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| Hi Everyone,
Thanks in advance for any input or suggestions you can offer. It seems I've run smack dab into cardinal rule one of pond construction: It will always need to be bigger and better! So after constructing my first pond this year, I'm already making plans to add on and expand next spring. My question is would it even be worth my time to dig a 4 foot deep section in the new pond addition to over-winter fish? According to the local Extension agent, the frost line for my area is 42" and my fiance - who is an avid angler - informs me that is common for the ice to be 3 feet thick on the lakes around here. Is it really possible to keep a pond open in the extreme winters we get? The weather is not always that horrible around here but usually in January there will be a 2 week cold snap. Last winter we had 10 consecutive days where the temperature did not go above 0 degrees F(don't even get me started on the wind chill - everything shut down around here for 3 straight days, no work, no school, emergency, utility services only available!) Would it just be smarter (and less headache) to just plan to buy a cheap-o 55 gallon aquarium from craigs list and bring my fish in every winter? Thanks! Jenny |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by jennyb5149 zone 3b Northern WI (My Page) on Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 20:52
| *ahem* I've just been corrected. After reading him my post, my fiance says it is not "common" for lakes to get 3 feet of ice around here but it has been known to happen rather. He says the norm for ice on the big lakes in this area is 2 1/2 feet thick. He wanted to make sure I didn't misquote him! Well, color me corrected!! :-) |
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| Last year we hit -25°F (at night) and will routinely see two to three weeks when the temperatures do not go above 32°F. That being said...the thickest amount of ice I've ever recorded in my pond is 18". Pond depth at the deepest is ~36". With our roads kept open throughout the winter (no snow cover) it is not unheard of to have frost depths down to 8 feet near the roads or around fire hydrants. But even a modest amount of snow has a significant effect on frost penetration. Having an additional foot or so in pond depth in your zone (depth of four feet) would be worth it unless you want to take all fish inside for the winter. Incidentally I only use a bubbler during the winter, no heater. Some cover their ponds with a structure and clear plastic. This is also an alternative to making it deeper. However, the structure must be able to withstand wind and snow loads. If your pond is very large then such an approach becomes quite difficult. We've had years when we've received single snowfalls on the order of three feet; in 1998 we had about 1" of ice all over everything - 'twas a bit of a mess. As a result I don't try to put a structure over our pond (length is ~20 feet by ~18 feet wide). Just some thoughts. I'm sure others will have alternatives for you to consider. Here's a picture out our back window in the middle of winter. ---David |
Here is a link that might be useful: Pond in winter
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| Hi Jenny, Zone 4 here, on the mid-west prairies of MN where the windchill is brutal. I shut down all but 1 small pond, 5'x 5.5'x 28" deep that I run a small livestock tank heater in. It only kicks in when it's below 40F. I overwinter 10 to 14 goldfish/comets (3" to 8") and submerge all my hardy plants in it. I cover 2/3's of it with a sheet of styrofoam-type insulation to stop the wind effect, and the tank heater keeps a hole open, about 12" even when it's below zero for days at a time. Snowfall definately helps insulate , but we've had a couple winters with very little snow. My fish have survived, but I lost quite a few one year, before I got my own system down. Yes, 4' would definately make overwintering fish easier. You'll still need to keep a small hole open in the ice, either by heater, de-icer, air bubbler, or pump. Also, the year I tried to bring all my 27 one inch babies inside I managed to kill all but 2 in an aquarium with filter/air/etc. I'm not an aquarium person, but I tried my best and failed miserably :( Just my 2 cents, S |
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- Posted by squirelette 3 Ab (My Page) on Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 10:58
| I run a stock tank heater through the winter as my pond is only about 2 feet deep. During the coldest days I will get about 4-6 inches of ice but the areas around the heater and waterfall stay open. I have friends with large dugouts that are deeper than 4 feet who keep goldfish all winter but they do lose some every year. I have gone for hardy marginal plants around the pond and they winter well, the more tender ones I make sure are below the freezing level of the pond and they winter over as well. I would set up a buubler and consider buying a tank heater for back up incase the pond begins to ice over or if your pond is smaller running the tank heater all winter, although the electricity costs can add up. My pond is about 5 feet by 7 feet and the heater works quite well for me |
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- Posted by jennyb5149 3b (My Page) on Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 15:41
| Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'm thinking that I will definitely dig out a 4' hole in the new pond addition. In fact, I'm thinking that since the labor is cheap (i.e. I'm doing all the digging), I could even go a bit deeper. It also sounds like a bubbler - and even a heater - is a definite must. Also, it probably would be a good idea to cover the pond in some fashion. Though, as David pointed out it needs to be sturdy enough to withstand some heavy snow loads. Right now I fashioned some cobbled together contraption with some split rail fencing I had laying around and a couple tarps to make a "tent" over the pond. I wasn't too particular since there is nothing in the pond to keep alive but it certainly gave me some appreciation for how sturdy these structures need to be! Thanks again everyone! As an aside - I'm curious....haven't most people on this forum dug their own ponds? My neighbors all thought I seriously had lost my mind when they saw just me, a shovel, a wheelbarrow and a big hole (or the money pit as I affectionately started calling it) emerging in my back yard! Nobody could believe I was doing it without the aid of some heavy equipment!! |
