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Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Posted by pondmaster101 (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 27, 09 at 17:23

Coma estas los amigos,

Yo casi soy hecho mi charca!
(I am almost done my pond!)

I am very excited to have gotten my liner, it is now in the ground for the stream, and the preform is doing very nicely with the plantings in place. Now, my question is... the liner was divided in two parts. I have overlapped them, and it actually makes it easier to turn the bank. Someone, upon hearing my dilemma, picked up 1 gallon of Carlisle Sure-Seal EP-95 Splicing Cement. It scares me. It has all these terrible warnings and flammable dangers. And, I only have a small area to seal, this stupid can could coat alot! It was 35 dollars, which I would have to pay. My other really big concern is how will this affect the fish? Is this toxic to the fish and the plants? Also, it only can be opened for 48 hours. All in all open to ALL cheaper and safer options. CHEAPER being the biggie. I dont want u all to think im cheap, Im definelty not, but this pond just BARELY got approved for my annual budget lol, and have MUCH else that could use the funds! (Also I have unlimited sources of silicon. Could this work if heavily applied? Thanks so much you are all muy mucho mucho bueno


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Also, could I use the "waterfall foam" from the local home depot to connect the liners? That is much cheaper as well!


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 27, 09 at 19:38

I have never used the splicing cement you mentioned and I'm sure it would be okay once it is cured. All the solvents dry off as the cement cures.
I have used splicing tapes [see link below for more information] and it works great if you are careful about applying it and do not create voids and bumps, that could cause leaks. Splicing tape could cost you more??!!
The instruction are there for you to peruse.
"Horton".

Here is a link that might be useful: Splicing tapes


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RE: [2] Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 27, 09 at 19:44

I forgot one thing. I have never heard of anyone using expanding foam to splice EPDM liner. I'm sure it would leak and probably will pull apart very easily.
"Horton"


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Thanks! I guess I will use it, just cure it first. The bummer is that I wont need all of it, and it only lasts 48 hours when opened. And the fumes.... ohh well guess Ill suck it up!


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Hi
Wouldn't this be the same as PVC cement used to hold pipes together?? Can get a can of that for under 4 bucks.
Try gluing a couple of pieces together to see if it works.. Silicone will not hold for sure . X foam is not waterproof .I use it to make planting pots out of .They not only drain, plants will root right through it lol
gary


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 28, 09 at 6:46

Pondmaster said,"Thanks! I guess I will use it, just cure it first."

I don't know what you mean by "curing it first"?
The cement will "cure", meaning "set-up", over a period of time. Anywhere from minutes to a few hours.
That is when the solvent in the cement become inert and should be harmless to you and your fish.
Check the instructions on the can, it should state the "cure time" there.

Wear a mask when you apply any heavy solvent cement, as it can leave you with a very bad headache and also the vapours are extremely bad to inhale into your body.

Gary, good question. I don't know if PVC cement would work on EPDM liner. I have a can of it in my shop and I'll try it out on a scrap piece of liner. I tend to think it would not be that easy? There has to be something in the cement that "bites" into the materials being glued together.
"Horton"


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

If the PVC cement did work, boy that would be great. by cure I mean to sit out for a while before I added water, thats all. Another question: if i go through with this, what can I do with the rest of it? Can this be used to glue the rocks and gravel on the sides of the liner? Or is sillicon better for this? I know that it is designed to hold 2 pieces of liner together, but would gravel, rock, sand, ect stick to it too? I dont want to waste it since it is so expenisve, but by the same token, I dont want it to just sit in my garage as an ticking time bomb (since it is so flammable!)


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Someone posted about using pvc cement to patch EPDM on the old AWGS Pond forum years ago. It worked when I had to patch a two inch hole in the side of my liner. So it would probably work if you had a wide enough overlap with no wrinkles.

I cut two circles of EPDM large enough to cover the hole and using the PVC cement, glued them over the hole on the inside and outside. After the patch cured, I ran a bead of silicone sealant around the perimeter, but that was probably overkill. This patch has been in place under water for six years with no leaks.


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Wed, Apr 29, 09 at 6:51

NMPG, thanks for the information.
"Horton"


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

We used regular silicone when we spliced two pieces of liner together to expand our pond. We were bonding old
pond liner to new pond liner.

After applying the silicone, we then cut a wide band of liner (about 4" wide) and applied it over the seamed area with more silicone (like you would apply a big band aide)

We waited the recommended time for the silicone to cure before filling the pond. I'm not sure, but I think it was about 3 days. This was about 10 years ago or longer, it's still holding up.

Joann


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RE: moreConnecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

I did a search and found more info on an old thread
We used 3M and Dupont silicone.
hope the link works. If not do a search, it was called ...
expanding an existing pond

Here is a link that might be useful: Expanding an existing pond.


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

Another option is to purchase liquid epdm. Used to be, you had to buy it by the gallon and that was expensive. However, its now offered in quart containers and is much cheaper. I've used it to resolve pond leaks in my liner over the last 6 years with great success and to patch pieces of liner together. I also used it in making the waterfalls for my pond as well. It can be messy to work with so you need to use gloves (just like with the foam) but if you put it in your freezer it can last as long as 2 weeks giving you time to check your work and make sure you coated everything properly.


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

I already used the stuff to join the liners, unfourtuently though, there is a hole that will not stay down in a bubble between the liners. I have much much left over, and am in the process of using it to attach rocks to the sides of the liner. In two words, bad idea! I thought rocks would stick easily, especially sand, but it doesnt! Sand fell right off without any sticking, and the rocks were painsticking hard to do. It is possible though. Hours and hours later, there is a stream of rocks glued to the side of the liner, and I am hoping it will look very natural when filled with water. Of course, algea will eventually strike making it look even more natural. My pump is not strong, but when the water builds up it shouldnt make much of a difference. One more thing: can i add goldfish to the stream?


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RE: Connecting Pond Liners... Toxic to Fish? Ripoff? Ideas?

  • Posted by horton 6 b Ontario. (My Page) on
    Sat, May 2, 09 at 7:12

It would not be a good idea to add goldfish to your stream, they will end up going over the waterfall into your pond anyway.
Goldfish like calm water and do not want to be fighting the flow of a stream continuously.

Thanks for posting the information re,sticking the sand and pebbles to the liner. It can be of use in the future, should anyone else ask about trying the same thing.

I always figure, if you don't try something new now and again, you will never know, for sure, if it works or not.

Passing on information on our triumphs or failures, is how we all learn.
"Horton"


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