To answer the question as to what happens to small aquatic life in a pond with a bottom drain it depends on where the bd goes. If it goes to a basket infront of a pump than most of the aquactic life that gets sucked up by the drain will die in the pump basket. It can live in the basket for short periods of time. If the drain goes to a sc than the aquatic life will be just fine as it would be in the pond. As for the quote this pond keeper has more problems than just a bottom drain.

I would agree that a bottom drain on a small pond is probably over kill. And yes no bottom drain is needed on a pond as I have said before but are nice to have.

Catfishsam, you say that "The BD people seem to think they are the only ones that are right and trot out their credentials to show us that they are superior to the rest of us." I don't think that I have put my credentials on the table at all and do not think that I am superior to anyone including you. You say "They question our right to disagree with them and are offended by our questions." In fact I have stated that everyone has the right to an opinion weather I agree or disagree with them. Lastly you state "I suspect that the only time a BD is really required if the pond owner is irresponsible and puts too many large koi in his pond? A little common sense would eliminate the need for a BD." As I have stated that a lot of things are not needed on a pond but they do make a pond better. Every year I clean about 100 ponds that do not have bottom drains but I have never had to clean a pond with a bottom drain. The amount of debri that comes out these ponds is huge. Yes I get paid to remove this debri and I thank people like you who don't believe in bottom drains. But it is very apparent that you have brought to a preconcieved idea about bottom drains that you wanted to express in this so called question in this thread. Which leads me to ask what is your motivation for this thread? That I don't know and I doubt that you will inform us this. You may give us some BS about it but we will not know what your credentials are or the reasons behind this thread and to that I can only guess.
Mike

Mike, Catfish's question was set up to antagonize the bottom drain people, and to get his constant insipid point across (drip drip drip)
The bottom drain people on this forum are just trying to help people to see it's not complicated and it works well on a large pond. Just common sense is all that is needed to figure this out, a child could understand it.
Hells bells Catfish, an outhouse serves the same purpose as indoor plumbing.

Lil, I have had many a baby fry get sucked into the bottom drain and make the journey
to the filter box. They get tossed back into the pond none the worse for wear. They soon learn to stay away from the bottom drain, just like they learn to stay away from the orfs until they are more than a mouthful :)
Joann
{{gwi:204261}}

CT (Cometose),
The "little guys" have the fate that some make it and some might not. It is better than the "little guys" getting sucked into or against the protective screen around a submersible pump intake.

The journey through a 3" or 4" pipe from a bottom drain is negotiated very well, generally. In our case it is time spent in a screening basket before the pump. They last for about a day. I take a quick visual check through the lid when it might be a problem.

We have a 2000 gal. pond with a bottom drain and five 20 inch Koi. We also have a 200 gal. pond without a bottom drain. The 200 gal. pond takes more maintenance time than the 2000 gal. pond. For me, cleaning the bottom of a pond isn't the part of the hobby that I enjoy. The bottom drain for our larger pond is the best single decision that we made in the construction.

Joann, actually my original posting was set up to get maximum participation. However, I was a little surprised at how defensive the BD people are?

I didn't actually have much of an opinion on bottom drains before this thread. Bottom drains are actually much worse than I thought.

Bottom drains kill baby fish. Of course, if they are lucky, them some of them survive to the filter box, if the there is a filter box? How cruel! Does the Humane Society know about this?

Now what is the main advantage, Joann, to the BD? It seems like it saves the pond owner an hour or less of maintenance a week. Now what does the pond owner do with this extra time? Go inside and drink beer and eat potato chips and watch soaps on the TV?

Of course, the pond owner might get dirty doing the maintenance. Wow! Then he might just have to take more than one shower a week. Perhaps the spouse and family might appreciate more than one shower a week.

Of course, since you are the wife, you probably kick your husband out there in the hot sun and make him clean the pond so you can be the couch potato? We wouldn't want you to miss any of your soaps, now would we Joann?

Just imagine how much weight you would lose if you just got 1 hour of exercise cleaning the pond each week. Why let your husband get all that beneficial exercise?

Now about that drip, drip, drip. In NY they get way too much rain. You don't even have to water your lawn or garden. However, here in Colorado we are going through a drought. Every drop of water is precious to us.

