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Regulating rate flow on pump

Posted by jim_widz 7/VA (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 26, 08 at 8:36

I have a pond system which consists of two separate ponds: one 5' x 4' (1.5'd), and the other about 10' x 7' (2'd). They are connected by a "stream" about 5' long (2"d). Also, there is a water fall, about 2' about water level, and a length of about 25' from the skimmer to the waterfall. Both the skimmer and waterfall have simple filters attached which help keep the water clean. I have calculated the entire capacity at about 750 gallons.

When the pond was installed, they put in a Tsurumi 50PN-2.4S (4PN) pump, which has a rate flow of 4740GPH. They put this in with the explanation that this flow was needed to keep water moving rapidly over the stream, and to give the waterfall a more "real" affect.

I am finding that this flow is too large for this pond. It is very difficult to keep the water level high enough in the larger of the two ponds. The results is the pump running low on water, forcing it to shut off many times. In addition, we would not mind if the waterfall was a bit quieter, since it is quite loud with the amount of water. I would really like to have a lower flow rate. This pump seems to large for this size pond, and I feel if I can lower its intake,
many of my problems would be resolved.

I do not want to spend the money on getting a smaller pump, which has a smaller rate flow. Is there anything I can do to my existing system/pump to decrease the flow rate? Is there anything such as a valve which can in installed somewhere which would regulate the flow rate and not cause any harm to the existing pump and system?

THANKS


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 26, 08 at 10:56

Jim, you could add a "T" fitting to the output side of your pump and then install a control valve onto each side of the "T" fitting, to split the flow from the pump to where you want it. This would mean altering the existing pond plumbing to some degree.
Or
You could just install the control valve onto the output side of your pump to slow down the flow through the exisiting plumbing system, without having to alter it.

Never install a control valve on the input side of a pump, as it restricts the water flow into the pump and could cause the pump to overheat and possibly burn out.
Hope this helps,
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

The control valve definitely helps, so do the t fittings.....Horton is right.

Horton........I have a question, since you seem to have some knowledge on pumps....more so than myself. In your opinion, is a check valve really necessary? If so, where should it be installed? One came with my pump, and the people at the pond place said to install between the pump and the filter, but the picture on the instructions seem to indicate that you install it on the pump intake, where there is a vertical climb. Then, my husband thinks it should go after the filter, so that the water does not flow back to the filter.......but my filter already has that in it. Just a bit confusing to me...maybe you can shed some light.

Amanda


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 26, 08 at 16:02

Amanda, You don't say if it is an external pump or a submersible pump?
With an external pump the check valve is normally installed on the input line, to stop the pump from loosing it's prime should the power be interupted.

On an submersible it can be installed on the output side of the pump, to stop water being siphoned back into the pond from the filter container etc, should the pump lose power.

Whenever there is a check valve installed, it is wise to dismantle it, at least once a season and clean it out, as the silt and gunk building up inside the valve, can cause it to jamb open or closed.
Hope this helps,
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

I have the same pump. It is a submersible pump. Use a ball valve. The check valve is installed on the output side.

The Tsurumi pump is a very good one.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

Thanks Horton. I have an external pump. I think I will put the check valve on the intake as you mentioned.....it makes sense. Never thought of the power interuption...makes total sense.

Amanda


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

I am going out on a limb here but unless Tsurumi since bought out by Aquascapes has an external pump line, this pump is a submersible. Do not but the check valve on the input.


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Submersible info

I checked on the Aquascapes website and it is a submersible.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tsurumi pumps


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 28, 08 at 8:15

Yep lsst, I Googled the pump model number that Sue gave in her post the other day and it was a submersible pump that came up.
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

I do not have the Tsurumi....that was the original poster....hehe.....I just kind of jumped into the conversation. Sorry for the confusion. I have a Pondmaster External.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 28, 08 at 11:44

AhHa Amanda, you certainly did sneak that in. LOL
That'll teach us to read the posts properly.
I guess we assumed,albeit wrongly,that the response was from the original poster.
Even after all the years I have been posting here, I still figure people will take the time to acknowledge the replies they recieve to their posts.
I guess I'm still a little bit nieve!:-)
Thank you for your response.
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