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- Posted by mantorvillain z4bMN Dodge (willbeane2000@yahoo.com) on Sat, Nov 7, 09 at 7:28
| Digging it yourself assures its done the way you want it done.....not to mention the exercise if you proceed at a reasonable pace. That said, I've seen some pix of ponds of a size it would have taken me 5 years to dig out by myself...not to menton getting rid of all the materials excavated...LOL. The only section of my 3 tier system I keep open is the botom which has @ 6'X13' surface area and the mid section down to 4'. I don't cover but do keep a bubbler going with a tank heater in place but not plugged in incase we get one of those really prolonged super cold spells which don't seem to occur as frequently any more (please don't let me be hexing us this year!). My goldies and minnnows just migrate into the low area among the pots of lilies which are lowered into that section and have done fine (so far). Will |
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- Posted by jennyb5149 z3b WI (My Page) on Mon, Nov 9, 09 at 12:20
| Thanks Will! That is a great idea! I was hesitant about the stock heater because of electricity bills. But, I do like the idea of having it there and plugging in during the really cold snaps that tend to come in January. If I dig a 4-5' section in the addition, it probably will stay open with a bubbler or pump with the outlet aimed towards the surface the rest of the time. You did make me smile when I read you have minnows in your pond. My fiance has been threatening for awhile to turn my pond into his own personal bait tank. In fact, it was holding a bunch of fathead minnows and leeches last month until I told him it was time to shut the pond down for the winter. Figures, we'd have a string of 50 to 60 degree days forecast for the next week or so! *sigh* Gotta love living in the northland! |
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| Here's an Iowan's 2 cents worth: We have a 15' x 20' pond with 3 waterfalls on the north side of the house, totally exposed to any-and-all winter weather. Using a (Walmart) bubbler full time keeps a hole about 2' open at all times. We keep a floating tank heater in the water close to the bubbler's open hole but don't plug it in unless temps are going to be below zero for more than a week-that's our ace in the hole for emergency use only. Our pond is 3' deep except for an area under one of the waterfalls that dips down to 4'. The bubbler is used on the opposite end and is close to a 2' shelf - we didn't want to bother the goldfish at the deep end with the bubbles. I'm going to raise the bubbler line up to about 20" from the surface this winter, I'm thinking it'll keep more surface open that way. Tried running the waterfalls thru the winter but between the ice forming from the cold temps and the north winds blowing the water out of the streams, we don't even blink an eye now when we turn off the falls in November. We can drive to Sioux Falls if we want to see water running under falls in the winter - LOL!! All 50+ fish survive every year. For the first few years of the pond, we did the "keep them in a stock tank in the garage thru the winter" thing until our BEST friends refused to have a "Fish Moving and Dinner Nite". No amount of food or beverages would get them to help catch the fish and carry buckets from the pond to the garage @#@# Here's to a balmy winter and early spring!!! |
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| I live about an hour south of Squirlette and have never had any success overwintering fish in my pond which is 4 ft deep in the deep end. Pond is 8 ft across there and 2500 gals. I bring my fish indoors every fall and take them back out in the spring. Squirlette lives in the city which is probably warmer than where I am. The ice on my pond freezes to 18" thick at least depending on the winter. It's not the ice so much but that our winters here are so lond. Ice doesn't leave the pond until mid-April and my pond is frozen now with over 2" thick ice. I tried stock tank heater one year but its just too expensive to run. I like seeing my fish all winter and it's just less expensive for me. Have never lost a fish doing this in 7 years of ponding. So I guess bottom line is not only ice but the length of your winters and expense of running heaters. |
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| I live in zone 5a just at the border of zone 4 in upper NY state. We usually also see -20F days, though the last years it did not go below -15F. I have only a small pond with approximately 7x4 ft surface, 18 in deep, with a few large goldfish. All the years I have covered the pond with a basketball back plate, 2x4s and old shower curtains, no aerator, no heater. All my fish always survived. Some years there was no ice on the surface under the cover. In recent years I bring the 4-7 goldfish inside into a 55 gal aquarium, no heater, no filter, but with bubbler, to let my grandsonn feed them. (I exchange 20% of the water every month) To let all fish survive outside over winter you need to have the pond clean to prevent buildup of gases from decaying leaves, etc. under the ice. |
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- Posted by catalinagrey MN 3/4 (My Page) on Tue, Jan 5, 10 at 18:18
| I too live in MN. We get winter temps of -20 to -30 at night with daily highs of -10 or maybe zero. I thought it would be too difficult to keep the pond open with a heater, so I took my fish out. This is my 2nd year with a pond. Last year I brought my 8 10 cent goldfish inside and put them in an aquarium. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fish in Winter
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- Posted by frugalgardener 5 (My Page) on Thu, Jan 7, 10 at 23:28
| Catalina, You need to insulate those tanks. Wrap the sides of the tanks and that will help hold the heat in from the lamp. I'd build a cardboard box around them and then fill it with packing peanuts (but don't use the ones that dissolve when wet). Even wrapping the sides of the tanks with layers of newspapers would help. Then if you still needed more heat, you could add aquarium heaters to the tanks. sam |
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