Now how much water do you have to add to your pond ever day? Now, Joann, be honest and don't claim it is due to evaporation. You know that drain is leaking? Drip, drip, drip.

As far as outhouses are concerned, I wouldn't know. We have inside plumbing.

Mike, do you really clean 100 ponds a year? I suspect that you hire some high school kids at minimal wage to do the work for you and then you take the credit and get the big bucks?

Franky I am surprised that you are for BDs since that is reducing the number of ponds you get to clean at a high price. Heck, switch sides and hire more of those kids. Don't you have any business sense?

"Bottom drains kill baby fish. Of course, if they are lucky, them some of them survive to the filter box, if the there is a filter box? How cruel! Does the Humane Society know about this?"
You've got to be kidding!..right?

mm I think I'll have a beer..

catfishsam,
I would be surprised if you have any friends (from the way you write). Maybe that is why you like to spend so much time cleaning your pond.

MIKE - I have been borderline about the necessity of a BD, but I have appreciated your descriptions/info about them. Much more informative than some on here who insist that a BD is the ONLY way.

Now, you partially answered a question that has bothered me about BD's and I would like the rest of the answer. A couple posts ago, you mention the small, bottom critters would die with a BD if there was a basket in front of the pump. However, if going to a settling chamber, you say they would be just fine. But wouldn't it be true that with "A SIMPLE TURN OF A VALVE" (a recurring theme here illustrating these ease of cleaning with a BD) you have now just sent all the bottom critters to their deaths anyway?

With my pond, I enjoy knowing the bottom critters are there also (such as our many tadpoles, dragon/damselfly larvae, various insects and other bottom-of-the-food-chain critters). So, does having a BD mean having no bottom critters? I am sure that those with Koi have no bottom critters anyway, so they just argue for bottom drains. For those that appreciate a little more diversity in their pond, is a BD not for them?

I am just curious of your thoughts on this angle of the discussion. Is what I have stated above an accurate assessment, or is it not necessarily the case. I touched on this subject just briefly much earlier in this thread while refuting a Surfhead rant, but it was not mentioned again until near the end here.

Rob

Rob,
How does the water exit your pond now? It has to leave somehow. These "critters" are just as vulnerable no matter what kind of exit. A bottom drain is no different than any other exit. If you are concerned about "bottom critters" (whatever they are?) you could screen a bottom drain just like anything else. If you have a submersible pump with a screened intake, the damage would be much more offensive to the "bottom critters" than a bottom drain.

curb1, I don't write to my friends. LOL

Are you one of those couch potatoes too lazy to do a little work?

CURB1 - I am sorry, but that has to be the most useless response I have seen on here! You have no idea what you are talking about. A bottom drain is COMPLETELY different than other exits or we wouldn't be having these debates and questions! Also, I gave a generalized description and examples of "bottom critters" not thinking that I was going to have spell out EVERYTHING for you (not that my question was meant for you).

Anyway, you CANNOT just screen a BD like anything else! If you screen a BD with a fine enough screen to keep out "critters" your BD wouldn't even be able to function. And, to say that "These critters are just as vulnerable no matter what kind of exit" shows a lack of understanding of other systems. Currently, I have a submersible pump, off the bottom of the pond, in a container wrapped in a quilt-batting type material as a mechanical filter. It filters the water effectively, but does nothing to the bottom (so the tadpoles/dragonfly larvae are not affected). The water then goes through another gravel filter in my waterfalls before returning to the pond. There is NO WAY that this setup is "more offensive" to critters than a BD, as it is not on the bottom. I also understand that this setup does not clean as thoroughly as a BD setup would, but I am happy with the results it has provided, thus I have the time to ask these less-pressing questions to those that understand.

I am sorry for being irritated by that response, but the more I read it, the more I have to say "WOW" :(

If MIKE or somebody else could provide a logical answer I would appreciate it, and I still think it is a valid question worth understanding.

Rob

Catfishsam, I was going to stay out of this post because I don't have a bottom drain and no experience to post about one. I do think they are a wonderful idea and when my Hubby and I retire, sell our home and move back home we will be hopefully, if all goes well, adding another pond with "a bottom drain".

