It is possible to have a bottom drain without cutting a hole in the bottom. I've never had a problem with a boot, but if you wanted another option. You cut the hole thru the side below the water line. Run the pipe how you like on the inside, I like running down a corner. Not as clean as having the pipe out of the way, but should the boot ever leak you'd only lose water down to the hole in the side rather than draining the whole pond.

That is odd about the city not requiring a permit for a pond. I've lived in several cities and all treated a pond and pool the same. More than 18" to 24" deep and it needed a permit. I'm not saying this will happen...but...if someone at the building department made a mistake it is possible the electrical inspector may come out and say you need a permit for the pond. Been there. Generally not a big deal, but depending how far along the project is it can cause stress. Might not be a bad idea to get the electrical done and final passed before doing too much on the pond. Or double check if you do want the permit.

Hey there. It sounds like you have a plan and lots of support. I wish my hubby had an interest in the pond. I hope you won't be frustrated by the Rubbermaid bins. There are stock tanks of thick UV-resistant material that are similar in size that will last forever.

You say you are using the old liner for underlayment. If it is EPDM, does it have enough holes to keep it from retaining water? That could be a mess if it does. I would cut it in 12 to 18 inch strips and butt the strips together or use sand between overlaps. Let us know how it works out.

What kind of base are you using for the fountain?

Waterbug guy, the lack of a clear permit policy is a fairly common problem. It varies from extensive to none. It can be very frustrating. Larger cities seem to have a policy in place as do newer communities but the most common requirement is for a fence. Your thought about the electrician is a good one.

Waterbug - I like your bottom drain suggestion! It solves my problem of not wanting to pipe UNDER the sewer line. I can pipe ABOVE the sewer line. Or city is pretty old and small. And in many ways still functions much like the original farming community. We still have cattle grazing on the main drag through town. Though the city/county/state have been fencing water retention ponds recently so times they may be changing.

Sandy - I've got one of those UV resist stock tanks in my veggie garden. Like it alot. Hunting high and low I couldn't find one to fit the space I had available. I just wasn't willing to take out more live oak roots. (Both alive and live oak). I only had space for a 12 x 18. I figure it is a major improvement over the pumps in a black plastic box sunk in the deep end of the pond. What a pita.

I'm using nested 12x18 totes. The bottom has the pump and plumbing, the top will hold filtration pads. Output from the pump goes (1) spitter (2) fountain and (3) 35'ish gallon bog pond bio filter. When I've got it all put back together, this time around the fountain basin will be overflowing into the pond. So I am thinking I can use the fountain basin also as a bio-filter. Maybe bio-balls.

Keep in mind that our native soil is sand. Sand and more sand. I am moving the fountain a few feet. So I 'cut' away compacted sand trying to keep the sand base as undisturbed as possible. This time around I am using 2 8x16 cinder block. The two make a base that is equally wide as the fountain base. Settling the base was one of my first tasks. I've had 8 gallons of sand sitting on top the base while I work on the other parts.

OK, lets talk water retention. My old liner is one of those PVC liners. Are you talking about water retention between the two liners? Or under the old liner? I've made the pond bigger and deeper this go around, so the old liner doesn't cover the entire cavity. I was mostly interested in covering roots and exposed retaining walls. Should I poke a bunch of holes? Heck, it is already collecting sand, so striping the very bottom in the root free zones shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for the suggestions guys and gals.

~dianne

gardengimp, it's possible your county doesn't regulate swimming pools...but I'd be surprised. I'm not trying to be a cop here, but if you want to make sure you're following the laws I'd asked about "swimming pool" permits. They often don't realize what a pond is, and so say no permit is needed.

I'm not a fan of using a liner as underlayment just because it's so difficult to keep rocks and grit from between the 2 liners. I'd rather have the rock under the liner and be able to be pushed down into the soil. Between liners it's 50-50 which liner the rock gets pushed into (through). Putting down the old liner and then something soft like carpet, carpet padding, even newspapers would be better imo. Or sell the old liner.