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| Can Arm and Hammer Suoer washing soda (sodium carbonate [~85%, water ~ 15%] for laundry and cleaning) be used in a pool/pond to bring up ph, or just only baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)? If not, why not?
Thanks.
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| Hi Ella, I've never heard of the washing soda. Something new on the market? Is there anything in it other than baking soda and water? I'd stick to the baking soda so I know what I've got and it's easier to judge how much you need by getting it in the box already weighed rather than guessing how much water is figured into the other stuff and how much of that it will take. |
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- Posted by albert_135 Sunset 2 or 3 (My Page) on Mon, Mar 7, 11 at 14:25
| Washing soda and Baking soda are noticeably different with the former being quite basic and the latter relatively harmless. I would not consider adding either to my fish tank without a thorough understanding of what I was doing. |
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- Posted by goodkarma_ 5b (My Page) on Mon, Mar 7, 11 at 22:43
| Why would you want to bring the PH up? That could be helpful in determining your needs. Altering the PH in your pond can be a dangerous thing to pond critters so it may be one reason regarding the "Why not" question. Washing soda is sodium carbonate and has a PH of around 10. Sodium bicarbonate has a PH or around 8. You can make sodium carbonate (washing soda) from sodium bicarb by heating it. It releases carbon dioxide and steam in the process. |
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- Posted by gemini_jim 7a MD (My Page) on Tue, Mar 8, 11 at 10:08
| Nothing new. As others pointed out, washing soda, sodium carbonate (Na2CO3), is very different from baking soda, sodium bicorbonate (NaHCO3), and the difference has to do with the buffering properties of the different ions. In solution, carbonate (CO3--) will be in equilibrium with bicarbonate (HCO3-) and carbonic acid (H2CO3), which itself is in equilibrium with CO2 and H20, the proportions depending on and determining pH. Adding bicarbonate tends to stabilize pH to a slightly basic range. Adding carbonate ions in the form of sodium carbonate may raise pH too high for the average pond. The stuff is also much less safe to work with and have lying around than the bicarb. As to why you would want to bring up the pH with baking soda, it can be beneficial for a number of reasons. Organic processes tend to acidify the water, so adding an alkaline buffer is often a good idea. Ammonia is an interesting situation. It is more toxic at higher pH, but will gas out much more readily. Overall, lower pH promotes the accumulation of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, which is something we generally want to avoid in a pond with fish. This will of course depend on the situation. Some tropical fish are very sodium-sensitive, but they also tend to like a lower pH, so baking soda would be undesirable. Goldfish and koi, on the other hand, prefer a slightly basic pH and are quite sodium-tolerant. In fact they can thrive in slightly to moderately brackish water. You always have to be careful and know what you're doing. There is a lot of good info in this forum. My prefered method is to add lime, dolomitic lime, and calcium carbonate materials like shells or coral to the pond for long-term buffering, and add a little baking soda (~ 1 tsp/ 5 gallons) to new water when I'm doing changes. This way I'm in no danger of adding too much sodium, since I also have pond plants and use the old water in the vegetable garden. |
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| My Computer crashed just after posting my question, and it appears to be working again.Thanks for the responses, I'll be studying them. I still have a pool, but plan to turn it into a pond. I wanted to wash my dog's bedding and other items using just washing soda, then filtering the water a bit and putting it into the pool. (That's several gallons of water.) Washing soda is not new, it's been around for years, but can be hard to find. Here only a couple of grocers carry it. I knew the chemicals--carbonate and bicarbonate, but not the differences. Today I happened to find a jar of pool PH additive--it is 100% carbonate. So, for pools, the washing soda would work. The situation with the ponds is somewhat different, I see. I don't plan to add fish this year, maybe not even next year, after I get this pond thing figutred out a bit. Thanks for the information. Adding the wash water to a pond may not be a good idea, maybe have to wait only until it sits a while, maybe with some plants in it. All input welcome here, this is all new to me. |
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- Posted by gemini_jim 7a MD (My Page) on Mon, Mar 14, 11 at 9:59
| I see. With time and dilution and no delicate organisms to worry about, there's nothing intrinsically toxic about the washing soda. It would probably be better to put it right in the pool than try to grow plants in it. They likely won't tolerate the pH or the sodium levels. You'll certainly want a way to measure pH before putting living things in the pond, so this could be a good opportunity. Add a little of the wash water, see what it does to pH, add a little more, etc. You can also experiment with neutralizing it with something acidic. Gypsum (calcium sulfate) comes to mind. But without knowing how much washing soda you start with and the volume of your pond, it's hard to say whether you'll be adding too much sodium. pH can be balanced and buffered, carbonate leaves the system through photosynthesis, CO2 outgassing and lime precipitation (along with calcium), but sodium can only be removed by changing water. |
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