The reason I must say something is because I'm slightly offended by the "since you are a wife" comment. You have got to be kidding. I work my butt off. Yes my hubby "helped" me put in the pond because I knew if I could just get one installed I could and would take care of it. Long story short, I clean my filters everyday by "my little ole girly self". I vac the pond, I care for the fish, I backflush the filters and I keep the pond sparkling and hopefully my fish healthy.

I would tell you how old I am too but I have reached the age when having to say it out loud still shocks me. So let me just say I'm a grandma, I suffer from a Heart condition and yet I still get out there and enjoy working with the pond. So I resent that you suggest just because someone has a shall we say a "Man" living in the house we send them out to do the work. Lol ask my Hubby where he is while I'm cleaning the pond. I'll give you a hint, ponding is my hobby, Golf is his.

Sorry to get long winded but I do hate it when people assume "the little woman doesn't pull her weight".

Rob, If a bottom drain is installed with a sc before the pump that small critters that go down the drain will end up safely in the sc. The bottom drain is not going to get all the bottom critters just some. When they end up in the sc they can be safely removed by net. The drain valve at the bottom of the sc when opened will run everything to the output of the drain pipe. At this point the water going out there could run thru a net and the critters removed from the debri and put back into the pond with no problem. Of course there is no reason that the sc has to be emptied often just like the bottom of the pond doesn't have to be cleaned often.
Mike

Good for you, tanzyva! I am glad to hear that at least one wife does her share of the work.

Rob,

You say, "Anyway, you CANNOT just screen a BD like anything else!"

You are wrong. You can screen it just like your present setup, and have just as inefficient setup as you now have. You would just have to clean your filtering material and suck the bottom clean as you now do. With a properly installed bottom drain to fit your situation, you could eliminate the biggest drawback (considered by many) of ponding, cleaning the bottom of the pond. If that is what you like to do, that is fine. Many people don't, and I wouldn't recommend your setup.

I too was shocked at such a revolting statement about women, Sam. Shame on you! Women on this forum muck it up on a regular basis.
Hey, why didn't this thread end at 100?
Lil

Could there possibly be a Mrs Catfishsam!?!

naahhh! I don't think so...

Joann

Soooo... this is what a pond bottom looks like with a bottom drain continually cleaning out the fish waste.

{{gwi:218637}}

If you have a small pond with small fish you can manage without one...If you have a big pond with big fish and don't have a bottom drain and 'don't think you need one' that's ok too! cause. "there are many roads to Rome!" ...
Hey, who said that???

Bottom drain 3 1/2 foot down...we had to place two milk crates over the BD cause the fish dug out all the stones from the lily pots, and spit them out all over the nice clean pond bottom.

{{gwi:193538}}

OK, consensus seems to be that a BD is a good idea for a new pond of 1000G or more. Thanks for all the info, and some of us need to realize that this sight is meant to be helpful for ponders, new(me) and old(Mike, Sam, et al). The arguments for and against are informative, the attacks are not. Let's all stay on an adult level, huh? My question, as a "tadpole": if I use a 3-4" BD, must I run the same diameter pipe all the way to the SC, or can it reduce before entering the SC? Just the info, please, no comments on other posters needed! Thanks!

MIKE - thanks for the response. That helps to answer my questions on the small wildlife aspect of BD's. Soooo, you can have a more wildlife based pond with a BD and minimal effect. I will consider that during future pond renovations.

CURB1 - I swear you don't put any thought into your responses, as they don't seem to make any sense.

Cliff & Joann - So that is what a pond bottom looks like completely void of bottom wildlife. Hmmmm, very clean! Well done!!! You always have great pictures! I remember you used to have a frog in your pond. Is it still around? Have you ever had tadpoles, or is that out of the question with a Koi pond? :)

I have found this to be an informative thread! I guess some of us just have completely different types of ponds, with different ideas of what we want to achieve. Apparently I have just been lucky with my good water quality from my "inefficient" filtration setup (modeled after the setups of some veteran ponders who used to post here). I did not realize my pond had any problems until the KOI ponders came in with all their contraptions for their high maintenance fish. For now, I think I will stick with all the diversity my pond has provided for our yard and our neighborhood. But, when the time comes for adding a bottom drain, I will know the ones to consult here who have provided some invaluable information.