I need to read the posts better, too! I just read the message text and did not look at the name.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

THANKS for the responses. Sorry, busy week and I just now getting around to looking at the replies to my post (I do try to respond when people are trying to help out). It sure would save me money if I could put in a valve. Anyway, to reply, the Tsurumi is a submersible pump. I plan today and disconnecting it and looking at my configuration to see what I can attach on the output flow. It does not look like there is a lot of PVC to work with. The output has a quick elbow, and then they connected it to a flexible black tubing which leads all the way to the waterfall. Does anyone know if these valves can be installed into the black tubing and not PVC? (Sorry I do not have the name for the tubing.)


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 2, 08 at 8:05

Jim, Thank you for your response.
All you have to do is buy a hose adapter for each side of the valve. A hose adapter has a thread at one end to go into the valve and a barb fitting at the other end to go into the hose/tubing. Then you tighten a hose clamp around the tubing/hose onto the barbed end, both sides to secure it and stop it from leaking.
It would be best to take a piece of your hose/tubing with you to the store and have them show you what you need.
It maybe a case where you would need a couple of extra fittings to get the sizes and fittings right. Any good hardware store should supply you with the necessary fittings and valve.
Good luck with the project,
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

If your tubing is smooth, another way is to buy a ball valve with slip ends instead of threaded. All you do is measure and cut out a section of the pipe. Then glue the ball valve to the flex pipe. I like to use Oatey Rain and shine glue. You do not need primer if you are attaching it to the Black tubing.

If you think you may want to remove the ball valve at a later date in case it leaks, etc., you could use unions on each end that connect the ball valve but let you unscrew it at a later date. The Big box stores carry them in the plumbing dept. A plumbing supply will carry a ball valve with the unions already attached.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

Thanks. Sounds like the ball valve is the way to go. I did not get to working on it this past weekend, but will be shopping around for the parts and will post (hopefully) my successful endeavors when complete.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

This project took longer to finish then I had hoped (lack of time and the weather), but finally I was able to get everything in place this past weekend. So far so good. I ended up getting a 2" ball valve, and installing in on the output flow of the pump, very close to the pump itself (it ouwld have been difficult to put it further down line). I didn't realize the pressure that would build up on this valve, so I needed to use the Oatey Rain and shine glue to secure. I also took the opportunity of putting in a better check valve (this did go in further down line).

So far so good. I am able to control the flow just fine.

One last question: Will the decreased flow by using the valve put an extra strain on the pump itself, thus causing problems in the future? I was never able to find any information from Tsurumi about using the valve.

THANKS for ALL for the advice. Saved me a lot of money.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

No, You can resrtict flow on the out put side with no problems. You do not want to restrict flow on the in put side.
I have ball valves and check valves on the out put side and have had no problems.
Sounds like you did a great job.


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 6:57

Jim, some time ago one of the members here, did some experiments with closing off the ball valve in increments and had a amp-meter clipped onto the pumps electrical supply wiring.
What he reported to this forum, was that, with the ball valve partially closed, the amperage drawn by the pump motor went down, showing that the pump ran more efficiently, than when the valve was fully open.
"Horton"


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

THANKS AGAIN for the responses "lsst" and "horton". I'm naturally inclined to worry about most things. It's nice to get back such positive responses. I'll see if I can dig up the thread on the experiments. Sounds interesting. -- Jim


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RE: Regulating rate flow on pump

Horton,
Pls accept my apology that I'm asking something which not related to the garden.
Actually its about my aquarium pump. I was trying to find how to control its flow and I came to this site, which is no doubt very informative.
My question is that I understand that if we have to install a valve to control the flow, it should be installed to at out put side not at the input side. Even if we install the valve the output side, is it safe for the pump life. Because the pump have to push the water but the valve is blocking its pressure.
Appriciate if can reply at your earliest as I'm not running my pump at the moment.
Thanks,


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