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kmarcel

Question to Cliff and Joann about expanding pond

Karen Marcely
10 years ago

Joann, I posted last week about expanding my pond and said that I may ask a question or two as I proceed with this project. One that struck me and I assume it must not have been an issue for you as you have done this successfully.

I understand that I dig the hole first next to my existing pond then remove the rocks from where I will join the two liners, remove some dirt about 8-10â below that bridge area to join the liners, etc. My concern is will there be enough give in the existing liner to lower it? WonâÂÂt it be pulled taut from the original installation and all the other surrounding rocks that are on the edge? IâÂÂm nervous about getting that far and not being able to stretch the existing liner down the 8 or 10â to join to the new liner.

Maybe IâÂÂm imagining this all wrong, as this has been successfully done by yourself and other people and IâÂÂm sure my pond installation would have been done the same as everyone elseâÂÂs. DonâÂÂt know if question makes any sense.

Comments (14)

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    I'll answer you the best I can until I speak to Cliff about this.
    firstly, your has rocks on top of it on the ledge, right?

    When you remove the rocks -- you are working from the outside, so
    you begin to dig down your 10 inches or so, as well as the desired
    width you want. Your biggest concern should be to leave enough slack
    on both sides (slack in the old liner and the new liner, so that when
    you fill the new addition with water the pressure of the water doesn't
    pull the liner apart -- or you'll be starting over.)
    After cleaning first use the special line tape that is sold
    for this purpose...to bond the two liners together,
    then fold the liner back a little ( as if you we're making a z
    Then Cut some liner strips to use like a brand aid -- on both sides of the liner..apply the bandaid with plenty of regular silicone on both sides of the
    liner. If your piecing a liner on a flat surface it's easy, working with a compound curve with water on one side is a challenge, so you need
    patience and have to wait the recommended time for the silicone to cure --
    which I think is three days...
    Hey, if it leaks after you do it, then you have to start over, so take your time
    and have patience.

  • Karen Marcely
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Joann, that is correct I have rocks on the top along the ledge. Good point about the slack so when the water fills it doesn't pull apart. I just wasn't sure if there would be enough slack in the old liner to drop it down the 8 to 10 inches because it has all the rocks along the edge around the entire pond. So it's not like you can pull a little extra liner to have slack, especially with the weight of the water.

    One other question, does it matter which liner overlaps which? Do I put the new liner over the top of the old or visa versa, or does it not matter?

    Thanks so much for seeing my post and answering! I hope to start this job in the next couple of weeks. Maybe do another post at some point calling out to you.

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    How much liner is under the rocks? We didn't chop our liner close to
    the edge when we did our pond. I'm not sure why we didn't at the time,
    but it was a good decision as we made little bump outs all over
    the place the second year, which made it look more natural.
    As a matter of fact, our entire beach section
    which is about 5 feet x 4 feet is a bump out.

    No, it doesn't matter which way you seem it, whatever is easier.

    Pull the rocks away from the section where you plan on piecing it,
    and see how much extra liner you have. If it's cut close you may have
    to go to plan B.

    I'll look for a video that shows the dog leg -- which is the new section.

  • Karen Marcely
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Joann, It is cut past the rocks, however the rocks are very large. We had the liner professionally replaced last year because it was old and had a leak. I know crazy that I didn't think to do this then. Probably budget at the time since it wasn't a DIY job. Then I read your post on how you did this and now I can't get the idea out of my head.

    Anyhow they put some large rocks on the edge around the pond. The rocks are about 19" and the liner is cut an inch or two beyond the edge of the rocks. It looks like I have 20 inches of edge that the liner is on under those rocks.

    Do you think that would be enough liner to work with? Also, that would be the area where I dig out the dirt underneath to the 8-10 inch drop for overlapping and seaming, correct?

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    I just asked Cliff, he said that amount of liner sounds more than sufficient.
    He said, he only dug down about 8 inches...don't cut any liner, just
    overlap it, tuck it, fold it under....whatever you want, but leave the excess
    liner...
    Like I said, the worst that can happen is you don't get a tight seam
    and it leaks, and then you have to start over...the good part is the water
    will only drop 8 inches and the fish will still be safe.

    I'll try and get some pics of the seam today.

    ...also, I can't stress enough -- waiting the allotted time for the silicone to cure
    before refilling the pond.

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    I tried to get a shot from the dock of the seam, but the glare on the
    water was too bright...here's a shot from the deck side.

    Under the orange koi is where it is pieced.

  • Karen Marcely
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Joann, what is the width where it's seamed, looks like less than 2 feet? Probably a good idea to keep the seam area as small or narrow as possible, that way there's less seam to worry about leaking. Do you have another pump and filter in the dog leg?

    I'm trying to get all my details planned before I start digging, that way maybe all the little (hopefully little) problems I run into I will have already thought about.

    I really appreciate how much you have so nicely answered all my questions! You've been a great help.
    Karen

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    The width is about 18 inches...it looks narrower because the rocks on
    the edge overhang a bit.
    We have a small waterfall in the area (the new addition is called
    the dog leg) it's 6 foot wide x 13 foot long x about 2 feet deep.
    On the other side (the old part of the pond) that section is 3 1/2 feet
    deep.

    here is a video of the dog leg, you can see the fish swimming
    in and out of the dog leg.

    once you get there, there are many
    other videos you can study.

    Here is a link that might be useful: dog leg video

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    Karen, here is a pic from today, the old part is on the right and
    the new part is on the left-- the seam is covered with rocks.

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    Cliff took a video of the pieced section.
    I mentioned that where it is pieced he covered it
    with rocks...for this video he removed the rocks.
    What you see in the liner. He said to tell you that
    where it is pieced its about 10" wide (under the liner)
    He did this for a sturdy foundation.

    Here is a link that might be useful: pond pieced

  • Karen Marcely
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Joann, thanks so much for the info and the video with the seam. I was really enjoying all your other videos as well. Love the wildlife and all the birds singing.

    10" width makes sense. I hadn't really thought about that so good to know. Do you keep rocks over the seam just for aesthetic purposes or I assume it also helps protect the seam? So if you dropped down 8" at the time of seaming, then the rocks bring the actual water height above the seam even less? Seems the fish have no problem going back and forth though.

    Thanks again. I can't wait to start this. My husband wants to wait until Labor Day but I'm ready now as I think we're going to need more time that a 3 day weekend.

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    yes, rocks just for aesthetic purposes...

    As you can see now the liner has developed a mulm, so the silicone
    lines are no longer visible. It looks to be about 8 of water...He measured
    the width and it is 18 inches...btw, he just told me the seam is actually not on top of the 10 inch drop, it more into the dog leg side of the pond.
    He said he taped it there -- cause he had enough liner to do so.

  • Karen Marcely
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks Joann, I feel I have a pretty detailed plan to proceed with this project.

    I spoke to one of the employees at our local pond company who made a comment that it probably won't last and he wouldn't chance doing it. So for some more rearrurance I called a couple websites that sell the Firestone liners and they both said absolutely that it works and people do it all the time. So between your instructions and theirs I'm feeling pretty confident.

    I'll have to take some pictures as I go along with this project.

  • cliff_and_joann
    10 years ago

    Well, we pieced ours together the spring of 1998...Yes, take pics
    as you do the job, I wished we had taken pics. It would make it a lot
    easier explaining it, but in 1998 I didn't have a digital camera.
    ...How things have changed. :)