Rob

Just for the record, we have a large frog population around our pond. We have dragon flies. We have tadpoles. And yes, we have a bottom drain. We don't have to vacuum the bottom of our pond. We don't have any in pond filtration that has to be pulled out and cleaned.

Thanks CURB, that is the the type of info that I am trying to get that will help in my decision to add a BD in the future. I needed some answers that were not Koi related.

Rob

Rob, yes we have dragonflies, and frogs. Do you remember my frog "Budweiser" or "Micky?" Both had to get re-located to the lake by our house cause they got so big they were eating our birds that would come down pondside for a pond drink...I kid you not!
Joann

We have tried tad poles many times, however the Orfs get them, not the bottom drain.

I'll get caught up on my reading later but Mike, given that the approx surface area of the bottom of my pond will be 350 sq feet (high estimate 18 X 18) how big of settle chamber and how big of a pump given 12000 gallon size pond? I have no clue so your WAG is better then mine.
K

I have been gone for a few day (in laws are in town) but would like to back track for a moment. I know it has little to do with bottom drains but I would like to discuss what Mike said about ORP as well as a rude little comment by lillly.

First off, lilly, what do YOU know about ORP??? did you even know what it was before this post?

Mike, there is nothing wrong with a ORP of 300 to 350 or even 400, in fact it is ideal and it is not the least bit dangerous for the koi. In fact ORP readings above 300 will IMPROVE their health and the ORP should be raised when koi are sick. Oxidation from PP will bring the ORP up to 450 or higher and that should not be sustained for long periods of time.

I have included an artilce by Roddy Conrad on ORP. A well known chemist and koi lover who has written several articles for Koi USA and others.

Surfhead, Roddy has a small overstocked pond. He uses chemicals like PP to clear his water cause he admits water in NC is expensive, and he is very overstocked, that is his reason for using chemicals. I have nothing against Roddy and think he's a like-able fellow, however I am against recommending the use of chemicals to maintain a fish pond, when it cam be accomplished without any danger to the fish by just using common sense, adequate filtration, frequent water changes and don't overstock.

Chemicals are not for the average backyard ponder. They can end up killing your fish. Another well know Doctor ended up killing two pond loads of fish, and he has more experience with these chemicals (PP and Ozone) than the average backyard ponder.
It amazes me how complicated koi ponders make keeping a koi pond healthy. Lucky for me, we built our pond in 1997 before Al Gore invented the internet, or we would have never built a pond after what some of the koi people (I hesitate to use the word elitists)tout as the only means to maintain good healthy koi is with PP...
If you follow the teachings of Roddy Conrad so well, ask him what he thinks of Cliff and Joann's fish keeping, he was written about our successful chemical free pond keeping on the NI board. It can be done without chemicals, we have been doing to for for 9 years.
Remember when reading anything it is just one person opinion, even what I am writting here is just one persons opinion.
Joann

Is this the longest running thread - just courious as a newcomer. It's been enjoyable, so I'm not complaining.

Just for the record.... I'm a female, I'm not married. I had no male help digging and building my 1000g pond. This includes all the rocks and filters. Being male is WAY overrated!!

Joann,
I know about Roddy's methods, I have incorporated some of them into my own routine, but not to the extent that he does. And Roddy has said numerous times that this works for HIM and is not necessarily what others should do. But if you look at his fish and what he has done with them, you can't deny what he does works very well in his pond. But my point was not to debate Roddy's methods with PP in this thread, but rather I was using that link to help explain what ORP is and what the proper levels actually are. Mike said that a high ORP will oxidize the fish gills, and that is true, but not at the levels he mentioned, this requires a much higher ORP. An ORP of 300 to 350 is VERY good for the fish....that is the ONLY point I wanted to make here.

As for what Roddy said about your pond, I have no idea, I don't visit the NI board. But I do know that you have a very beautiful pond with some gorgeous fish, so whatever you are doing also works for you.

mckool, I don't know if this is the longest running thread? It may be recently.

It could have been much shorter if more people had agreed with me. LOL

catfishman -

I thought everyone WAS agreeing with you. After reading all those post from ponders with leaking bottom drains and critters meeting an untimely demise; I would be afraid to install a bottom drain as well.

