it. Your pump desicion now is a little more diffucult to do and its up to you on which pump you want to do. Generally there are three catagorys of pumps direct drive, magnate drive and hybrid pumps for ponds,there are others but these r generally the types use. Direct drive pump has power as related to head pressure. They are more expensive to run monthly and the need head presure for them to maintain proper functionality. A mag -drive pump is a more energy efficent pump. Another nice part is that they do have replaceable parts. A direct drive is basically junk once it goes bad. A hybrid pump is a combination of both direct and mag drives. I would suggest a mag drive pump for your set up a good pump is the pondmaster brands. They have both the hybrid and magdrive lines up to 6500 gallons. Another nice function is that they dont have to be submersed! They can be used as a inline pump. Ive installed hundreds of ponds and custom water features for over 15 years and i can say these pumps are one the of the best ones on the market. These pumps range in price $120-$500. Do not go cheap on your pump get a good one now! You wouldnt want a ford engine n a porsha would you? :) Your lighting needs for your pond go with l.e.d lighting, halgens are old school now because you are always changing bulbs. Down in your area Oase is a popular brand i would not recomend these poducts for two reasons. One they have pulled there product line n the USA so replacment parts are gona be hard to find and they are vary vary pricy great products but just to expensive. Hope this helps good luck! |
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| Greg, you have been TREMENDOUSLY helpful. I read Home Deport's Water Gardens 1-2-3 which helped a bit, but the size feature that I am going for enters a weird zone... 330 gallons is bigger than a small pre-formed one, but isn't as big as the big things. Here is my question, I assume that my pump should be over 350 GPH, but not more than 1000 GPH? I assume that you can't pump through the entire water supply more than a few times an hour or you'll start to create suction for anything in there. Assuming I want my arches of water to be 1.6 ft (0.5m), I need a velocity of 3 m/s. Given a 1/4" stream, that's 90 GPH/stream, given a 1/8" stream, that's 22.5 GPH. 1/4" valves seems reality, and if I want 8 of them, that's 720 GPH, so a 700 or 750 GPH pump seems like the right call (a little smaller means a little tighter of water, seems better than overshooting which will drain the water). I found a Pondmaster 700 GPH pump with a filter from Pondmaster for $130. Will that work, or am I going to regret not adding a skimmer? The wood frame to give the pond a rigid shape looks to be $100, the pump $100, and the liner/underlayment another $50 or so?!? Adding a skimmer increases the construction work and doubles the budget... doesn't mean that I shouldn't do it, just want to know if I should. My gut says I'll regret NOT having the skimmer. If I add the skimmer, I assume I replace my single GFCI outlet with a bigger box with two outlets before adding light. I assume that I just drop the UV light in the skimmer? I should be able to run 1/2" tubing into my edge support, then angle some 1/4" barbs @ 45 degrees with a compression T-connection to get my streams. When I replace the driveway, I'll bring a pipe of water connected to a Garden spitter so I can fill the pond if it drops (planning to run a pipe for the irrigation system anyways). The Atlantic Water Gardens PS4000 Skimmer with a 6" door seems to run $150 and looks like it won't dominate my water garden, is that sufficient to capture leaves? Do I need something fancier? Should I go with a skimmer AND the PondMaster Filter (with a T-connect like my pool has for a skimmer + bottom drain) to get crap off the top AND bottom? Thank you so much! Regarding lighting, my plan was to run a low voltage system in the area, including some pond lights, all LED Not only do I not need to replace bulbs, but the LED is energy efficient, and with lower wattage should allow a smaller transformer, making up for any cost premium on the lights. Looks like 2010 is the year of LED lights, given the changeover in the big box stores for Christmas lights and now garden lights. Thank you for all your help. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Sears Entry for 700 GPH Pondmaster with Filter
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- Posted by turnerwaterscaping 5 (My Page) on Tue, Jan 5, 10 at 13:29