Oh that's right, the evidence that supports your side of the discussion was speculation and unsubstantiated reference to posts on other forums. Definitely sounds like you cleared this matter up for everyone. Do you want to tackle the rocks/ no rocks quandary next?

In reality, I do enjoy your sense of humor and satire. At least you got people thinking.

Personally, I like my bottom drain and plan to keep it. However I can also see that they aren't the "be-all and end-all" in this hobby. All ponders have a different idea of the perfect pond, and should choose those tools which help them meet that goal.

It seems to me, after reading all this, it all boils down to how much work you're willing to do. Some would like the ease of going out & turning a handle, while others get pleasure from doing the cleaning themselves. Whether it be vacuuming the bottom, scooping it, whatever, etc.

I'm in the process of planning a small expansion & started freaking out after reading about BD, but I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't bother me doing the weekly (or whatever) cleaning .... of the filters & bottom if it needs it, etc. I think, for now at least, that I'll stick with no BD.
Thanks

Hmmmm...wonder if Catfishsam is kin to our dear Webfeeet... :)

I can't wait to get a bottom drain. This crap is piling up faster than flies on a carcass. 16,000 gallons and 6' deep is not easy to clean w/ a long handled net.

Wow. This has been an interesting thread to read.

I do not have a decorative fish pond, but do plan on one, although it won't be large enough to support Koi.

However, I plan a bottom drain because I AM an experienced aquarist and can't understand why anyone would NOT want a bottom drain in any pond or large tank.

The entire purpose of filtration is to clean and circulate and if there is an easier and more efficient means than draining it from the bottom and returning it to the top after it's been run through a filter, I'd like to hear of it.

I'm fairly novice, as I've only had ponds for 4 years, but here is what I've found....

My early, smaller pond (300 gallons) had no bottom drain. It had many hoses and chambers and filter pads to clean, etc. It was a hassle and of all my time spent near the pond, 60% of that time was cleaning. My Ammonia and Nitrites measured zero, but I constantly battled nitrates.
For the past year and a half, I have had a 3000 gallon pond with bottom drain. The plumbing is simple and the pond looks neater and more natural because its plumbing is all hidden. I spend about 15 minutes a week removing debris and I only have to get one arm wet up to the elbow. This equals less than 10% of my total pond time. So, I have more positive mental associations about my pond, because I spend more time relaxing and enjoying it than I do 'working' on it. Ammonia, Nitrite, AND nitrates are now measuring zero.

I originally installed a pond for beauty, relaxation, and benefit to wildlife. I find the bottom drain setup is better for me. I have enough work in my life already. I built my pond for enjoyment, not more work. I got tired of all the hoses and filter pads and siphoning. This is easier. It took about a day of work to install the bottom drain while building the pond. But I figure that over the 20 year life of the pond, that one day's work will save me much more in cleaning time.

I also remember that in the days when I had to clean the pump strainer and filter pads twice weekly, I couldn't leave for a week long vacation without worrying about my pond. Now, I clean everything and double check it before I leave, and go on vacation for a week. Everything is fine when I get back. That couldn't happen with my old setup without the bottom drain.

I have one fish, who isn't even the smallest one, who I always find in the brush filter box. He seems to be the only one dumb enough to go into my 4" bottom drain over and over again. There is no cover or grill on my BD. I just take him out and toss him back in the pond. He's growing well, and is healthy. Maybe he's a rush-junkie and just enjoys the ride.

We had thousands, possibly millions of tadpoles this year, and our yard and garden is now hopping with juvenile toads, so having a bottom drain must not kill many of them.

My pond must not leak, because the water level doesn't change unless it is hot and dry for a long time, and then it goes down about an inch a week. In the spring, fall, and winter, the water level doesn't change unless I change it myself.

If a person wants a more natural pond that includes no fish , or just a few small fish and many plants, a bottom drain isn't necessary. There will be muck to clean, but the plants won't mind if you don't. If a person wants more or larger fish, and wants to control how much muck accumulates without lots of time and effort, bottom drains are the way to go.

Friends,
After years of daydreaming of having a "nice" pond, I started researching and found this fourm.After only 5 hours of reading I told my wife..FORGET IT.. we're not having a pond.That thought only lasted a minute though.Trying to understand this BD thing I'll ask my dumb question. Is the BD used as a periodic maintenance tool when you want to clean the bottom of your pond?? Possibly using a shut-off valve going to the main filter or something like that?? I'm just trying to figure out all the pieces of the puzzle before I start. I plan to install a 6'x8' pond with a waterfall and 6' long lead in stream. Any help for a first timer?? The posts are great. Thanks for any help, Gary

Gary, the bottom drain continually cleans the pond water 24/7

Think of an in the ground pool, the water exits the pool from a bottom drain and goes through a filter system and re-enters the pond. Same with a bottom drain, the water continually flows through the BD to filter tubs (trapping a lot of waste in the process) and re-enters the pond. It is also beneficial to have the entire pond slightly tilted toward the bottom drain so waste that sinks will naturally flow towards the BD. You also need a rock-less bottom for the BD to work properly. A few big rocks scattered here and there would be ok, but not a mass of rocks that accumulates gunk.
I believe you are the same Gary that signed my guestbook yesterday...here is an updated version of our DIY system.
Don't stress of the pond building process it is just common sense and a strong back for digging :)
In my opinion the bottom drain is the single most important thing you can do for your pond, everything else you can add later, for instance skimmer, biological pond, streams etc... Joann

Our System...
Our system is a gravity fed system which means:
The filter tubs are buried in the ground.

The water in the tubs is at the same level as the pond water.

The entire pond bottom is slightly tilted toward the bottom
drain so that any accumulation of fish waste that settles
on the bottom naturally gravitates toward and through the drain. We do daily
water changes by adding 10 to 15 minutes of fresh water every day and letting it run
over the pond sides. Fortunately for us we dont have to use de-clor. We estimate that these water
changes amount to about 30-35% water changes in a week.
We also once or twice a week lay the hose on the pond bottom to help sweep any accumulated
yuck toward and to the bottom drain ( this way mulm doesnt have a chance to accumulate if you keep this up on a regular basis). If you do this you have to make sure you have an anti-siphon valve, to prevent the pond water from going back into the drinking water..

The dirty pond water is continually exiting the pond and going through filter tubs, the first tub has three compartments, each compartment has various filter material, to filter the water and trap fish waste etc.

After the water goes through the three tubs it travels underground to a separate biological pond that is filled with vegetation.

The water enters this biological pond from tubing that is on top of a waterfall, the water spills down the waterfall and
travels through the biological pond getting scrubbed by all the vegetation in it's path.

The water then exits the biological pond, travels underground again (18 feet) and re-enters the pond from
under the small wood dock in back of the pond.

This process is continually in force 24/7.

There is three filter tubs daisy chained together. The first compartment in the first tub gets cleaned every 5 to 14 days (the clarity of the pond water governs this task if the water loses its crispness we will clean it more often. In spring every few days may be necessary cause we are surrounded by oaks and all the pollen that falls into the pond and sinks turns the water a tea color if we don't keep on top of it. Once the fist spring pollen droppings are over every five to 14 days is sufficient.

We use various filter material, quilt batting is one of them. As I said previously, the first tub is divided into three compartments, each compartment has filter material wrapped around a divider. The filter material in the first compartment is what gets cleaned every fifth day. My head groundskeeper fills 5 gallon tubs with pond water and rinses
the filter material up and down, then waters all the plants with this water, he re-fills the 5 gallon tubs and keeps rinsing the material until it is clean. This takes 45 minutes.
Now he could just rinse the filter material by hosing it off this would take only five minutes, but it is all how you look at things....to him it is therapeutic and he enjoys doing so. And since he is an avid gardener he enjoys walking around watering all the plants with this water in the tubs.

We also have underground sprinklers so watering the plants by hand with this pond water is not necessary but to him it's enjoyable. My point being that with a bottom drain you could clean out the filter material every fifth day with a hose and have it done in ten minutes.

The advantage to the bottom drain, is the pond never needs vacuuming, never needs to be emptied in early spring for cleaning.

We also have a skimmer that is under the little dock in the back, this only traps the stuff that floats on the surface, in early spring when the trees are dropping their pollen the basket needs to be emptied 2 to 3 times a day. In summer we don't even have it hooked up because we use the pump that operates the skimmer for additional waterfalls. The skimmer is only used spring and fall.