| Glad i could help your pump may be a little small though. Keep in mind that every bend or 90 degree turn will affect your flow on your pump. I would go a little larger and then put a control valve on so can adjust to your liking. Also the biggest problem people run into on pumps is getting the right size hose it should be about 1" on your mainline not 1/2". A 750 pump with a 1/2 line is only pumping around 350-400gph so make sure you get get right size hosing. You can down size when you tee off the main line. The filter that comes with that pump is not a very good one first of all its very bulky and awkward and a pain to clean and take apart. The filter mediea is flimsy and cheap as well so i would not recommend that filter. I would recommend a skimmer especially if you have trees bushes etc. Leaves are the biggest factor to junk up a pond. If no plants are going to be in this pond and its just a water feature then you will not need a U.V. you simple add a pond block which is a aglaecide and it will keep the water clear. Ive used Led lighting for the past couple of years and they are great there are a lot options too them as well. Greg |
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| Greg, thank you so much! At first, no plants, no UV, just algaecide. Given that it's a water feature, the 6" skimmer should be sufficient. I may go up to the 9" skimmer, because while the 6" should be fine as a water feature, if I later add plants and/or fish, I'll have more margin for error. 1" hose, not 1/2", thanks. Going up to 900 GPH should work, I'm just slightly concerned that I'll jump the water out of the pond and have problems. Skimmer and all cleaning in the skimmer, seems easy enough. How often do you think I'll have to clean the skimmer? Again, thank you so much for all your help! |
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- Posted by turnerwaterscaping 5 (My Page) on Tue, Jan 5, 10 at 14:22
| If your concerned bout the possiblity of the water being to much simply add a ball valve in the line and then you can control the flow of water as needed. As for your skimmer no plants or fish then you will vary rarely need to get in it to clean unless you have alot leaves best way to tell is if your water pressure is low on your sprayers. If you want to check weekly then thats fine but I will doubt there will be much of anything in it except for the net may have leaves. When you add plants and fish then you will need to on a more regular basis. Good Luck |
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| Greg, thanks! I really want a water feature, but the idea of yet another weekly task was scaring me. :) Looking to locate 1"x1"x1/2" Reducing T Barbs 3/4"x3/4"x1/2" is common...then a 1/2" x 1/4" reducing barb... That should give me the streams I need. I can drill into the supports at a 45 degree angle. This feel very doable now! I'm going to probably stick to the 6" Skimmer |
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| Thanks again, I think I have my order list pretty much under control... Final question: is my wooden "box" of 2x8s a crazy idea? I realize that in time the wood will warm and break down, even with pressure treated, but I'm hoping that the soil will hold it in place as the wood decomposes. I'm leaning towards "no" on the bottom drain, because it seems like one extra thing to deal with... my only hesitation is that I could put it in now without much trouble, and if I later want to add some fish, I ditch the algeacide and focus on a healthy ecosystem... Looks like: $100 for pump, $100 for wood, $250 for skimmer, $100 for other plumbing supplies, and $50 for lights (already adding a low voltage transformer for other lights), $600 for a nice sized and over the top water feature. Am I nuts? I'll update my Google Sketchup Document and load the image to a server if you're interested. |
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- Posted by turnerwaterscaping 5 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 11, 10 at 13:43
| Hello Your box idea should be fine for what you are doing just making sure you are using pressure treated wood. It will last 15+ years. Again its your choice on the bottom drain option. Even if you do add fish you will have to change your filtration around. I would even say to add some mosquito fish to keep the mosquitos at bay but since your feature is a splashy one it should fine. Mosquitos preferr still water to reproduce. Your prices sound about right so your not nuts! To have a professional install a water feature it would be more since most of the cost is in the labor! Your best friend is the internet to search for your best deals and you being the labor keeps your cost down. So have fun and enjoy! Greg |
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| Thanks again! I'm going to go with no on the bottom drain. If I decide that I want one later, I can drain, lift the box out, and retrofit the bottom drain on and put it back in... That should give me plenty of flexibility. Thanks again! |
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