I hope I covered everything. The bottom drain is very effective in a large pond. In my opinion, it is the single most important thing you can do for your pond, everything else you can improve upon later. We added the skimmer and biological pond the second year.

It is a system that has served us well for 9 years. Our pond is always clean and has crisp water to view the fish, which are the main attraction. We do not use a UV light because
this filter system works so well, we dont have the need for UV light.

I, as well as many others always tout the merits of the Bottom Drain, and a rock less pond floor so that the waste doesn't get trapped in between the rocks. The only part of our pond that has rocks is the 4 x5 section in front of the lower pond deck. These rocks are hosed off and turned to expose a clean side usually every two weeks, usually a large amount of crud is released from these rocks when the beach is cleaned every two weeks...when we hose the beach, the crud is released into the pond and flows toward the bottom drain.

Joann,
thanks for all the time you spent on your reply. The reference to the pool made it all seem to make sense. I appreciate all the detail and am on to the next piece of the puzzle. Thanks, Gary

Lets say I'm installing a BD with a SC... if the pond is 4' deep, and I pipe straight and level into a 55 gal drum. Where should the output flow into the drum. Do I make the drum equal to the water, or does the drum need to be buried 8 ft down. I'm pretty sure I can have the output of the BD shoot into the SC as long as the water level is above the SC's water level.
Also should I pump the water from there into the waterfall w/ filters or maybe leave it be and use the water to water my plants and just dechlor new water.

If anyone has a good site w/ pictures. I stink at reading, but like pictures..
TIA - chris

I can't believe this thread is still going and going and going. LOL

It is because the first post was so very wrong. People like to take exception to fundamentally flawed statements. That is why it keeps going. Bottom drains are an important part of most ponds.

LMAO!!! drip drip drip....as the catfish man would say!!!

{{gwi:199765}}

Sam, you crack me up! You've asked this question before, I think just to get folks riled up...but the good thing is that folks like me get to hear all sides of the issue, to help us plan our ponds. Last summer, I did a lot of reading before putting in a bottom drain. I DIY'd it, with a toilet flange and 4" PVC...so far, no leaks! How do I know? Water level stays constant,except with hotter,drier weather, which I assume is evaporation. (Otherwise, the water loss would be constant)
After all the reading I did, I came to the conclusion that a bottom drain would make things easier...and I want maximum enjoyment for minimum work! That's what I've got! :o)
~Kevin

kponder, this thread was from last summer, it got dragged up again.
It's a good read for all the newbees researching to build a new pond. Lots of good tried and true information in this thread.

Joann

kponder, I have to say that my experience with bottom drains is limited.

When I got into ponding over 20 years ago, bottom drains hadn't been thought of. So I started out without a bottom drain and never missed it or needed it. My fish have usually been healthy and my ponds have stayed clean.

Now that is not completely true. I did have a bottom drain once in my pond. I was using this old cast iron bathtub for a small pond. Frankly I couldn't tell that bottom drain did much, except leak. LOL

cliff_and_joann, may I say that your pond looks wonderful. The pictures are relaxing just to look at. I have a 150 gal fiberglass pond [obvisouly no bottom drain]and cleaning the leaves and muck is a royal pain. I know there are many types of ponds and filter systems but a high priority has to be ease of maintenance. In many cases a bottom drain would seem very benefical.

wow, a blast from the past!!!!

Did you guys see that link I posted on the aquarium experiment creating a mini rock bottom/skimemr only pond? a lot of muck for only 10 gallons...loads of plants too! clear water, 0 ammonia, all "seemed" well until he siphoned the water from the rocks.

Blast from the past SIX years later now! WOW.

I was researching SC's b/c I need to add one...and here we are. LOL Lonemountain is the one who educated me on BD's and my Ultima 20,000 and Mike in IL helped make it happen. Now the SC and my experiment should be complete.........for now ;)

look what the cat dragged up after all these years!
I wonder where catfish is?

6-29-13

Actually, it was very interesting as Ive been debating whether to install, or retrofit one on my 700 gal pond.

I think the gist of it - which the discussion finally got to after 100+ posts - was that it was pretty much essential for the over 1000 gal pond, and pretty much not essential for the under 500 gal pond (vacs, partial water changes, pump on bottom can accomplish the same thing).

500-1000 use your best judgement!